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Oh look! Obama admin gives no bid contract to Haliburton

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,967
843
126
Meet the new boss...

Im posting not so much because I disagree with it, but it IS news. Over a half BILLION dollar contract.

You know, he's looking more like Bush every month!

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-06/kbr-to-get-no-bid-army-work-as-u-s-alleges-kickbacks-update1-.html

KBR to Get No-Bid Army Work as U.S. Alleges Kickbacks (Update1)

May 6 (Bloomberg) -- KBR Inc. was selected for a no-bid contract worth as much as $568 million through 2011 for military support services in Iraq, the Army said.
The Army announced its decision yesterday only hours after the Justice Department said it will pursue a lawsuit accusing the Houston-based company of taking kickbacks from two subcontractors on Iraq-related work. The Army also awarded the work to KBR over objections from members of Congress, who have pushed the Pentagon to seek bids for further logistics contracts.
 

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
13,968
0
0
Though I think it's bs, as someone that bids on government contracts all the time I know how the system works. No-bids are common as are 8(a) bids, and in addition to that the criteria often set (in a simple pass/fail nature) for the bids alienates all but maybe one or two companies.

Kickbacks happen in businesses of all sizes. It's the glue that keeps everything together. Ever wonder why that tiny company with no employees somehow lands that contract with some of the biggest companies?

That's business. If the market were actually free, the best solution should ultimately rise to the top; however, that's just not the case.

In other words: This is status quo. If you expect Obama to change capitalism in America, you're crazy. This is how it works, and while everyone seems to think he's a capitalism assassin there's simply no way he has the might to change the financial interests.
 

FaaR

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2007
1,056
410
136
If the market were actually free, the best solution should ultimately rise to the top; however, that's just not the case.
If the market were actually free (as in, no rules covering it) then the big dogs in each respective market segment would eventually crush everyone else, and then you'd have to pay kickbacks (read: bribes) just to get these dogs to do anything for you, because there'd be nobody else for you to turn to.
 

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
13,968
0
0
If the market were actually free (as in, no rules covering it) then the big dogs in each respective market segment would eventually crush everyone else, and then you'd have to pay kickbacks (read: bribes) just to get these dogs to do anything for you, because there'd be nobody else for you to turn to.
Agreed, but my point is that it's little different than that now. Bribes come in a lot of forms, not necessary an exchange of monies.

My feeling is that real competition only exists in the small businesses. Like corporate serfs, we all take the brunt of the punishment when the markets go awry.

I'm not apologizing for Obama. I'm merely saying that bringing this up as an issue is dishonest. This is how it works in this country. This won't change.
 

Matthiasa

Diamond Member
May 4, 2009
5,755
22
81
Yes never mind the fact its still probably cheaper and easier to use them, then having to get other places the the right clearances, with the right knowledge, and the right tools to do what they do.
 

cliftonite

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2001
6,874
44
91
Meet the new boss...

Im posting not so much because I disagree with it, but it IS news. Over a half BILLION dollar contract.

You know, he's looking more like Bush every month!

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-06/kbr-to-get-no-bid-army-work-as-u-s-alleges-kickbacks-update1-.html

KBR to Get No-Bid Army Work as U.S. Alleges Kickbacks (Update1)

May 6 (Bloomberg) -- KBR Inc. was selected for a no-bid contract worth as much as $568 million through 2011 for military support services in Iraq, the Army said.
The Army announced its decision yesterday only hours after the Justice Department said it will pursue a lawsuit accusing the Houston-based company of taking kickbacks from two subcontractors on Iraq-related work. The Army also awarded the work to KBR over objections from members of Congress, who have pushed the Pentagon to seek bids for further logistics contracts.
So 8 years in you want to change contractors?
 

nonlnear

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,497
0
76
Descartes said:
If the market were actually free, the best solution should ultimately rise to the top; however, that's just not the case.
If the market were actually free (as in, no rules covering it) then the big dogs in each respective market segment would eventually crush everyone else, and then you'd have to pay kickbacks (read: bribes) just to get these dogs to do anything for you, because there'd be nobody else for you to turn to.
And here we see yet again the big problem with using the term "free market". It doesn't actually mean anything until you specify which freedoms you mean, and all too often people who disagree (or even who think they agree!) on key issues are using the same term to mean wildly different things.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
This crap about so many "military services" is foolish anyway.

Back in the day, the military had its own cooks, drivers, record keepers, guards, and construction units. And they were all trained as riflemen. Bastogne is the classic example of having support people being riflemen too. And you can't tell me that an outside contractor is cheaper than a private working in the mess or galley. I also never heard of any Sea Bees or Engineers building showers that electrocuted their buddys.

Strengthen the military, improve the service, and save money in one easy move by shitcanning the civilian service contracts.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
I very much agree with Jackshmittusa, but the thing now missing in action is that Obama has given the contract his own tacit approval. One would think that Gates would have stopped the contract or at least put it up to bids, but now that its hit the news, any further Obama passivity may constitute his own tactic approval.

Before we may have been able to say Obama did not know, but Obama has to know now.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,272
103
106
This crap about so many "military services" is foolish anyway.

Back in the day, the military had its own cooks, drivers, record keepers, guards, and construction units. And they were all trained as riflemen. Bastogne is the classic example of having support people being riflemen too. And you can't tell me that an outside contractor is cheaper than a private working in the mess or galley. I also never heard of any Sea Bees or Engineers building showers that electrocuted their buddys.

Strengthen the military, improve the service, and save money in one easy move by shitcanning the civilian service contracts.
I don't disagree conceptually, but there's one slight problem with that approach. It used to be simple because (through the draft) there was a large pool of available people for the military at a relatively low cost. However, now it's very expensive to train and recruit each member of the military, and we simply don't have the manpower to have the military handle all those "support" roles that it used to handle in previous wars. That's why they turned to private contractors.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,158
6
81
Yes never mind the fact its still probably cheaper and easier to use them, then having to get other places the the right clearances, with the right knowledge, and the right tools to do what they do.
You sang a different tune when Bush did it
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
9
81
holly fuck i love the hypcris of this site.


before election: Kick KBR out! they are currupt and have bush in there pocket!

after: Well what do you want? change contractors after 8 years? ..it is cheaper to keep them then change them..etc etc.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
If Ron Paul ran against Obama on the latter's corporatism, he'd win in a fucking landslide. That's be all it takes, and people would see what an elitist piece of trash the President is. Too bad that the Republicans may put up another corporatist instead.

I'm so god damn sick of liberals' assaults on the little guy that I could scream.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,967
843
126
holly fuck i love the hypcris of this site.


before election: Kick KBR out! they are currupt and have bush in there pocket!

after: Well what do you want? change contractors after 8 years? ..it is cheaper to keep them then change them..etc etc.
Surprised? Im not. Theyve been making excuses or watering down earlier languaged saved for Bush for 2 years....
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
If Ron Paul ran against Obama on the latter's corporatism, he'd win in a fucking landslide. That's be all it takes, and people would see what an elitist piece of trash the President is. Too bad that the Republicans may put up another corporatist instead.

I'm so god damn sick of liberals' assaults on the little guy that I could scream.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now you done tickled my funny bone, by yielding up only half of the Conan the Barbarian meaning of life, now if you can only deliver up the lamination of your women too in addition to your screams, the Conan analogy would be complete.

But keep screaming out your delusions, Ron Paul tried running in 2008, he may have attracted some similar screaming fans of both sexes, but the average molehill, is far higher than the flat pancake Ron Paul turned out to be.

Anarchist420, if you would ever visit a mountaintop, or even a medium sized hill, you might have the perspective to see how tiny your views are.

As it is, Obama's AG has already filed suit to stop the contract, which is already more than either Ashcroft, Gonzales, or Mucasey ever did. And since Obama has not weighed in yet, where does your blame only Obama stuff come from?

Well silly me, I forgot, Ron Paul will personally ride to the rescue as low bidder and deliver all those services for free. Using just little guys like you, me , and blackwater.

But still, if my point were granted, I would pass a law that banned Haliburton from ever receiving a dime of US government funding in perpetuity, and better yet a longer period of time if a possible way could be found to do so.
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
17,618
2,770
126
Though I think it's bs, as someone that bids on government contracts all the time I know how the system works. No-bids are common as are 8(a) bids, and in addition to that the criteria often set (in a simple pass/fail nature) for the bids alienates all but maybe one or two companies.

Kickbacks happen in businesses of all sizes. It's the glue that keeps everything together. Ever wonder why that tiny company with no employees somehow lands that contract with some of the biggest companies?

That's business. If the market were actually free, the best solution should ultimately rise to the top; however, that's just not the case.

In other words: This is status quo. If you expect Obama to change capitalism in America, you're crazy. This is how it works, and while everyone seems to think he's a capitalism assassin there's simply no way he has the might to change the financial interests.
Perhaps you work for crooks, because I can assure you that this isn't normal and common business practice.
 

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
13,968
0
0
Perhaps you work for crooks, because I can assure you that this isn't normal and common business practice.
From what expertise do you counter my assertion?

No one called them crooks. It's just the way the system works. If you think bids are neutral to all parties, then you're not speaking from a perspective of experience.

Everything I said is fact, not conjecture. If you have directly bid on government contracts as well and feel have contrary experience, then please educate us.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,501
1
81
Indeed! And although you may have disagreed with Bush on <insert issue here>, if you disagree with Obama its because youre either racist or partisan ;)
Well, if Mr Obama's political opponents would cut back on the anti-Obama hyperbole, the political hypocrisy, and pointless outrages they would not be called partisan hacks.

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to racism but I have noticed that Mr Obama's political opponents mention his race more than anyone else.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,577
617
126
Link?(hint look at my join date.) :p
Well, I think nick1985 was referring not to you specifically, but to the usual lefty suspects here who decried and threw a hissy fit when the Bush administration did the exact same thing. I'm not saying that what either Bush or Obama did was right or wrong, but the point nick1985 was making (and I agree) was that the silence from the usual suspects is deafening when their hero follows the same procedures for which Bush was crucified by them.
 

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