Ogg Vorbis comparison request

LotharJade

Senior member
Feb 12, 2003
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I was doing a little research on AACPLUS (newer than AAC) and MP3PRO because my two favorite webradio stations are using them (Whole Wheat Radio and Secret Agent Radio), and wondered how they compare to Ogg Vorbis. Anyone know of any comparisons? Which are better for sound quality?

AACPLUS and MP3Pro seem like the hot thing as far as sound quality goes (noting I don't know where Ogg Vorbis compares), but few players seem to support at this point, much less ogg vorbis. So, How do these compare to each other, and why haven't most many major players started to support them?

:D I would start a campain to convice my favorite stations to support Ogg Vorbis if it compared or passed these two formats, otherwise I would try to find a player that supports these formats (or convince a player to support).;)
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
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ack lost the link for a decent codec roundup i saw a whiel back. but at decent bitrates lame mp3 pretty much matches the rest. they all do ok at decet bitrates.
 

LotharJade

Senior member
Feb 12, 2003
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I kinda am curious to find the best streaming format for 64ish kbs or less. Hmmm, I wonder if Ogg Flac works that low? Basically I am finding that my favorite sites are playing MP3PRO or AACPLUS and that the players I have don't support that. I am considering trying to convice them to one of the Ogg open source formats and trying to get a player that plays that. Not sure how to convince, but if I had data showing that it rocked hard and was free, things might be a little easier.
 

LotharJade

Senior member
Feb 12, 2003
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Ogg Flac
what is FLAC? FLAC stands for Free Lossless Audio Codec. Grossly oversimplified, FLAC is similar to MP3, but lossless, meaning that audio is compressed in FLAC without any loss in quality. This is similar to how Zip works, except with FLAC you will get much better compression because it is designed specifically for audio, and you can play back compressed FLAC files in your favorite player (or your car or home stereo, see supported devices) just like you would an MP3 file. FLAC is freely available and supported on most operating systems, including Windows, "unix" (Linux, *BSD, Solaris, OS X, IRIX), BeOS, OS/2, and Amiga. There are build systems for autotools, MSVC, Watcom C, and Project Builder.
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
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Originally posted by: LotharJade
Ogg Flac
what is FLAC? FLAC stands for Free Lossless Audio Codec. Grossly oversimplified, FLAC is similar to MP3, but lossless, meaning that audio is compressed in FLAC without any loss in quality. This is similar to how Zip works, except with FLAC you will get much better compression because it is designed specifically for audio, and you can play back compressed FLAC files in your favorite player (or your car or home stereo, see supported devices) just like you would an MP3 file. FLAC is freely available and supported on most operating systems, including Windows, "unix" (Linux, *BSD, Solaris, OS X, IRIX), BeOS, OS/2, and Amiga. There are build systems for autotools, MSVC, Watcom C, and Project Builder.
FLAC won't make things small if you want a 64kbs stream. No chance.
I think normally you can get like 300MB/CD down from 600MB/CD.
It's lossless, that means less compression that most formats, for higher quality, hence you won't be able to make FLAC files work for a 64kb steam.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
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Originally posted by: LotharJade
I kinda am curious to find the best streaming format for 64ish kbs or less. Hmmm, I wonder if Ogg Flac works that low? Basically I am finding that my favorite sites are playing MP3PRO or AACPLUS and that the players I have don't support that. I am considering trying to convice them to one of the Ogg open source formats and trying to get a player that plays that. Not sure how to convince, but if I had data showing that it rocked hard and was free, things might be a little easier.

my link....
 

brxndxn

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2001
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For some reason, with about 10 songs so far (from allofmp3.com) encoded at the same bitrate, the high treble range sounds better in Ogg than with Mp3. This is probby just to my ears.. but it is consistent with every song. So, I get Ogg now. I used Sure E2C's, Sennheiser (forget model) headphones, crappy speakers, and Athena HT speakers.. sounds better on all for me.

 

Gurck

Banned
Mar 16, 2004
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Originally posted by: brxndxn
For some reason, with about 10 songs so far (from allofmp3.com) encoded at the same bitrate, the high treble range sounds better in Ogg than with Mp3. This is probby just to my ears.. but it is consistent with every song. So, I get Ogg now. I used Sure E2C's, Sennheiser (forget model) headphones, crappy speakers, and Athena HT speakers.. sounds better on all for me.
It's not just your ears, even 320bit mp3 has problems with high frequencies which can be picked up on even mid-grade equipment. It's the oldest and least capable of the common current formats.
 

LotharJade

Senior member
Feb 12, 2003
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Um, can anyone give me an example (file sizes) of a song converted to MP3, MP3PRO, AACPLUS, OGG VORBIS, or OGG FLAC?
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,777
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Originally posted by: LotharJade
Um, can anyone give me an example (file sizes) of a song converted to MP3, MP3PRO, AACPLUS, OGG VORBIS, or OGG FLAC?
Just make one using dpoweramp lazy:p
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
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Originally posted by: LotharJade
Um, can anyone give me an example (file sizes) of a song converted to MP3, MP3PRO, AACPLUS, OGG VORBIS, or OGG FLAC?
size depends on bitrate selected. no magic. lossless is lossless and is about 1/2 size of original.
 

thecoolnessrune

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
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I still prefer OGG. It's open-source instead of the proprietary MP3PRO. That makes it cost money to produce codecs. Depending on the greediness of the creator. I don't know if AAC is proprietary. Maybe Sony just wants it to make it look like they own it :)
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
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mp3 is more universal though. never have to worry if a device is gonna support it.
 

Dubb

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Mar 25, 2003
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For clarification:

ogg is not a codec, it's a wrapper. typically it wraps the vorbis codec, but can wrap others, including flac - hence references to ogg vorbis and ogg flac, etc.

I'm still highly suspicious of proprietary codecs, I've never trusted AAC, and never heard of mp3pro. it would take quite an improvement in sound qality-for-a-given-filesize to get me to switch from ogg vorbis (it would also have to find support on a quality portable player....)

ogg and mp3 are pretty standard now, most mp3 players will also play at least some levels of ogg vorbis. (ipod does not, BTW). q7 vbr ogg vorbis works out to about 1/5 to 1/4 the size of the same file in straight up flac, and is near indistinguishable from the flac on all but the best setups
 

Pepsi90919

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,162
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MP3Pro came out forever ago and is owned by Thomson. If you play them on normal mp3 players they sound like 64kbps sh1t.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
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91
Originally posted by: Dubb
For clarification:

ogg is not a codec, it's a wrapper. typically it wraps the vorbis codec, but can wrap others, including flac - hence references to ogg vorbis and ogg flac, etc.

I'm still highly suspicious of proprietary codecs, I've never trusted AAC, and never heard of mp3pro. it would take quite an improvement in sound qality-for-a-given-filesize to get me to switch from ogg vorbis (it would also have to find support on a quality portable player....)

ogg and mp3 are pretty standard now, most mp3 players will also play at least some levels of ogg vorbis. (ipod does not, BTW). q7 vbr ogg vorbis works out to about 1/5 to 1/4 the size of the same file in straight up flac, and is near indistinguishable from the flac on all but the best setups
aac is mpeg standard.
 

aplefka

Lifer
Feb 29, 2004
12,016
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Originally posted by: Dubb
For clarification:

ogg is not a codec, it's a wrapper. typically it wraps the vorbis codec, but can wrap others, including flac - hence references to ogg vorbis and ogg flac, etc.

I'm still highly suspicious of proprietary codecs, I've never trusted AAC, and never heard of mp3pro. it would take quite an improvement in sound qality-for-a-given-filesize to get me to switch from ogg vorbis (it would also have to find support on a quality portable player....)

ogg and mp3 are pretty standard now, most mp3 players will also play at least some levels of ogg vorbis. (ipod does not, BTW). q7 vbr ogg vorbis works out to about 1/5 to 1/4 the size of the same file in straight up flac, and is near indistinguishable from the flac on all but the best setups
Incorrect. You can make your iPod play OGG Vorbis. It's one of the things they show in this month's MaximumPC issue.
 

Gurck

Banned
Mar 16, 2004
12,963
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Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
aac is mpeg standard.
Unfortunately it enjoys very little support and isn't oss. Ogg-vorbis still wins.
Originally posted by: aplefka
You can make your iPod play OGG Vorbis. It's one of the things they show in this month's MaximumPC issue.
Details?
 

Rock Hydra

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2004
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Originally posted by: Gurck
Originally posted by: aplefka
You can make your iPod play OGG Vorbis. It's one of the things they show in this month's MaximumPC issue.
Details?
I am interested as well. Lack of OGG Vorbis suppport is what's keeping me from buying an iPod. Unfortunately all of my stuff is in mp3. (son of a b#tch. :| I knew I should have used OGG.)
 

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