Ohio! Citizens of the heartland, ye shall read this here thread!

[destrekor]

http://www.pccoh.com/

http://pccoh.com/index.php?c=amendment&p=language

Columbus Dispatch Article

If you are a citizen of Ohio, and someone asks you to sign a petition, please sign it.
This needs to get on the ballot for all of Ohio to vote for.

Better yet, if you wish to collect some signatures, the petition is available on the PCC website.

Site is kind of campy, and I have no idea what other things they happen to support. Don't really care either way, I just read the article in a copy of the Dispatch and had to relay this message. I agree with 100% of what they are petitioning for right now, and glad to see it at least has gotten to that level. I hope to see it on the next ballot.

 

[NeoV]

from the article:

Among other things, the Ohio Sovereignty Amendment would allow juries to nullify laws; expand the right to bear arms and maintain militias; permit recall of elected officials by petition signatures alone; ban federal enforcement of laws except through a county sheriff; and require all public school operations through the 12th grade be regulated only at the local district level.

No thanks

please tell me you are kidding...

 

[destrekor]

from the article:

Among other things, the Ohio Sovereignty Amendment would allow juries to nullify laws; expand the right to bear arms and maintain militias; permit recall of elected officials by petition signatures alone; ban federal enforcement of laws except through a county sheriff; and require all public school operations through the 12th grade be regulated only at the local district level.

No thanks

please tell me you are kidding...

please tell me you are kidding...

 

[CallMeJoe]

As a current resident of South Carolina and Native Son of the South, I must advise you that "State's Sovereignty" can easily be taken too far...

 

[Kappo]

As a current resident of South Carolina and Native Son of the South, I must advise you that "State's Sovereignty" can easily be taken too far...

^^^

 

[Joepublic2]

from the article:

Among other things, the Ohio Sovereignty Amendment would allow juries to nullify laws; expand the right to bear arms and maintain militias; permit recall of elected officials by petition signatures alone; ban federal enforcement of laws except through a county sheriff; and require all public school operations through the 12th grade be regulated only at the local district level.

No thanks

please tell me you are kidding...

Legal protection of jury nullification, protection of the 2nd amendment, removing politicos from office who aren't representing their constituents, keeping the fed federal, and local regulation of k-12 sounds great! Good ideas with nothing being very objectionable, sounds good to me.

 

[JSt0rm]

oh jeez... I'm originally from ohio

 

[nonlnear]

from the article:

Among other things, the Ohio Sovereignty Amendment would allow juries to nullify laws; expand the right to bear arms and maintain militias; permit recall of elected officials by petition signatures alone; ban federal enforcement of laws except through a county sheriff; and require all public school operations through the 12th grade be regulated only at the local district level.

No thanks

please tell me you are kidding...

Let's see:

- Juries already have the right to nullify any law they want to.

- To think that the right to bear arms could be expanded means it is unduly constrained to begin with. (Imagine a world in which the right to free speech were proposed to be expanded. What would that say about such a world? )

- I don't see much value in recall measures. I think electoral reform is much more important than recall, and recall is an overrated populist talking point anyways.

- I think curtailing federal sovereignty over federal law enforcement is a great counterpoint to the many federal power grabs over the last century, so I'm all for it. It might not be perfect, but we've got to chip away at the behemoth any way we can.

- Please devolve school administration as far away from the federal government as possible.

Overall: Sign me up!

 

[BladeVenom]

Let's see:

- Juries already have the right to nullify any law they want to.

But judges try to stop it. You mention jury nullification and you will probably won't be allowed on a jury or get kicked off. And lawyers aren't allowed to mention it.

 

[smashp]

Ban Federal enforcement of Laws?

I know that the majority of this state is mostly redneck yokels , but you want to give that kind of Power to Barney Fife?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

So, Ohio wants to secede? That didn't work out so well last time.

 

[SirStev0]

As a current resident of South Carolina and Native Son of the South, I must advise you that "State's Sovereignty" can easily be taken too far...

This is one of the funniest zingers I have read in a long time on P&N. I appreciate it.

 

[SirStev0]

Also, I maintain that Ohio is the worst state in the union and I would not miss it. Seceded at you leisure.

 

[Fayd]

- To think that the right to bear arms could be expanded means it is unduly constrained to begin with. (Imagine a world in which the right to free speech were proposed to be expanded. What would that say about such a world? )

the right to yell "MOVIE!" in a crowded firehouse? ^_^

 

[jackschmittusa]

The site is a hoot! Video of "The Jim Traficant Show". lol Meeting list seems to be all at churches and Teabagger events.

They have a world view far different than mine.

No thanks.

 

[Acanthus]

Also, I maintain that Ohio is the worst state in the union and I would not miss it. Seceded at you leisure.

As a new Ohio resident (i'm not from here) I agree.

I would rally against this petition.

 

[IronWing]

Jury nullification = lynch mob. With jury nullification there is no legal protection of rights.

 

[CPA]

from the article:

Among other things, the Ohio Sovereignty Amendment would allow juries to nullify laws; expand the right to bear arms and maintain militias; permit recall of elected officials by petition signatures alone; ban federal enforcement of laws except through a county sheriff; and require all public school operations through the 12th grade be regulated only at the local district level.

No thanks

please tell me you are kidding...

You know at one point in this country's history, most of those used to be commonplace. But, like most things the Feds overstepped their authority and took over.

 

[dmcowen674]

Ohio is Joe the Plumbers turf right?

Is he behind this, he just got elected to a county position where he lives.

 

[Sinsear]

The site is a hoot! Video of "The Jim Traficant Show". lol Meeting list seems to be all at churches and Teabagger events.

Gays are holding secession events in Ohio now?

 

[nonlnear]

the right to yell "MOVIE!" in a crowded firehouse? ^_^

Cute rearrangement.

Granted I oversimplified my point to cater to the simple minded poster I was replying to. Speech is not absolutely unlimited as there are specific instances when special kinds of speech create physical threats to safety. However the current level of restriction on the right to bear arms in many jurisdictions goes well beyond curtailing the right when safety is explicitly threatened to putting up unilateral fences that curtail everyone's (even safe) exercise of the right to bear arms.

 

[nonlnear]

Jury nullification = lynch mob. With jury nullification there is no legal protection of rights.

Without jury nullification there is no protection against government, ergo there is no protection of rights except in the nanny state sense where people believe that rights are dispensed by governmental fiat (i.e. "rights" are in fact not rights at all).

 

[IronWing]

Without jury nullification there is no protection against government, ergo there is no protection of rights except in the nanny state sense where people believe that rights are dispensed by governmental fiat (i.e. "rights" are in fact not rights at all).

Jury nullification means that a jury never convicts a klansman for lynching. We have a constitutional system for changing laws we don't like and the jury system isn't it.

 

[nonlnear]

Jury nullification means that a jury never convicts a klansman for lynching. We have a constitutional system for changing laws we don't like and the jury system isn't it.

Do you have anything more substantial than an isolated hypothetical case from decades past which deliberately avoids a substantive discussion of the overall impact of nullification on a judicial system? Frankly in a time when entire communities were engaged in the kind of evil you are talking about many other trial processes would also lead to a distasteful acquittal. You think professionals and experts are immune to the baser evils of humanity, or that laws in and of themselves can protect a society from the evils it wishes upon itself?

The overall impact of nullification (when coupled with appeals and the exclusion of double jeopardy) is to curtail aggressive prosecution. This is a good thing. [edit: Your argument boils down to: nullification is bad because evil people can use it for evil. Well, good people can use it for good. Outlawing it won't stop evil people from trying to use it for evil, while it could largely curtail good people from using it for good.]

Furthermore, there is no good reason to keep juries of peers if nullification is not a desired option. If every jury must follow the law strictly in spite of their opinions of the justice of the law then it is much more appropriate to use expert juries or simply go straight to appeals court (or an inquisitorial system) and let a panel of judges decide. And even then there is NO way to avoid the possibility of nullification. (I actually support introducing the option of an inquisitorial style trial by jury of experts - at the discretion of the defendant.)

 

[heyheybooboo]

Ohio is Joe the Plumbers turf right?

Is he behind this, he just got elected to a county position where he lives.

I hope it pays him a salary, and he can afford to re-pay those back taxes. And, of course, fund the ....

Dumber & Plumber / 2012 prezzi-dunce-cial campaign





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