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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
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No, you said MOST, and did so again in this post. Playing a Jedi Sage, I can tell you that MOST is incorrect. Out of the ~20 skills that I had at level 18, I think maybe 7 or so were instants and only ONE was channeled (unless you count Meditation, then it's two). Out of the instants, one was sprint, two were buffs, and 2 were melee skills, one was Project and the other was Weaken Mind. The rest all had cast times.

Also, you're definition of "Channeled" is incorrect. You're speaking of DoTs (Damage over time). Channeled abilities are when your character is "actively" focusing/maintaining a "spell" while it is doing it's effect. DoTs are basically fire and forget with no need for user maintenance while it is active. Telekinetic Throw is an example of a "channeled" spell. Mind Warp is an example of a DoT spell.

Now I understand your confusion.


Nope, I'm highly correct in my statement. I said most abilities in the GAME. Not for any specific class. If you look up all abilities in the game the majority of them are insta-cast or channeled. No, I was not talking about dots, I was talking about channeled abilities when I said channeled. Meaning your character stands still for a duration to keep an effect going, however the effect is the same constant effect that happens a little bit over time from start to finish. Moving cancels the channeled effect. For example Mind Crush is a Consular ability shared by both Sages and Shadows. It specifically states it deals X amount of damage when cast and an addition amount while being channeled. You CAN cast it while moving. You get one single tick of damage of the effect and nothing else because moving cancels it immediately. Some of the channeled abilities force you to not be moving to even start casting them, but those are even rarer out of all the abilities in the game.

Telekinetic Throw and Mind Crush are BOTH channeled abilities. They can be interrupted and neither continues to have an effect once they are interrupted. Both of them require the user to stand still. However, Mind Crush can be cast WHILE MOVING and you still get a single tick of damage off on your opponent for doing so. Telekinetic Throw is one of the other channeled abilities that require you to be standing still to even start channeling the ability. I did make the mistake earlier and said you can use Telekinetic Throw while moving.
 

maniacalpha1-1

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,562
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Oh, can't believe I didn't think to ask this...since we are talking about spells...do you have to skill up your casting skills and until you do you have a high chance to fizzle?
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
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Oh, can't believe I didn't think to ask this...since we are talking about spells...do you have to skill up your casting skills and until you do you have a high chance to fizzle?

No fizzles. There is no "skill" ups at all in this game. You have the ability and you use it. If it is an ability that requires accuracy then it may miss or be deflected. If it is an ability that can be resisted then that may also happen. But there is no fizzling.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,674
146
106
www.neftastic.com
Nope, I'm highly correct in my statement. I said most abilities in the GAME. Not for any specific class. If you look up all abilities in the game the majority of them are insta-cast or channeled. No, I was not talking about dots, I was talking about channeled abilities when I said channeled. Meaning your character stands still for a duration to keep an effect going, however the effect is the same constant effect that happens a little bit over time from start to finish. Moving cancels the channeled effect. For example Mind Crush is a Consular ability shared by both Sages and Shadows. It specifically states it deals X amount of damage when cast and an addition amount while being channeled. You CAN cast it while moving. You get one single tick of damage of the effect and nothing else because moving cancels it immediately. Some of the channeled abilities force you to not be moving to even start casting them, but those are even rarer out of all the abilities in the game.

Telekinetic Throw and Mind Crush are BOTH channeled abilities. They can be interrupted and neither continues to have an effect once they are interrupted. Both of them require the user to stand still. However, Mind Crush can be cast WHILE MOVING and you still get a single tick of damage off on your opponent for doing so. Telekinetic Throw is one of the other channeled abilities that require you to be standing still to even start channeling the ability. I did make the mistake earlier and said you can use Telekinetic Throw while moving.

Mind Crush is not a channeled ability, it's a DoT. It also has a 2 second cast time, not instant. It can not be cast while moving, or it will interrupt the casting timer.

Jedi Sages get an additional similar ability - Weaken Mind - which is also a DoT, but is instant cast and may be cast while moving.

I will also retract my insistence that "Most" abilities are not instant or channeled, given that the bulk of the classes are melee oriented. A quick glance over the melee skills does indeed reiterate that, which is my error given I thought it was implied that melee classes traditionally DON'T have cast times on their abilities (in most MMO's) as that would be counter-intuitive to the class. I was referring to (and thereby assumed you were as well) classes with "spell-like abilities". My apologies for the confusion there.
 
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crimsonjax

Member
Oct 16, 2011
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And some good news for those that got early access, don't unistall the game, this beta client will be patchable up to the final release build. So you are supposed to be able to save yourself a good chunk of D/L time (like not having to D/L the sound files and such).

I was just about to ask that! So, I'll just have to type in key code and good to go?
 

maniacalpha1-1

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,562
14
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And some good news for those that got early access, don't unistall the game, this beta client will be patchable up to the final release build. So you are supposed to be able to save yourself a good chunk of D/L time (like not having to D/L the sound files and such).

That actually makes sense. Games like this are a work in progress at all times, ongoing fixes and design changes year round. An MMORPG can have major changes over a few years. There's little point in compiling it all into a different release version.

Are they planning to have a "Test" server where patches are tested before general issue?
 

Coydog

Member
Nov 4, 2011
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I was just about to ask that! So, I'll just have to type in key code and good to go?

I just got off the phone with EA and pretty much that's it. They told me that the key code + pre-order code are pretty much the same thing. Will take that answer for now since I lost my emails.

That actually makes sense. Games like this are a work in progress at all times, ongoing fixes and design changes year round. An MMORPG can have major changes over a few years. There's little point in compiling it all into a different release version.

Are they planning to have a "Test" server where patches are tested before general issue?

I don't know about that, but think they would. Also, got to realize that it appears there are a lot of people who never played an MMO before and bitch an moan about how stuff is going to be released after launch etc. They are very much used to games that are not evolving and rather static (in that the game then and the game now are very much the same).
 

maniacalpha1-1

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,562
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As of right now, what is the most surviveable PvP class, both in 1 on 1 and multiplayer enggagement? Meaning not necessarily the one that will win but the one that can survive without dying if he chooses to do so, whether by outrunning the enemy, putting up some kind of shield, etc, completely independent of ability to kill.

If any class stands out in that way I think it's what I'd play.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
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As of right now, what is the most surviveable PvP class, both in 1 on 1 and multiplayer enggagement? Meaning not necessarily the one that will win but the one that can survive without dying if he chooses to do so, whether by outrunning the enemy, putting up some kind of shield, etc, completely independent of ability to kill.

If any class stands out in that way I think it's what I'd play.

Healers. As I said several times already, healers can just run around spamming heals on themselves since true healers have insta cast heals and HoTs along with plenty of CC as well. NO ONE can kill a healer 1v1 who is doing this. As long as the healer focuses on running around constantly, healing themselves, and CCing as they can they are invincible 1v1. They won't kill anyone else either doing this, but they make for a great distraction while the rest of their team comes over to help.
 

maniacalpha1-1

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,562
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Healers. As I said several times already, healers can just run around spamming heals on themselves since true healers have insta cast heals and HoTs along with plenty of CC as well. NO ONE can kill a healer 1v1 who is doing this. As long as the healer focuses on running around constantly, healing themselves, and CCing as they can they are invincible 1v1. They won't kill anyone else either doing this, but they make for a great distraction while the rest of their team comes over to help.

Hmm, that might work out well. Was a cleric for several years...
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
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As I said several times already, healers can just run around spamming heals on themselves since true healers have insta cast heals and HoTs along with plenty of CC as well. NO ONE can kill a healer 1v1 who is doing this.

No one who is in the running for the worst MMO player in history? Seriously, this is BS at the very least for the beginning part of the game.

By level 30 as a SS you have 3 heals and a shield. One heal is insta cast with a HOT- heals for ~300 and ticks for ~100 at level 30 and has a fairly lengthy CD. One is a 1.5 second cast, heals for ~500. One is a 2.5 second cast(unless chained with the insta cast which cuts 1 second off for one cast after instant cast when talented) and healt for ~900 and crits for ~1300. All of these cost around 50 force points give or take a few depending on talents(you can get up to 9% mana reduction if you spec outside the healing tree, but that reduces the ability to heal). You also have a shield that you can use that has a lengthy CD and absorbs around 2K ish. You have under 700 force points in typical gear at this point which gives you about 14 heals, factoring in mana regen you get about another 3. Shield debuff only allows it to be cast on someone once ever 30 seconds.

Start off with shield up, you get the first 2K Absorbed, by level 30 this should take about 7 seconds for a dps to burn through without using any CDs(23 seconds left on shield debuff). Within a few seconds the SS would need to pop their HOT and get some heals rolling(~20 seconds left on shield debuff), within five seconds of that they would need to cast their big heal(~15 seconds left on shield debuff), within five seconds another big heal(5+2.5- 7.5 seconds on debuff), big heal(5 seconds), insta hot(3.5 seconds), big heal(1.0 second), another shield, that gives them a breather and they can regen some force points, and they are at half force points. Run through the same cycle and they are out of force points. A little over a minute and they are an easy kill if they spend no force points on attacking you at all. Yes, it takes a bit longer to kill a healer then a dps class, but their is minimal risk and they aren't difficult to kill if you don't suck in a profound manner at the early stages of the game at least.

Anyone who has any MMO experience and played a healer they are quite weak compared to any other recent MMO that I can think of in PVP at least in the beginning of the game. They go "oom" significantly faster and their heals only barely outpace a players dps(they are slower then a players dps to start with by a decent amount, even another healers).

Healers take longer to kill then other dps/tanks, but they aren't remotely close to being in the league of say a resto druid in TBC for difficulty to handle at least in the beginning of the game. Things may change later on, but unless you suck you should be able to handle a healer 1v1 easily in this game.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
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No one who is in the running for the worst MMO player in history? Seriously, this is BS at the very least for the beginning part of the game.

By level 30 as a SS you have 3 heals and a shield. One heal is insta cast with a HOT- heals for ~300 and ticks for ~100 at level 30 and has a fairly lengthy CD. One is a 1.5 second cast, heals for ~500. One is a 2.5 second cast(unless chained with the insta cast which cuts 1 second off for one cast after instant cast when talented) and healt for ~900 and crits for ~1300. All of these cost around 50 force points give or take a few depending on talents(you can get up to 9% mana reduction if you spec outside the healing tree, but that reduces the ability to heal). You also have a shield that you can use that has a lengthy CD and absorbs around 2K ish. You have under 700 force points in typical gear at this point which gives you about 14 heals, factoring in mana regen you get about another 3. Shield debuff only allows it to be cast on someone once ever 30 seconds.

Start off with shield up, you get the first 2K Absorbed, by level 30 this should take about 7 seconds for a dps to burn through without using any CDs(23 seconds left on shield debuff). Within a few seconds the SS would need to pop their HOT and get some heals rolling(~20 seconds left on shield debuff), within five seconds of that they would need to cast their big heal(~15 seconds left on shield debuff), within five seconds another big heal(5+2.5- 7.5 seconds on debuff), big heal(5 seconds), insta hot(3.5 seconds), big heal(1.0 second), another shield, that gives them a breather and they can regen some force points, and they are at half force points. Run through the same cycle and they are out of force points. A little over a minute and they are an easy kill if they spend no force points on attacking you at all. Yes, it takes a bit longer to kill a healer then a dps class, but their is minimal risk and they aren't difficult to kill if you don't suck in a profound manner at the early stages of the game at least.

Anyone who has any MMO experience and played a healer they are quite weak compared to any other recent MMO that I can think of in PVP at least in the beginning of the game. They go "oom" significantly faster and their heals only barely outpace a players dps(they are slower then a players dps to start with by a decent amount, even another healers).

Healers take longer to kill then other dps/tanks, but they aren't remotely close to being in the league of say a resto druid in TBC for difficulty to handle at least in the beginning of the game. Things may change later on, but unless you suck you should be able to handle a healer 1v1 easily in this game.

Yah but there are several things you are not factoring in.

1) Healers can have absurdly high armor values in this game. Talking damn near tank levels and in the case of the Mercenary or the Commando they ARE at tank level of armor.

2) Healers can have ridiculous Endurance values for retarded amounts of HPs and damage reduction because of that WITHOUT sacrificing any healing or offensive potential.

3) No one stands still in pvp. A good healer is timing their movement to run around walls, crates, drop off ledges and such as to break line of sight which will break quite a bit of any attack the other person is using.

there are a few other factors but basically the healers in this game feel like Age of Conan healers when that game first came out. Best tanks, CCers, Healers, and DPS all rolled into one class is what the Mithra and Set Priests were like at AoC release. Playing any other class was just stupid. While SWTOR healers aren't quite THAT overpowered, they are damn close to the over poweredness of the AoC healers at release. The only good thing is that SWTOR doesn't have any bad classes at least unlike AoC. Which means while most classes can't really kill a healer 1v1, they aren't usually going to be killed 1v1 against a healer either.
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
Yah but there are several things you are not factoring in.

That was peak healing for a pure healer build. Healers in this game are very weak in relative terms.

1) Healers can have absurdly high armor values in this game.

As they can in most games. Pallys in WoW are likely the most popular, they even pack a shield too. Clerics in Rift also fall under this category if they use the proper Mien.

2) Healers can have ridiculous Endurance values for retarded amounts of HPs and damage reduction because of that WITHOUT sacrificing any healing or offensive potential.

No, they can't. Items have stat valuation in TOR just like every other MMO. Yes, you can get a good mix of endurance in this game along with other stats, but in terms of min/max there is a rather large difference.

3) No one stands still in pvp.

If a healer is moving non stop in pvp in TOR and you can't kill them you are likely the poorest player ever to touch a MMO ;) They have one insta cast heal that is enough to offset one decent crit and it is on a ~15 second CD. You can only hit them once or twice every 15 seconds? I've played many MMOs and logged several hundred days into them playing all sorts of classes. If you are having trouble with the healers in TOR atm then perhaps MMOs are not a good choice for you. They are actually rather badly underpowered in pvp, enough so that they are probably going to get a fairly large buff in the not too distant future.

Which means while most classes can't really kill a healer 1v1

Which classes can't kill a healer 1v1? I'm currently in a top 50 guild in the world for Rift, and am one of the MHs, used to 2 heal ZA bear runs and finish off the raid with 2 heals without any T5 or T6 gear at all on one of my alts, was in the ~2K bracket for TBC in arenas, and it seemed to me that every class could kill me without much effort in TOR if I made any mistakes- even if I didn't make any mistakes if they didn't either I was dead.

I've had overpowered healers in pvp before, TOR is so far removed from that atm it is pretty comical honestly. To quote another player-

I had no problem killing SS as a Jedi Shadow.

That isn't abnormal, dps is barely behind what people can heal for- and healers go "OOM" much faster then dps.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
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That was peak healing for a pure healer build. Healers in this game are very weak in relative terms.



As they can in most games. Pallys in WoW are likely the most popular, they even pack a shield too. Clerics in Rift also fall under this category if they use the proper Mien.



No, they can't. Items have stat valuation in TOR just like every other MMO. Yes, you can get a good mix of endurance in this game along with other stats, but in terms of min/max there is a rather large difference.



If a healer is moving non stop in pvp in TOR and you can't kill them you are likely the poorest player ever to touch a MMO ;) They have one insta cast heal that is enough to offset one decent crit and it is on a ~15 second CD. You can only hit them once or twice every 15 seconds? I've played many MMOs and logged several hundred days into them playing all sorts of classes. If you are having trouble with the healers in TOR atm then perhaps MMOs are not a good choice for you. They are actually rather badly underpowered in pvp, enough so that they are probably going to get a fairly large buff in the not too distant future.



Which classes can't kill a healer 1v1? I'm currently in a top 50 guild in the world for Rift, and am one of the MHs, used to 2 heal ZA bear runs and finish off the raid with 2 heals without any T5 or T6 gear at all on one of my alts, was in the ~2K bracket for TBC in arenas, and it seemed to me that every class could kill me without much effort in TOR if I made any mistakes- even if I didn't make any mistakes if they didn't either I was dead.

I've had overpowered healers in pvp before, TOR is so far removed from that atm it is pretty comical honestly. To quote another player-



That isn't abnormal, dps is barely behind what people can heal for- and healers go "OOM" much faster then dps.


Sorry but in 6 months of testing.. right now most of the healers in TOR are the top dogs..

mercs and commandos even in full healing spec are incrediible..
Sorcs/Sages rock as well..

Sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about in TOR.

look at the top kills in PVP and the top scorers in HB.. always the same classes..
BH's and Inquis and Commandos and Sages.. and obviously you havent ever tried the Operative or Scoundrel they are seriously OP in their DPS heal spec in PVP.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
That was peak healing for a pure healer build. Healers in this game are very weak in relative terms.



As they can in most games. Pallys in WoW are likely the most popular, they even pack a shield too. Clerics in Rift also fall under this category if they use the proper Mien.



No, they can't. Items have stat valuation in TOR just like every other MMO. Yes, you can get a good mix of endurance in this game along with other stats, but in terms of min/max there is a rather large difference.



If a healer is moving non stop in pvp in TOR and you can't kill them you are likely the poorest player ever to touch a MMO ;) They have one insta cast heal that is enough to offset one decent crit and it is on a ~15 second CD. You can only hit them once or twice every 15 seconds? I've played many MMOs and logged several hundred days into them playing all sorts of classes. If you are having trouble with the healers in TOR atm then perhaps MMOs are not a good choice for you. They are actually rather badly underpowered in pvp, enough so that they are probably going to get a fairly large buff in the not too distant future.



Which classes can't kill a healer 1v1? I'm currently in a top 50 guild in the world for Rift, and am one of the MHs, used to 2 heal ZA bear runs and finish off the raid with 2 heals without any T5 or T6 gear at all on one of my alts, was in the ~2K bracket for TBC in arenas, and it seemed to me that every class could kill me without much effort in TOR if I made any mistakes- even if I didn't make any mistakes if they didn't either I was dead.

I've had overpowered healers in pvp before, TOR is so far removed from that atm it is pretty comical honestly. To quote another player-



That isn't abnormal, dps is barely behind what people can heal for- and healers go "OOM" much faster then dps.

I'm just going off my level 29 warzone pvp experience as well as several dueling experiences. Killing a healer 1v1 in SWTOR is absurdedly hard in a 1v1 situation. There are three base healer types for each armor type: light, medium, and heavy. Most good healers already have their HoT going on themselves (if they can) constantly.

Light armor types which are the Sage and Sorcerer have more CC's at their disposale than the other two types to make up for their lack of armor. Doing good damage hits to them is not hard. But they fact they can push you away, stun you, lift you, and do it all during combat very easily while at the same time having access to high levels of healing and hitpoints is silly. For reference light armor typically comes with Willpower and Endurance very easily. Endurance grants hitpoints and damage reduction. Willpower for the light healers grants stronger heals. It isn't hard for light healing classes to reach absurd levels of either as almost all the light armor in the game has those two base stats. Add in later level items that have Power and Surge stats and those two make healers just do it even better. They have an heal over time ability they can keep going, an insta heal, and a 1.5 second heal that is pretty easy to cast. One force knock back gives you enough room to cast it if needed. And yes, all they have to do is run around using walls, crates, and other obstacles to break LoS. Out of all the healers though, they are technically easier to burst down comparatively. If you can get them jump on them and get some good CC off on them first, then it is possible to kill these the easiest. But if you do not kill them before you are out of force/ammo/ability power then you are not ever going to kill them 1v1.

Medium armor types are the Scoundrel and Sith Operative. They use medium armor and have decent amount of CC, but not as much as the light types. No early major AoE knockback for example. They DO have a little handy skill called take cover which makes them jump and roll behind an obstacle to increase their defenses more so than breaking LoS would do. They do actually have one more insta cast healing ability though compared to the other two healer types. They are also more designed to cast more abilities on the run as they are designed as run and gun base chars. With the medium armor they are harder to burst down and typically you won't.

Heavy armor types are the Commando and Mercenary. Technically they have the weakest heals and some party only heals compared to the other two healers. Meaning those heals they can't use on themselves. They do make up for it by basically being a tank with self heals. They are in heavy armor. They have the least amount of CC of all the healers as well. They still get stuns and mezzes, but not like the other two types. They do have access to more knockback effects as "softer" style of CC instead of a lock down version. No real slows either. Still the heavy armor makes it very difficult to burst them down.

For one more thing, both the medium and heavy armor types of healing are Tech based healing as opposed to the light armor healers which are Force based. As such heals for Light types is based off Willpower and heals for medium/heavy are based off Cunning. Both of those stats easily come with Endurance for itemization stats for their repsective classes. Which makes it very easy to reach absurd levels of endurance and healing power as I stated in my previous post. Which means ALL healers should have high life and damage reduction as well as strong heals based off their stats. All the different types of healers do their jobs differently, but they get the job done. In PvP the light and medium armors can basically run around using insta cast or low cast time CC's to lock you down while they heal themselves. It doesn't take much to heal themselves to full either. Any while they can go OOM as you put it, the base regen rate can both be increased and is already pretty fast for them to use another. Not to mention any attacker is also going to be OOM fast if they try to burst them down. Considering an attacker must blow 2 CC's (one to force the healer to use their CC breaking ability) and then do what they can with their hardest hitting abilities. If the attacker can't kill their target in that small time frame window it is very unlikely they will be able to kill them at all afterwards.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
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Just 1 correction to HB.. Commandos and Mercs use Aim for their heal/damage stat.. where ops and scouns use cunning.

but yes 100% on the money..
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
For more reference I have quite a few guildies that were playing healing specced classes of all types during the beta. They could CONSTANTLY go up to 1v4 and still live for long periods of time if all they focused on doing was self healing, ccing, and running around. So long as they weren't focused on trying to kill anyone but just stay standing alive for as long as possible it was easy for them to do so. Which makes healers AWESOME for standing around defending tower points in Alderaan. They are absurdly hard to push off those points. I saw a team of ALL healers in Alderaan once. 6 healers and there wasn't a damn thing the other team could do to kill them. It was a guild group team that went in there thinking they were being funny. What was funny was how OP in Alderaan they were. Not a single one of them died once. NOT ONCE. They held all three towers the entire time. I think they had 3 or 4 kills total the entire match. Beyond that it was just stupid how easy it was for them to win that warzone. The other side eventually just gave up and stopped going after the points as there was ZERO way for them to take 2 healers per defense point. Even if all 6 players of the other side tried to push a single point it couldn't be done.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Just 1 correction to HB.. Commandos and Mercs use Aim for their heal/damage stat.. where ops and scouns use cunning.

but yes 100% on the money..

Stand corrected but Aim/Endurance as a combo is on damn near every piece of Heavy armor as well.
 

flopper

Senior member
Dec 16, 2005
739
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For more reference I have quite a few guildies that were playing healing specced classes of all types during the beta. They could CONSTANTLY go up to 1v4 and still live for long periods of time if all they focused on doing was self healing, ccing, and running around. So long as they weren't focused on trying to kill anyone but just stay standing alive for as long as possible it was easy for them to do so. Which makes healers AWESOME for standing around defending tower points in Alderaan. They are absurdly hard to push off those points. I saw a team of ALL healers in Alderaan once. 6 healers and there wasn't a damn thing the other team could do to kill them. It was a guild group team that went in there thinking they were being funny. What was funny was how OP in Alderaan they were. Not a single one of them died once. NOT ONCE. They held all three towers the entire time. I think they had 3 or 4 kills total the entire match. Beyond that it was just stupid how easy it was for them to win that warzone. The other side eventually just gave up and stopped going after the points as there was ZERO way for them to take 2 healers per defense point. Even if all 6 players of the other side tried to push a single point it couldn't be done.

Likely to be fixed then.
its a difference as far I seen from earlier levels to the more higher ones.
unless they mess up there should be balancing patches.

in eq1, once a whole group went paladin and did a zonewide clearing out in plane of hate, the paladin class togheter was so OP they had to take the plane of hate down to fix it.
obviosly they fixed it.

unbalances will be fixed down the line.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
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Likely to be fixed then.
its a difference as far I seen from earlier levels to the more higher ones.
unless they mess up there should be balancing patches.

in eq1, once a whole group went paladin and did a zonewide clearing out in plane of hate, the paladin class togheter was so OP they had to take the plane of hate down to fix it.
obviosly they fixed it.

unbalances will be fixed down the line.

the problem is the 1-50 single group for PVP..
some classes dont shine until 50 where others even at L10 are amazing..

the healers are one of those the higher they get the more unkillable they get..

brackets would do far more of a balance than tuning the classes would..

but even then even at 50 agasint another 50.. its damn hard to kill some of those healing classes..
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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No one who is in the running for the worst MMO player in history? Seriously, this is BS at the very least for the beginning part of the game.

By level 30 as a SS you have 3 heals and a shield. One heal is insta cast with a HOT- heals for ~300 and ticks for ~100 at level 30 and has a fairly lengthy CD. One is a 1.5 second cast, heals for ~500. One is a 2.5 second cast(unless chained with the insta cast which cuts 1 second off for one cast after instant cast when talented) and healt for ~900 and crits for ~1300. All of these cost around 50 force points give or take a few depending on talents(you can get up to 9% mana reduction if you spec outside the healing tree, but that reduces the ability to heal). You also have a shield that you can use that has a lengthy CD and absorbs around 2K ish. You have under 700 force points in typical gear at this point which gives you about 14 heals, factoring in mana regen you get about another 3. Shield debuff only allows it to be cast on someone once ever 30 seconds.

Start off with shield up, you get the first 2K Absorbed, by level 30 this should take about 7 seconds for a dps to burn through without using any CDs(23 seconds left on shield debuff). Within a few seconds the SS would need to pop their HOT and get some heals rolling(~20 seconds left on shield debuff), within five seconds of that they would need to cast their big heal(~15 seconds left on shield debuff), within five seconds another big heal(5+2.5- 7.5 seconds on debuff), big heal(5 seconds), insta hot(3.5 seconds), big heal(1.0 second), another shield, that gives them a breather and they can regen some force points, and they are at half force points. Run through the same cycle and they are out of force points. A little over a minute and they are an easy kill if they spend no force points on attacking you at all. Yes, it takes a bit longer to kill a healer then a dps class, but their is minimal risk and they aren't difficult to kill if you don't suck in a profound manner at the early stages of the game at least.

Anyone who has any MMO experience and played a healer they are quite weak compared to any other recent MMO that I can think of in PVP at least in the beginning of the game. They go "oom" significantly faster and their heals only barely outpace a players dps(they are slower then a players dps to start with by a decent amount, even another healers).

Healers take longer to kill then other dps/tanks, but they aren't remotely close to being in the league of say a resto druid in TBC for difficulty to handle at least in the beginning of the game. Things may change later on, but unless you suck you should be able to handle a healer 1v1 easily in this game.

Goddamn cheatsy restro druids. :mad:
 

maniacalpha1-1

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,562
14
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I got one more dumb question for you guys. I looked up a couple of videos for Imperial Agent but they show gameplay from like a spectator viewpoint...

So the question is, when you are playing ranged shooter classes like this, do you actually fire your weapon like a first person shooter and your aim matters?