Oh those poor, poor "christians"...

[Retro Rob]

Of what? Do you want me to quote the entire thing in Greek? Have you no ability or wish to gain knowledge regarding your own religion?

So you make a claim, provide zero evidence, and call me ignorant of my own religion because I asked you to back up your claim?

Modern atheism...you gotta love it!

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

And i applaud you for being so stupid that you cannot get a point. By earliest original manuscripts i do mean that, but the earliest writings (that were not copies, they were also original manuscripts because it's the FIRST time it was written, before that the information was passed by oral tradition) also do not mention the virgin mother.

1200 years later, she suddenly appears out of nowhere.

Doubling down on your abject ignorance and too stupid to realize it I see. I recommend that you read up on the subject a little more before publicly embarrassing yourself any more than you already have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus

The virgin birth was universally accepted in the Christian church by the 2nd century, was enshrined in the Apostles’ Creed, and, except for several minor sects, was not seriously challenged until the 18th century, and remains a basic article of belief in the Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and most Protestant churches. Muslims also accept the virgin birth of Jesus.

 

[First]

You know the old you're a bigot because you point out my bigotry argument. Its really a pretty pathetic one, but one that is trotted out repeatedly around here.

It seems homophobes and racists don't like being called what they are.

"Self-Righteous Bigots vs Self-Righteous Bigots" is pretty stupid, I agree. Anyone who can't figure out that being intolerant of anti-gay rhetoric isn't the moral equivalent/converse of the anti-gay bigots themselves would fail out of academia or any institution whose prerequisites require critical thinking skills. It's pretty straight forward at this point, though history will ultimately render final judgement on the fools.

 

[Retro Rob]

Doubling down on your abject ignorance and too stupid to realize it I see. I recommend that you read up on the subject a little more before publicly embarrassing yourself any more than you already have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus

Indeed!

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

"Self-Righteous Bigots vs Self-Righteous Bigots" is pretty stupid, I agree. Anyone who can't figure out that being intolerant of anti-gay rhetoric isn't the moral equivalent/converse of the anti-gay bigots themselves would fail out of academia or any institution whose prerequisites require critical thinking skills. It's pretty straight forward at this point, though history will ultimately render final judgement on the fools.

Some know what I'm talking about...and others, not so much. ROFL.

 

[First]

^ Indeed, deciphering vague bullshit can be difficult, lol.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

^ Indeed, deciphering vague bullshit can be difficult, lol.

Not for those with vastly superior critical thinking skills I would imagine.

 

[First]

^ Yeah, but it depends on the type of vague bullshit.

 

[Retro Rob]

Doubling down on your abject ignorance and too stupid to realize it I see. I recommend that you read up on the subject a little more before publicly embarrassing yourself any more than you already have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus

Doc, he hasn't addressed this, nor these so-called "original manuscripts" (that no one has found) that don't show Jesus as being born of a virgin....he's also yet to show how the earliest "copies" support his hypothesis.

Then there's the 1200 years BS. 1200 counting from what point? What sources does he have?

If atheism require this high-level of cognitive dissonance, then I'd damn well remain religious.

 

[Gunslinger08]

As a consumer-facing business, I have no idea why you would ever take a stance on anything remotely controversial. Makes no sense to me. I, personally, know people who silently boycott various businesses and brands based on very minor differences of opinion.

 

[kage69]

I'm feeling pretty proud right now, I've got to tell ya. I'm part of the "you guys" crowd. I hear this a lot. You guys this and you guys that. Sounds like a position of importance.

Pride isn't an issue for parrots like you in my experience. More of a comprehension and intellectual honesty issue really. Good to hear you haven't let that fail affect your self-esteem though, keep reaching for that rainbow boomer.

 

[thraashman]

Doubling down on your abject ignorance and too stupid to realize it I see. I recommend that you read up on the subject a little more before publicly embarrassing yourself any more than you already have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus

And if you read through that link even it talks about how in the original Hebrew the words used is almah, meaning an unmarried young woman of the age of puberty, and then in Greek it was translated to parthenos meaning virgin. So in Hebrew it doesn't speak of a virgin birth. Now I'm not using this as an attack on Christianity I just find it amusing that one of the most accepted tenets of the religion is based on mistranslations of the original Hebrew.

So far as I can tell the only part of the Bible that in its original language mentions a virgin birth is the Gospel of Luke which was original language Greek and written a generation to possibly several generations after the death of Yeshua (Jesus).

 

[SlowSpyder]

LOL. Claiming to be persecuted for not allowing to persecute someone else and trample their rights. Why isn't god helping out here?

 

[Retro Rob]

And if you read through that link even it talks about how in the original Hebrew the words used is almah, meaning an unmarried young woman of the age of puberty, and then in Greek it was translated to parthenos meaning virgin.

Almah (עלמה, plural: alamot עלמו&#1514 is a Hebrew word meaning a young woman of childbearing age who has not yet had a child, and who may be an unmarried virgin or a married young woman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almah

 

[thraashman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almah

But the Hebrew word for virgin in the sense that we understand the word virgin is Bethulah

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Doc, he hasn't addressed this, nor these so-called "original manuscripts" (that no one has found) that don't show Jesus as being born of a virgin....he's also yet to show how the earliest "copies" support his hypothesis.

Then there's the 1200 years BS. 1200 counting from what point? What sources does he have?

If atheism require this high-level of cognitive dissonance, then I'd damn well remain religious.

I don't know where he got his "facts" but I think he's finally figured out that they're highly 'suspect' judging from his sudden absence. Unfortunately, there are many more like him who are so self-deluded that they actually fancy themselves as being highly intelligent on such matters. Hopefully he spends a little more time learning in the future...and a little less time regurgitating the lies he's been fed. The indoctrination door swings both ways.

 

[Retro Rob]

But the Hebrew word for virgin in the sense that we understand the word virgin is Bethulah

Did you read where it says it "may be an unmarried virgin or a married young woman", in my link?

That means that you cannot narrowly and dogmatically define the word to fit what you want it to mean.

You guys are grasping at straws now, but I honestly don't expect this from you....

 

[kage69]

Doesn't upset me in the least. Just showing how you had to include " how controlling and butthurt atheists are" in your OP in this thread. Which could be a Freudian slip showing that you were butthurt by their comments. This thread reminds me of a little pouting, butthurt child trying to get even with those "evil Christians" for saying bad things about atheists.

Whatever you need to tell yourself. Problem is it seems to be the driving reason you are here; you're still trolling around even though the reason for the posts and this thread were explained to you.

It would take at least one convincing rebuttal to make me hit pause on the content feeling I get when trolls like you spin their wheels and embarrass themselves. Have you seen anyone here attempt to answer the questions submitted in the OP? Have you seen me proclaim all christians to be evil? Falsely representing my position isn't doing your trolling any favors, but thanks for confirming the sensitivity required to make such dishonest leaps. I appreciate it.

So, sorry to say but the only thing you've shown here is that you have the same difficulties with logic some asshats in Mississippi do. That and you are more than willing to go full troll if someone calls you out on it.

Please get smarter or go away, I'm starting to pity you. A grown man shouldn't have these problems of yours, not unless, you know...the butthurt causes it.

 

[thraashman]

Did you read where it says it "may be an unmarried virgin or a married young woman", in my link?

That means that you cannot narrowly and dogmatically define the word to fit what you want it to mean.

You guys are grasping at straws now, but I honestly don't expect this from you....

I'm not trying to change your beliefs in any way. I honestly don't care what you believe so long as you don't use beliefs as justification for bad behavior (which I don't feel you do). I'm just pointing out that at the time bethulah would have been contextually used to refer to a virgin (and is throughout Isaiah) and almah would have contextually been unlikely to be used to refer to a virgin. It was the Greek translation that decided almah meant virgin even though prior to that bethulah has always been the word used to refer to virgin.

 

[Retro Rob]

I don't know where he got his "facts" but I think he's finally figured out that they're highly 'suspect' judging from his sudden absence. Unfortunately, there are many more like him who are so self-deluded that they actually fancy themselves as being highly intelligent on such matters. Hopefully he spends a little more time learning in the future...and a little less time regurgitating the lies he's been fed. The indoctrination door swings both ways.

Yep, and his prolonged absence speaks louder than anything he can say now.

 

[Retro Rob]

I'm not trying to change your beliefs in any way. I honestly don't care what you believe so long as you don't use beliefs as justification for bad behavior (which I don't feel you do).

Thanks.

I'm just pointing out that at the time bethulah would have been contextually used to refer to a virgin (and is throughout Isaiah) and almah would have contextually been unlikely to be used to refer to a virgin. It was the Greek translation that decided almah meant virgin even though prior to that bethulah has always been the word used to refer to virgin.

I do believe you honestly wanted to point it out, but I also sense an ulterior motive because you wanted to show, and I quote, that "nowhere is it mentioned that Jesus was born of a virgin".

This, of course, is bullshit. Making this statement shows that you want to prove how this particular facet of our beliefs is a complete lie.

Not the first time the Bible has been attacked in this manner...I'm sure it won't be the last..

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

But the Hebrew word for virgin in the sense that we understand the word virgin is Bethulah

The New Testament was written in Greek...not Hebrew.

Matthew 1:23
"Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

The Greek word used here is parthenos.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/parthenos

Par·then·os [pahr-then-uhs, pahr-thuh-nos]
noun
an epithet of Athena, meaning “virgin.”

 

[Retro Rob]

The New Testament was written in Greek...not Hebrew.

Matthew 1:23
"Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

The Greek word used here is parthenos.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/parthenos

Par·then·os [pahr-then-uhs, pahr-thuh-nos]
noun
an epithet of Athena, meaning “virgin.”

:thumbsup:

 

[thraashman]

The New Testament was written in Greek...not Hebrew.

Matthew 1:23
"Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

The Greek word used here is parthenos.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/parthenos

Par·then·os [pahr-then-uhs, pahr-thuh-nos]
noun
an epithet of Athena, meaning “virgin.”

Parts of the new testament were written in Greek. Three of the four Gospels were based on writing and stories of supposed eye witnesses. They would have been originally in Hebrew or Aramaic and translated to Greek very early. The first time they were collected as a whole would have been in Greek, but based on earlier texts or oral tradition that were not Greek. Yes, I am aware parthenos in Greek does properly mean virgin.

I will not continue to argue this as I'm not trying to convert anyone here. This is extremely off topic and admittedly I am largely at fault. I'll make you both (Doc Savage Fan and Retro Rob) a deal, I'll drop it if you do.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Parts of the new testament were written in Greek. Three of the four Gospels were based on writing and stories of supposed eye witnesses. They would have been originally in Hebrew or Aramaic and translated to Greek very early. The first time they were collected as a whole would have been in Greek, but based on earlier texts or oral tradition that were not Greek. Yes, I am aware parthenos in Greek does properly mean virgin.

I will not continue to argue this as I'm not trying to convert anyone here. This is extremely off topic and admittedly I am largely at fault. I'll make you both (Doc Savage Fan and Retro Rob) a deal, I'll drop it if you do.

All of the New Testament was written in Koine Greek....not parts. Please point me to any "original" transcript of the New Testament written in Hebrew, especially where the Hebrew word "almah" was used to describe Mary as you have previously advocated. Otherwise, admit that you're making up crap and don't have a clue as to what you're talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_the_New_Testament

Most biblical scholars adhere to the view that the Greek text of the New Testament is the original version.[10] An opposite view, that it is a translation from an Aramaic original (recently called "Aramaic primacy") has not gained popularity. At any rate, since most of the texts are written by diaspora Jews such as Paul of Tarsus and his possibly Gentile companion, Luke, and to a large extent addressed directly to Christian communities in Greek-speaking cities (often communities consisting largely of Paul's converts, which appear to have been non-Jewish in the majority), and since the style of their Greek is impeccable,[11] a Greek original is more probable than a translation.

Even Mark, whose Greek is heavily influenced by his Semitic substratum, seems to presuppose a non-Hebrew audience. Thus, he explains Jewish customs (e.g. Mark 7:3-4, see also Mark 7), and he translates Aramaic phrases into Greek (Mark 3:17: boanerges; Mark 5:41: talitha kum; Mark 7:34: ephphatha; Mark 14:36: abba; Mark 15:22: Golgotha; Mark 15:34, see also Aramaic of Jesus and Sayings of Jesus on the cross). In the Aramaic Syriac version of the Bible, these translations are preserved, resulting in odd texts like Mark 15:34: