OFFICIAL THREAD: The Last of Us 2

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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,024
5,905
126
Thinking the writing is bad is being a cry baby? OK...

People have different opinions on things...
There is a difference between bad writing and not liking the story.

I don't like open world games and had/have absolutely no interest in games like Red Dead Revolver 2 or Spiderman but that doesn't mean they are bad games.
 

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
3,982
839
136
Yes, flaming developers and making blatant efforts to shame and even threaten the Naughty Dog team because the story went in a direction that you don't approve of is childish and stupid. Seriously, it's a GAME... re-evaluate your lives people. It's not a developer's fault if consumers aren't ecstatic over the writing of a fictional story... Naughty Dog isn't going to be Annie Wilkes'd by idiots, that's for sure.

The brutal demise of a main character, at the hands of another lesser-known character, is designed to be heart-breaking and moving; it paints a picture of raw realism (a rare feature in games) that perhaps only reasonable and/or open-minded people will understand and empathize.
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,024
5,905
126
Yes, flaming developers and making blatant efforts to shame and even threaten the Naughty Dog team because the story went in a direction that you don't approve of is childish and stupid. Seriously, it's a GAME... re-evaluate your lives people. It's not a developer's fault if consumers aren't ecstatic over the writing of a fictional story... Naughty Dog isn't going to be Annie Wilkes'd by idiots, that's for sure.

The brutal demise of a main character, at the hands of another lesser-known character, is designed to be heart-breaking and moving; it paints a picture of raw realism (a rare feature in games) that perhaps only reasonable and/or open-minded people will understand and empathize.
It's a shame that it sounds like you already know the story and won't get to experience it for the first time organically while playing it.
 
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EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
3,982
839
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Haha yea I can see why you'd think that... but honestly, it's been such a long time (nearly 7 years?) since I played the first that I don't really have any sort of real connection to the franchise. I remember most of the story and characters, for the most part, but I wasn't exactly in love with it either. I kind of felt the same way about the Uncharted series... quite honestly, and those were among my favorite on PS3.

Also, I'm more withdrawn from gaming then I was in the early 2010's... not by choice but just kind of happened over time. Having said that, I simply can't get around to playing everything so if I gotta save a few bucks and cheat/skip one here and there that's fine. I had every intention of re-playing the first game remastered on PS4, but alas... wasn't important enough.

Of course I'll admit that I should have just played that and skipped Days Gone, that one's on me though.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,024
5,905
126
Haha yea I can see why you'd think that... but honestly, it's been such a long time (nearly 7 years?) since I played the first that I don't really have any sort of real connection to the franchise. I remember most of the story and characters, for the most part, but I wasn't exactly in love with it either. I kind of felt the same way about the Uncharted series... quite honestly, and those were among my favorite on PS3.

Also, I'm more withdrawn from gaming then I was in the early 2010's... not by choice but just kind of happened over time. Having said that, I simply can't get around to playing everything so if I gotta save a few bucks and cheat/skip one here and there that's fine. I had every intention of re-playing the first game remastered on PS4, but alas... wasn't important enough.

Of course I'll admit that I should have just played that and skipped Days Gone, that one's on me though.
I had no special attachment to the franchise either. I only played TLOU at launch when it came out and never since, so it was back in 2013 I believe when it came out. And while I think it started off very slowly (first 2-3 hours) I ended up really enjoying it big time. And Naughty Dog pretty much always delivers.

But watching the story unfold first time while experiencing it yourself (and playing it, not watching someone else playing it) is something that simply cannot be reproduced ever again.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,079
136
Yahtzee lays into it pretty hard.

Dont watch if you were one of the people who said "10 / 10!!"
 

Dranoche

Senior member
Jul 6, 2009
302
68
101
His half-serious, half-joking summary at the start was "miserable". Even though I loved the game I can see how that is true in multiple ways. He didn't like the story and character development (or lack thereof) and thought it went too long. Valid complaints. Personal perception of each those items are likely to swing pretty hard in one direction or the other depending on your individual expectations or desires. He seemed fine with the gameplay. Not exceptionally impressed but indicated it was good and then mostly left it at that.
 

JPB

Diamond Member
Jul 4, 2005
4,064
89
91
Decided to just pay almost the full price for it...instead of waiting. It will be here on Monday. And Purebeast...is was your posts that enticed me. Kinda glad it did too :)
 
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sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,241
638
126
I'm only 9hrs into the last of us part 2. Technically, wow what a game in terms of graphics, animations, and just the combat itself.

Story wise, wow did not expect that so far but while I'm upset even though I saw some spoilers I definitely can't wait to continue playing more.

This game got so much hate from independent reviewers and other users. I don't get it and even I was sent spoilers to my inbox. I'm still enjoying the game a ton.

They did say you probably won't like the way this one goes if you loved the first one.

I also will say you can not just watch someone play it, you have to experience it for yourself. Do yourself a favor and play it with a headset!
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,024
5,905
126
I'm only 9hrs into the last of us part 2. Technically, wow what a game in terms of graphics, animations, and just the combat itself.

Story wise, wow did not expect that so far but while I'm upset even though I saw some spoilers I definitely can't wait to continue playing more.

This game got so much hate from independent reviewers and other users. I don't get it and even I was sent spoilers to my inbox. I'm still enjoying the game a ton.

They did say you probably won't like the way this one goes if you loved the first one.

I also will say you can not just watch someone play it, you have to experience it for yourself. Do yourself a favor and play it with a headset!
The majority of the hate is from people who don't even own PS4 and read spoilers 2 months ago and decided it was the worst game ever.

There are some valid complaints and I can understand personal opinion if you don't like how certain things go and wanted it to go another direction, but again, the majority of stuff I've heard is from people who had made up their mind months before the game was even out that they hated it, and then they just used the spoilers being accurate to feel good about being right in their decision.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,241
638
126
The majority of the hate is from people who don't even own PS4 and read spoilers 2 months ago and decided it was the worst game ever.

There are some valid complaints and I can understand personal opinion if you don't like how certain things go and wanted it to go another direction, but again, the majority of stuff I've heard is from people who had made up their mind months before the game was even out that they hated it, and then they just used the spoilers being accurate to feel good about being right in their decision.
Absolutely agree. These people made up their minds about the game as soon as the leaks came out and that was it. It's sort of become popular to hate on it too as I have seen several YouTube streamers constantly complain about it. Generally since it will bring in clicks and views.

I am taking my time with the game. Exploring as much as I can. I already can tell I don't want it to end because I'm having a good time with it.

I feel like I should have gone back and played part 1 first and then started part 2. Despite having played the first game 3 times already in the span of years since it's been out.
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,024
5,905
126
Absolutely agree. These people made up their minds about the game as soon as the leaks came out and that was it. It's sort of become popular to hate on it too as I have seen several YouTube streamers constantly complain about it. Generally since it will bring in clicks and views.

I am taking my time with the game. Exploring as much as I can. I already can tell I don't want it to end because I'm having a good time with it.

I feel like I should have gone back and played part 1 first and then started part 2. Despite having played the first game 3 times already in the span of years since it's been out.
Well I can tell you it's a long ass game. My total play time was just over 27 hours by the save time stamp in the game, so more if you include my deaths and stuff. I'd say I explored quite a bit too.
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,512
7,766
136
I've watched my fair share of Youtubers who hate the game even after they've played it, and it just made me agree even more so with Naughty Dog, specifically Neil Druckman, that it is impossible to make a game this bold without pissing a few people off. You have players who just want to rampage through the levels and kill everything in sight, skip all the emotionally heavy content, skip the cut scenes, and then be confused why the ending turned out the way it was, resulting in them hating the game and/or story. I am glad that they are in the minority because the game has been a success, financially and critically, which it so rightly deserves. In order to enjoy this game to the fullest, you have to be 100% open with what's being presented to you and acknowledge that every player will come out of this game with a different interpretation.

Some critics wonder why a game that was sold as being about violence and revenge push the agenda of making violence feel bad or why there wasn't more of it, but that's beyond the point. In one of the Spoilercast episodes where they have Neil, Ashley, and Troy as guests, Neil even says something along the lines of "Some people say that the game is emotionally manipulative or that it's just trying to teach people that violence is bad... No! The game just presents you raw information and it is up to the player to interpret what they get out of it for themselves". From my own experience playing this game, this is absolutely true. At the end of the day, the characters are all nuanced in their own ways, make decisions that make sense based on their personality regardless if it is considered "good" or "bad", and conclude their story arcs having both lost and gained something meaningful to them. That's it. There isn't a moral to this story that ND tries to impose on the player; there isn't some final PSA statement at the end of the game that reads "Violence is bad and don't do drugs, mmkay". If I signed up to join the Army and then complained that the military is emotionally manipulating me to hate violence, that wouldn't be fair to the Army because violence and death is just the reality of the job and the Army's purpose or goal isn't to make me feel bad about it. The same is true for this game. The player is literally just experiencing a portion of the character's lives by living in the shoes of these characters and nothing more. What the player takes out of it is a reflection on the player and how they view the world. If the player hates violence and the game thrusts them into the middle of it, well good job, the player has re-asserted their dislike of violence. Don't blame the game for making you feel bad when you go around killing things.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,024
5,905
126
I like that term "emotionally manipulative" because that definitely describes how I felt at times.

Like when I was Abby I did not want to have to fight Ellie, but you have to because that's the story. But like, I genuinely did not want that to happen so it messed with me.

And at the very very end when you are Ellie and drowning Abby, I did not want to kill her and wanted to let her go. I was like legit tearing up as I'm massing the square button to drown here saying outloud to myself "NNOO! DON'T DO IT!"

I have never once in my life in any game I've played ever felt that way before.

I think it's just a sum of everything they do so perfect in the game with the storytelling, and the OST in this game is just the best I've ever experienced. The music playing at these parts just drives up the emotional response and playing in my home theater made it even more emotional.
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,512
7,766
136
I wouldn't call it manipulation per se because I feel like manipulation implies something is done unfairly or underhandedly. I didn't get a sense that ND was trying to brainwash me or anything of that sort. Don't get me wrong, there were definitely moments where I did not want to go through with it, but that was out of empathy with the characters and knowing what I know about them and also knowing what they don't know. It's fairly common in a game or movie that the audience only sees the perspective of the protagonist and nothing else, but what's bold about this game is that ND gives us more than one perspective in TLOU2 and goes "Make of it what you will". Like watching a movie, we (the audience/player) get to enjoy a 10-mile high perspective by seeing all sides of the picture. The characters do not have that luxury, so when we get that urge to be an arbitrator for the characters, I think it is because our knowledge of the situation combined with our empathy. Mind you, some people do not feel this way about the characters at all and would have wanted the game to end entirely differently. It wasn't like ND manipulated them into believing that's what should have happened either; I just think their empathy didn't kick in, or that they were still holding onto a grudge from what happens earlier in the story, which I think is a very human reaction to it all: some people move on faster than others, which is very meta considering the content of the game.

Long story short, If I had sat down with my brother and watched him play through the game instead of I, I think I'd have the exact same reaction to the game as if I had played it. Whether or not the game forced my brother or I to go through with certain actions wouldn't have changed how I felt about how I wanted those actions to end.

I will add that I am very glad you and I got a similar reaction out of the game. I agree with you that not many games have a story laid out like this and make you connect with the characters so deeply. ND could have rearranged the story to make things... let's say... more palatable, but their goal is to tell a story that the player can relate to, and so I think what they did was one of the best ways to do just that.
 
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JPB

Diamond Member
Jul 4, 2005
4,064
89
91
I like that term "emotionally manipulative" because that definitely describes how I felt at times.

Like when I was Abby I did not want to have to fight Ellie, but you have to because that's the story. But like, I genuinely did not want that to happen so it messed with me.

And at the very very end when you are Ellie and drowning Abby, I did not want to kill her and wanted to let her go. I was like legit tearing up as I'm massing the square button to drown here saying outloud to myself "NNOO! DON'T DO IT!"

I have never once in my life in any game I've played ever felt that way before.

I think it's just a sum of everything they do so perfect in the game with the storytelling, and the OST in this game is just the best I've ever experienced. The music playing at these parts just drives up the emotional response and playing in my home theater made it even more emotional.
I am now about 8 hours into the game. And the only thing I can say about the game is this.....I echo every world Purebeast has said about the game. I love the game....Probably put in more time today as well.

But I will say this to the people knocking the game. Unless you play it.....and see for yourself what it is about....why bash it based on other peoples opinions ? Chances are you may actually like the game. And all the people are doing that hasnt played it and calls it bad, is just missing out.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,241
638
126
I'm 14hrs in and still loving it. The suspense at some points is crazy. I do have to say it's much harder to sneak around in this game vs the first one.

I almost always end up fighting enemies after some silent kills. Specifically when there are dogs hunting you.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,024
5,905
126
I forgot to post this video here a while ago. This guy makes this game look like a completely different game than what I played lol. It's got some spoilers for some of the Ellie gameplay but it's just really some of the different encounters. No story spoiling really.

 

WhiteNoise

Golden Member
Jun 22, 2016
1,075
186
106
The Last of Us is my all time favorite game. Period. I had very high hopes for The Last of Us 2 and so far I have not been let down. Amazing story, fantastic writing, beautiful settings, a game that has emotionally affected me. Just like the first one. A story of revenge. A story of going after the bad guy and turning into a monster to do it. Seeing the story from two perspectives. Hating the enemy then slowly understanding.

I'm a fan for sure.


/edit this is why i do not rely on reviews. Reviews from users tell me I shouldn't waste my time with this trash. I'm glad I can think for myself.
 
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Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,448
262
126
I beat TLOU back in 2014 or 2015 maybe, was one of my favorite games. And then when I saw TLOU2 wasn't going to be anywhere near early part of PS4 lifecycle, I put off buying a PS4.

Never did end up getting a PS4 but now I want to play this. Might have to borrow my friend's console just for this. Good to hear the controls are better, that was probably my biggest gripe on the first game. But if they made it harder to sneak, that's doesn't sound amazing.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,241
638
126
I beat TLOU back in 2014 or 2015 maybe, was one of my favorite games. And then when I saw TLOU2 wasn't going to be anywhere near early part of PS4 lifecycle, I put off buying a PS4.

Never did end up getting a PS4 but now I want to play this. Might have to borrow my friend's console just for this. Good to hear the controls are better, that was probably my biggest gripe on the first game. But if they made it harder to sneak, that's doesn't sound amazing.
You can sneak around they just made the enemy AI better, added dog patrols, etc. You definitely can be silent and move around, there are more pathways.
 
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JPB

Diamond Member
Jul 4, 2005
4,064
89
91
I am now about 8 hours into the game. And the only thing I can say about the game is this.....I echo every world Purebeast has said about the game. I love the game....Probably put in more time today as well.

But I will say this to the people knocking the game. Unless you play it.....and see for yourself what it is about....why bash it based on other peoples opinions ? Chances are you may actually like the game. And all the people are doing that hasnt played it and calls it bad, is just missing out.
I am now 21 hours in. And still loving the game. So far Purebeast has been spot on in his opinions of the game. My next time playing im going to finish the game...which will be tomorrow. The game is emotional, just ask my wife. Im just not sure what to start playing after this one.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,024
5,905
126
I am now 21 hours in. And still loving the game. So far Purebeast has been spot on in his opinions of the game. My next time playing im going to finish the game...which will be tomorrow. The game is emotional, just ask my wife. Im just not sure what to start playing after this one.
You gonna have a long play session next time if you are 21 hours into it and plan to finish it. Unless you are a speed demon.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,241
638
126
I think I'm 18hrs in now, maybe more I'm not sure. The flooded Seattle portion with a boat. Going back and forth from this game and ghost of tsushima. I can already tell I'm not gonna be happy when the journey ends because Im enjoying it a ton.

My hope is I'll probably replay last of us part 2 when the ps5 comes out. They may or may not patch it for an upgrade but if they do, it would be cool.
 
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JPB

Diamond Member
Jul 4, 2005
4,064
89
91
You gonna have a long play session next time if you are 21 hours into it and plan to finish it. Unless you are a speed demon.
Oops...my bad. I thought it was around 25 hours. I see where ya said now it was 35...give or take..