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Oh the humanity!!!

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,650
0
0
I've been tortured to death by the red-herring that is "47% of Americans don't pay taxes!"

I'm trying to figure out why this bullshit is taking on a life of its own but then I remembered that the average IQ for an American is usually considered to be 100 (98 if you go by the "Wealth of Nations") and that (to paraphrase the late, great George Carlin), if that is the average, then half of the population is dumber than that!

Let's do something different and actually look at the facts.

If we took the bottom 50% of all wage earners according to their adjusted gross income (AGI) for the 2009 tax year (latest made available by the IRS), the bottom 50% of all AGI filers paid ~$19.5B on income of ~$1.06T or ~1.85% of their total AGI for the year. Pretty much nothing at all.

While it is true that they are paying nearly nothing, some are also earning nearly nothing as well. If you are on unemployment, you are required to file a tax return. If you are on Social Security and have any additional income from another retirement source, you have to file a tax return. If you were employed part time, you have to file a tax return. If you are a child and have earned more than $950 in a single year, you are required to file income taxes.

Now, when looking at the top 10% of AGI filers shows that they had income of ~$3.38T and paid ~$610B for a rate of ~18%.

The top 1% took in ~$1.235T in AGI and paid ~$318B in taxes for a rate of ~24%. Mitt must really, really have some good accountants if he's at 13%! Either that or some of the others actually believe in not trying to squeeze out every penny that they can at the expense of those that are enabling them to live the life of complete luxory.


Now, let's look at corporate income taxes for 2009:

The rate for companies with > $2.5B in total assets was ~20.5%. The rate for companies one rung lower on the ladder ($500M - $2.5B) was ~$28.6%. The next rung down on the ladder (250M - 500M) is ~30.2%.

Huh. That's wierd how the higher up you go, the less that you pay.

If the largest of the countries corporations were to pay even a flat 25% rate, the amount of additional tax revenue that would be generated would be another $28B. But when you also add in the tens of billions of dollars that were also refunded to these same large corporations, you can see that the number is likely to be closer to $50B.

Also remember that, within the tax code are additional billions of dollars in grants, credits and exemptions for these same corporations.

If you really want to end this red herring argument, completely redo corporate income tax policy and cut spending.



Numbers/data gathered from:

http://taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-individual-income-tax-data-0#table1

and

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/09coccr.pdf
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
22,606
900
126
Numbers won't help win that battle. Instead I rely on one fact: active duty military combat pay isn't taxed. That almost always shuts up the red-herring people since they tend to be ardent military supporters. As soon as they realize that they are bashing our armed forces while they are in foreign wars, they become speachless. Our armed forces aren't lazy or on welfare or scamming the system.

True, other military pay is taxed, but no need to go into that detail.
 
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RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,650
0
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Numbers won't help win that battle. Instead I rely on one fact: active duty military pay isn't taxed. That almost always shuts up the red-herring people since they tend to be ardent military supporters. As soon as they realize that they are bashing our armed forces, they become speachless. Our armed forces aren't lazy or on welfare or scamming the system.

True, other military pay is taxed, but no need to go into that detail.
I with the this board afforded a simple thumbs up/down rating for a thread so that I could give this one a BIG thumbs up.
 

Skitzer

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2000
4,416
2
81
I rely on one fact: active duty military pay isn't taxed.
True, other military pay is taxed, but no need to go into that detail.
Not true. Active duty military do pay federal and in most cases state taxes.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There are some states that do not require military personnel to pay state income taxes. These states are: Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming.[/FONT] 7 out of 50 states.
The only time an active duty military is not taxed is: [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Those who serve in an officially designated combat zone, or a qualified hazardous duty area, will have their tax payment requirements suspended during their service. This also applies for any period of continuous hospitalization outside the U.S. as a result of injury received during combat service, plus 180 days thereafter[/FONT]
You should rethink your argument.
 
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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
22,606
900
126
Not true. Active duty military do pay federal and in most cases state taxes.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There are some states that do not require military personnel to pay state income taxes. These states are: Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming.[/FONT] 7 out of 52 states.
The only time an active duty military is not taxed is: [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Those who serve in an officially designated combat zone, or a qualified hazardous duty area, will have their tax payment requirements suspended during their service. This also applies for any period of continuous hospitalization outside the U.S. as a result of injury received during combat service, plus 180 days thereafter[/FONT]
You should rethink your argument.
I've already added combat to the text above. I accidently left it out.

The 47% argument has nothing to do with state taxes.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
0
0
You have quotes around the 47% don't pay taxes. How about giving us the actual quote instead of the made up lie you're telling in the OP.

You can do it, you can actually tell the truth instead of lying.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,649
10,705
136
Nobody is denying the 47%. However Romney said those people aren't going to take responsibility for their lives and he doesn't care about them
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
You have quotes around the 47% don't pay taxes. How about giving us the actual quote instead of the made up lie you're telling in the OP.

You can do it, you can actually tell the truth instead of lying.
Lol anyone who watched the video knows exactly what mittens said.

No need to quote for the intellectually dishonest.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,897
638
126
While it is true that they are paying nearly nothing, some are also earning nearly nothing as well.
You had a long post in which you throw in a lot of unrelated garbage and attempted to draw some parallels that are not germain to your argument. The quote above sums up the 47% fairly well.

Would it be better for people to have employment at a level that would allow them to have a higher standard of living, a standard of living that would necessitate them paying federal taxes so they both have a dog in the fight and contribute to the greater good of society? Or would it be better to leave them as low earners or unemployed and take from the rich and corporations so we could continue to provide them benefits?

Do they have enough disposable income to purchase the goods and services that would allow our economy to hum along at a level that benefits the nation as a whole? If not, if we continue to take from those that "have" to support those that don't at what point do those that "have" transition to those that don't?

Just some things to ponder. You've recognized that the 47% is an enormous problem. You've incorrectly categorized that problem.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,650
0
0
You have quotes around the 47% don't pay taxes. How about giving us the actual quote instead of the made up lie you're telling in the OP.

You can do it, you can actually tell the truth instead of lying.
I'm quoting the "47%" line because that is what has been plastered all over the TV and internet for the last two weeks.

If you are having a hard time finding any references to it....

http://bit.ly/RyXDjT
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
Slight correction: combat pay isn't taxed, base pay is taxed.



No pay is taxed when you're in a combat zone. That's pretty irrelevant to the issue of who does or doesn't pay taxes since it's just a temporary perk to going and fighting this countries wars, however popular or unpopular to the individual. :rolleyes:
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
0
0
Lol anyone who watched the video knows exactly what mittens said.

No need to quote for the intellectually dishonest.
Either it's a quote or it's not. You are not just being intellectually dishonest, you're being a liar. So is the OP. It isn't that tough for him to make it the actual quote or to take down the quotation marks.

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it -- that that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. ... These are people who pay no income tax. ... [M]y job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."
There's the actual quote. Gosh, that was hard.
 

keird

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
3,718
9
81
Numbers won't help win that battle. Instead I rely on one fact: active duty military combat pay isn't taxed. That almost always shuts up the red-herring people since they tend to be ardent military supporters. As soon as they realize that they are bashing our armed forces while they are in foreign wars, they become speachless. Our armed forces aren't lazy or on welfare or scamming the system.

True, other military pay is taxed, but no need to go into that detail.
Less than 0.45% of the U.S. polulation has served in uniform since 9/11. Less than half of that has deployed to a combat zone. That tax break is available to a lot of people. Talk to your local recruiter :D
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,650
0
0
Either it's a quote or it's not. You are not just being intellectually dishonest, you're being a liar. So is the OP. It isn't that tough for him to make it the actual quote or to take down the quotation marks.



There's the actual quote. Gosh, that was hard.
That wasn't hard. But something that does appear to be is reading comprehension on your part. I want talking about Romney's quote but about all of the blowhard talking heads.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
5
0
Some people live on money from investments.

Other's live on from from wages.

Corporations make income, have expenses and end up with profits from different types of methods and locations

Each type of income are taxed differently per CONGRESS.
One is a fool to not use what options Congress has provided for reducing the taxable level of the type of income earned.

And also an idiot for complaining about others using the option if they themselves are also doing so.

This has been explained in multiple threads here; why start another?
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Either it's a quote or it's not. You are not just being intellectually dishonest, you're being a liar. So is the OP. It isn't that tough for him to make it the actual quote or to take down the quotation marks.



There's the actual quote. Gosh, that was hard.
Crying over nuance, such a predictable response from the forum crybaby.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
3,960
33
91
I hate this 47% don't pay taxes figure. It is actually 47% don't pay income taxes. However for some reason the income part seems to get left off a lot. Everyone that works does pay pay-roll taxes. Also if you buy gasoline you pay Federal tax on that to. So to say 47% don't pay taxes is really misleading.
 

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