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Oh dear god!!! (AKA Paper MCSE suck)

W

Windogg

Lifer
Nothing against people who have busted their butt doing the work and then getting certified as a tribute to the knowledge one as gained through hands on experience. What sucks ass are the wannabes that attend those overpriced classes where they teach you how to chant, "Microsoft GOOD!!! Novell BAD!!! MICROSOFT GOOD!!! UNIX BAD!!! Microsoft GOOD!!! Apple BAD!!!" and "I NOW SUMMON THE POWERS OF CERTIFICATION!!!" What do you get? One trick ponies that know jacksquat about real world tech work. If it ain't in the class, it'll go over their heads faster than a Brett Farve pass to a midget.

Our overworked and underappericated helpdesk has now been replaced by outsourced people (including many , many MCSEs) that are supposidy better (worse), faster (than a slug in glue), and cheaper (anyone want to but a $845.19 floppy disk?). I guess it has been decided that all admin will do a braindump to help build a knowledgebase for these people. It consists of questions that have stumped them or questions they have that need to be answered. Some of the highlights:

Is Lotus SmartSuite internally developed?
What is Adobe Acrobat used for? How is this software attained?
How do you setup WinZip? Where are the setup files?
Can data be corrupted by restarting the workstaion while the HDD is moving?
What is a terminal emulator?

I laughed so hard that Chex Mix nearly came out of my nose.

I guess if it ain't Microsoft, it ain't work knowing about. Even then I question what they know about MS products.

One of them even asked me, "Windows 2000 is based on NT???"

Boy do I love job security.

Windogg
 
Hire me to do their job, I'll do it for 2/3 what they're making (I dunno what they're making, but it's gotta be at least 50% higher than what I'm making).

Viper GTS
 
I have had the pleasure <sarcasm> of dealing with many of these types. I get very offended when they compare themselves to me just because we both have MCSE or CNE. It was even worse before I decided to stoop and get the certs because they thought that somehow that 2 week boot camp and that piece of paper could magically make them a better admin than my decades of experience. The newer MSCE tests I have seen do look like they are geared more towards requiring real world experience though, so maybe the future is bright.
 
I work with MCSE's myself even tho I am not certified.

The sad truth is more than 50% of the MCSEs that are out there are no more than paper MCSEs. Very few have real skills.

WarclericEven tho the new tests are harder, there are braindump sites and all that cheating crap availble.
 


<< The newer MSCE tests I have seen do look like they are geared more towards requiring real world experience though, so maybe the future is bright. >>



Until they change the classes to teach the students whatever they need to know on the tests.. MCSE should become something like the CCIE, requiring some sort of hands on test, not just multiple choice questions. Or make a new cert like Master MCSE that requires a hands on test and make the MCSE an entry level cert (de jure, not de facto).
 
I work with this guy who is MCSE ceritified or a former &quot;Computer Consultant&quot; or whatever the hell he says he is. I had to help him with his laptop, he's a dumbass!
 
hmmm... I think most of us(anandtechie) who had hands on experience with many computer products, servers, softwares are well made for these type of jobs. Also for those who are wannabes that attend those boot camps and get the certs ---> fast route into the IT field. I have to be honest with yall, I'm a Civil Engineer with no IT experience other than building my own computer and playing around with many different type of servers. Right now I'm a Network Administrator hehehehe <--- How i got here? I dont know. I hate people that tells me they are certified in this and that but knows very little about the entire computer industry. all they know is basic skills to get around how to setup your wallpaper and how to write couple script files <---- and thats all they do. 🙂 There is this guy in my office that always ask me about CD burners and tells me Mac's are much faster than PCs. 🙁 wish i can just shut my door on them but I dont have a door 🙁 my office is a huge open area.


--SCSI
 
Knowing that I will certainly piss someone off, I also would like to say that, because you helped your next door neighbour set up AOL and slapped together a patchwork computer with parts you bought at the last &quot;computer show&quot; that does not make you a computer expert. To my own dismay I live with these machines every single day of my miserable life. I am completely fed up with desktop computers and end users, and if you have any exuberance about computers at all, I immediately know that you are a novice by my definition. Technology is an addiction and those of us that are really in the field will hit rock bottom. It has taken me 20+ years to develop this hatred for my addiction, but it is very deep seated. I am at the point of fantasies about damaging anything with the word &quot;compaq&quot; on it severely with a large heavy object.
 


<< hmmm... I think most of us(anandtechie) who had hands on experience with many computer products, servers, softwares are well made for these type of jobs. Also for those who are wannabes that attend those boot camps and get the certs ---> fast route into the IT field. I have to be honest with yall, I'm a Civil Engineer with no IT experience other than building my own computer and playing around with many different type of servers. Right now I'm a Network Administrator hehehehe <--- How i got here? I dont know. I hate people that tells me they are certified in this and that but knows very little about the entire computer industry. all they know is basic skills to get around how to setup your wallpaper and how to write couple script files <---- and thats all they do. 🙂 There is this guy in my office that always ask me about CD burners and tells me Mac's are much faster than PCs. 🙁 wish i can just shut my door on them but I dont have a door 🙁 my office is a huge open area.

Then start an ATCSE Anand Tech Certified Systems Engineer procram!
What would the test be ? Overclocking a Tbird until it cooked a pop tart ?


--SCSI >>

 
I had a trustee of our town (ie, Village board member) who also makes a living as a &quot;Computer Consultant&quot; tell me that a T1 was just as fast as a 10base Lan connection. I want his job...😉
 
I can hope I can become a &quot;Paper MCSE&quot;. That will allow me to get my foot into the door for an entry level position so that I can get the real world experience. I will never tout my future MCSE just like I have yet to say &quot;I have an A+&quot; outside of an interview.

Does everyone remember that they once asked a VERY STUPID question or comment in regards to computers?
 
The new MCSE tests ARE a bit tougher than before though. Ideally it'll result in fewer, better MCSE's.
 
hey Windogg, i'm still looking for a summer job, hire me any time you want 😉 i'll work minimum wage in canadian dollars even!(about $4.42USD/hour) 😛

how is it people who don't know what they're doing can get jobs like that, but people who do can't? it's just not fair 🙁
 
I totally agree with thegameis21 I really want a paper mcsd so that I can get a JOB! I KNOW I don't know jack crap, but I want to gain experience so that I can know crap, also to make some money to pay for &quot;maintenance&quot; fees on my computer. Ok time to go crap 🙂
 
thegameis21, nothing wrong with asking stupid questions, it's when someone tries to pass off the wrong answer as a fact that makes things funky for everyone. I fully believe that &quot;Paper MCSE&quot; are a black eye on the IT world. I sure as hell do not want a surgeon operating on me who had read all the books but never picked up a scalpel. Imagine how silly he would sound if he told people that your heart is located in the brain and having a breakup with a girl causes heart attacks.

Gain experience the right way. Start at help desk and work your way up. You gotta learn to float before you can swim.
 


<< Gain experience the right way. Start at help desk and work your way up. You gotta learn to float before you can swim. >>



I have worked on help desks for three years now. Been with 2 ISP's (one of them lost the contract) and in the corporate environment. Of all of those, none of them would move me out of helpdesk without me either completing MCSE or CCNA. So, I am working on those certs. Yes my MCP's right now are paper, but that is not my fault. If someone would stinking give me a shot at the server room, doing ANYTHING, then I wouldn't be a paper MCP now would I?

It can be a frustrating catch-22 sometimes.


 
Windogg:



<< nothing wrong with asking stupid questions, it's when someone tries to pass off the wrong answer as a fact that makes things funky for everyone. >>


I never said anything was wrong with asking stupid questions/making stupid statements. Just reminding you that everyone has asked/stated one. Your first post listed &quot;Some Highlights&quot;.



<< I fully believe that &quot;Paper MCSE&quot; are a black eye on the IT world. >>


They are if they don't try to learn what they don't know and just pass themselves on as experts and get Sys Admin jobs.



<< I sure as hell do not want a surgeon operating on me who had read all the books but never picked up a scalpel. Imagine how silly he would sound if he told people that your heart is located in the brain and having a breakup with a girl causes heart attacks. >>


That is why I am wanting to do my &quot;Rotations&quot; (since you insist on using surgeons as the metaphor) in an entry level position (read Gopher boy) and learn what I need to know to be a full &quot;Surgeon&quot;.



<< Gain experience the right way. Start at help desk and work your way up. You gotta learn to float before you can swim. >>


I don't know what your financial situation is (don't want to know either) but many of us that are working in a help desk position (As I currently am) don't have the $$ to take the classes or opportunity to do the internship to learn on the job since we are taking calls 40+ hours a week. I bust my a$$ on the my job and learning what I can but until I get my hands on a physical network I can only become a paper MCSE and learn once I get an entry level job in networking.

Take another look at the classifieds.... many help desk positions are wanting MCSE's. Everyone knows that helpdesk is 50% resetting passwords, 25% answering MS Windows/Office questions, 25% misc that needs to be sent to desktop support. What the hell does that have to do with MCSE?

 
game you seem miss my message completly. Look at the first line of my first post. I commend people wo go out and learn to do it the right way. What I hate is people who goto silly two weeks bootcamp that only teach you how to pass the test and nothing else. I waste more of my day dealing with people who think their paper certs mean they can get 6 figures and think they are above everyone.

The classifieds are from HR people that know jack squat about IT. I've walked into many &quot;MCSE REQUIRED&quot; interviews and walked away with offers while certified wannabes were shown the door.
 
Ok yes a paper MCSE sucks, but we are saying that some people are only paper because they cannot find the opportunity. IT jobs are guarded by those that have them, and it can be a &quot;who you know not what you know&quot; type of thing to get something higher than the helpdesk.
 
Windogg,

I am pleasently ammused at your ramblings about the woes of being in an IT dept with the responsibility to assist staff members with their computer needs. But now you have me puzzled. Since when does a 2 week &quot;boot camp&quot; make a certified MCSE? You are blowing smoke here. I have never seen anyone attend a boot camp and walk away with a cert unless they packed enough knowledge to get them the cert in the first place.

And why are you so down on MCSE's? Are you a microsoft certified systems engineer? How do you become qualified to judge anyone's skills? What are yours?

I have worked in the IT dept. of a 250 employee company with WAN,LAN,NT4,Win98/95/2k desktops and running Novell,Unix,and a miraid of print devices and laptops,and keeping a fractional t-1 alive for PDC and BDC replication,yet I do not know neer enough to slam others for asking questions,be they MCSE's or secrtaries.

You amuse me,but I need to sift through your arragance to see the amusement at times.😉
 
Tripleshot: wow, overanalyzed big time. I have put in my time and I am an MCSE+i and a CNE. I know people right out of High School that have attended a 2-3 week boot camp and gotten certified. It IS happening whether you want to recognize it or not. Now as far as I am concerned, if a &quot;professional&quot; has to ask a question like &quot;Is Win2k based on NT?&quot; then they are not a professional. I would not slam an end user for asking this question, but I would slam anyone who claimed themselves to be an IT Professional.
 
Winndog:
I am not trying to get into a pissing match with you. I am just backing up my statements against yours that were against me. I think we both agree that &quot;Paper MCSE's&quot; are bad. Your definition appears to be everyone who is MCSE that has not worked on a network before. Mine is Everyone who is MCSE that sits around pretending to be a sys admin but cant figure out the difference between TCP/IP and Netbui.

Wyvrn:
You are 100% right. It is who you know not what in most cases. I can't blame people though. That is the way job networking is supposed to work but it is damned frustrating for those of us that don't have the connections.
 
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