**OFFICIAL** Star Wars: The Old Republic Thread

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KIAman

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2001
3,342
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Played a BH-Merc to 20. I like the game so far.

My biggest grip is warzones. Why are they putting level 50s against level 10s? The bolstering system does not come near equalizing the skill trees and gear advantage the 50s have.

Please tell me this is a beta only thing.
 

SithSolo1

Diamond Member
Mar 19, 2001
7,740
11
81
I have mixed feelings on this game.

I played WoW from beta through Cata and never played Galaxies. Never played KOTOR but did play ME1/2.

I played the last beta weekend, got a Bounty Hunter to 15 and a Sith Marauder to 10. This weekend I played a Republic Trooper to 20 and a Jedi Counselor to 8. Overall ranged dps is OP, and of the two ranged I played the Bounty Hunter seemed to do even more dmg than the Trooper. I was not fond of the melee combat of the Marauder and while the force attcks of the Counselor were fun they seemed too range limited.

The main story quest for the characters was very interesting and I enjoyed doing them however the side quests and instances were hum-drum. Bonus missions are nice but I wish it were more than: Kill 15 X, now kill 30 X, now kill Y, now kill Z, Congrats have XP.

I agree with some others that it plays like a linear single player RPG with optional co-op until 20. Then it plays like a linear single player RPG with mandatory co-op.

On my Trooper I'm Light side level II with 2850 Light points and 0 Dark. Light side/Dark side points seem to only affect what loot you can buy from a few vendors at certain levels. Look at it as rep and rep vendors from WOW. Aside from that I haven't notice it affect game play or overall voice choices.

Graphics look fine with every thing turned up, however I wish some of the textures were a higher resolution. Also it would seem that, at least in our little group, it runs better on Nvidia hardware than it does on AMD. The 6 of us have similar systems but those of us with Nvidia cards seemed to have higher frame rates.


On the plus side:

Its Star Wars
Its not WOW
Voice Acting really adds to the story feel of the game
Mechanics are simple and most of the content is doable on your own until the late teens/20s
Ranged combat is fun
Player housing aka Ships
Planets all look different and are huge outside of the starter zone
You can go to any planet once you get a ship without fear of being railed as soon as you leave the port
Companions add a little flavor

My Cons:

On rails
Its not WOW
While voice acting adds to the submersion factor of the story, it also adds tons of time and makes voice communication with friends a hindrance
Navigation on the map and for some quests could use some work

Less "Choice" than I was hoping for:

4 classes per side(basically mirror images of the other side aka Bounty Hunter feels like a Trooper with different clothing)
Very limited race selection between factions and even less between classes
Only 4 body types! Are you serious?
Zero ship selection, once you pick a class you are stuck with one ship that everyone else in that class gets

Granted there is more selection than WOW but come on, this is STAR WARS, there is an entire Galaxies of species, shapes, sizes, and ship manufacturers. Would it kill you to have a little more variety available to the player base?

Parting Gripe: Companions count toward your group total

What the hell? In no shape or form are these companions even remotely comparable to a similarly geared human playing any class. At best they are equal to hunter pets in WOW.

Parting Tip: If you didn't know this by now it may be too late but once you choose a specialization there is a second tab at the bottom of your trainer for you spec skills. Why they don't keep it on one tab is beyond me.

Almost forgot one of the biggest pluses: AOE Looting!
 
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KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
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Parting Gripe: Companions count toward your group total

What the hell? In no shape or form are these companions even remotely comparable to a similarly geared human playing any class. At best they are equal to hunter pets in WOW.

Definitely agree with this. I grouped for the first time this weekend and the fact your companion is dismissed (not sure how it decided who's companion is dismissed, I guess the leader gets to keep their companion?) if your group goes over the total number of four, is quite ridiculous. Was pretty ssurprised when this happened.

KT
 

s1njin

Senior member
Apr 11, 2011
304
0
0
Is this game challenging by way of leveling (Ala vanilla WoW or EQ2 vanilla) or is it a walk in the park like most MMOs nowadays?
 

zokudu

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2009
4,364
1
81
Is this game challenging by way of leveling (Ala vanilla WoW or EQ2 vanilla) or is it a walk in the park like most MMOs nowadays?

Walk in the park. You get a neat cutscene go punch a few monsters cutscene rinse repeat. Levels go by pretty quick my my opinion and it points you on where to go. I had an issue of not taking the side quests when I first tried it but once I figured out what that minimap icon meant theyre just little things to do in the area of your main quest.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
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How is the story shaping up? I really liked KOTOR's story, you see.

it is interesting how some people say that it plays like a single player RPG for the first few levels. Is the story well-done? Can it be completed in a reasonable amount of time? Or is it more on MMO terms, takign up ridiculous amounts of time, and leaving all sorts of loose ends and ridiculous plot turns because of the MMO structure.

Also, is there phasing of the environment like in WOW? or is the world more or less static like in most MMO's?

The success of this game I think really will be in story telling. Otherwise, in terms of art style, diversity, and class combat mechanics especially (there is nothing like a WOW druid, my favorite class) this game looks inferior.

edit: and how is the end-game handled? If the end-game is PVP, great IMO. If the end-game is raiding, not so great, because raiding tends to seriously screw up the storyline IMO.
 
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SithSolo1

Diamond Member
Mar 19, 2001
7,740
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Is this game challenging by way of leveling (Ala vanilla WoW or EQ2 vanilla) or is it a walk in the park like most MMOs nowadays?

From what I saw its closer to Wrath WOW than Vanilla or BC.


How is the story shaping up? I really liked KOTOR's story, you see.

it is interesting how some people say that it plays like a single player RPG for the first few levels. Is the story well-done? Can it be completed in a reasonable amount of time?

Also, is there phasing of the environment like in WOW? or is the world more or less static like in most MMO's?

I stopped at 20 but it would appear that the story goes to near max level, also around 20 you need to group(you and 1 other) in order to do your own main story. On the plus side, everyone in your group can witness your story line while you make all the chat selections.

The world has lots of things going on in it but its still mostly static and most of the "phasing" is story driven and gated with portals keyed to your class. Once one member of a party has entered all other members can come in and will be synced with that first person's phase.
 
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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Whew, stuck at work and the test is still going! Okay, I played a LOT this weekend. I previously did one beta weekend and reached level 17. This weekend I managed to reach level 29. The game changes drastically and fast.

To preface this, the higher level I got in this game the more and more I started liking it. Well I liked it before, but now I REALLY like it. But it is not without faults. Not by a long shot.

When this weekend started, originally I had intended to play the character I had started last time. Unfortunately, Bioware decided to change all the level requirements around and introduced more than a few bugs in regards to item changes. Which basically meant my character from last time couldn't use half of her equipment and I didn't have the money to re-outfit the character properly. Realizing that while it sucked, it was beta and things like that are going to happen. It all turned out well because my guild all decided to do new characters on one of the brand new servers. I still plan on playing sith at release. So as to not ruin my experience and spoil the sith story line I have been doing the Republic for beta. Like last beta I decided to do the same thing and see if I could rebuild my character and do it better. I ended up playing as a Jedi Shadow with heavy tank focus. I managed to reach level 29 before crashing out last night so I can now say I have a broader perspective to give as I tried out several things I didn't do last time such as PVP and space flight mini games.

I'll start with the bad right here and go over what others may have talked about.

1) Graphics: I originally thought they were mediocre, and they still aren't top notch, but higher levels and other worlds have shown me that the graphics aren't as bad as I thought. I just think the starting worlds with the newbie armors make all the characters look BLEH. Then again, it's low level stuff and not meant to be the "bad-ass" items we will get later. As WoW knows, people focus on their character a LOT more when it comes to looking at a games graphics than anything else. That is just the way most people view graphics in a game. Does their character look good? If yes, then good graphics. If no, then the graphics suck. Again, I'm not stating that the graphics are the best out there. They are far from it. But they weren't as bad as I originally thought as I got to see more of the game and the graphics offered. Aesthetics are obviously as personal choice so I know some people love the way the game looks and some will always hate it.

2) The UI is still as clunky as ever. It definitely needs more work.

3) The BUGS!!! OMG The bugs seemed to have grown 10 fold since the last beta weekend. I do realize that was also able to experience more of the game than previously so I would naturally encounter more bugs, but the last patch put in so many bugs that broke things that were working before. Randomly getting stuck to the ground while walking around, have UI lock ups, Item bugs, changing the loot in instances to bug that up, and much more. I couldn't even submit an in game customer service or bug report ticket practically all weekend long as the in game windows for it would never load. It used to work, but for the majority of this weekend it didn't. Heck, no one could use the in game log out features for Friday and most of Saturday at all until they patched that bug. You had to use Alt + F4 to quit the game. Shit like that really chaps my ass. If I run into a mountain of bugs like that after release I'm not going to be happy at all. You can certainly bet I am going to be keeping close tabs with those people I know who are general testers. I pre-ordered the collectors edition for $150 which means I get a head start before the official start. If during that headstart I run into a mountan of bugs I'll be cancelling that pre-order. No doubt about it.

Now that I've talked about the bad things, time for the good.

Holy cow I actually like the story line. I like it a lot! So much to do I found myself quickly out leveling quests but I still kept diligently completing every single one I came across. Mainly because I'm a thorough completion-ist. There is so much to do and see as the planets get MUCH larger past the first two planets. Basically you have the starting newbie planet, and then the slightly harder second planet. Both are small and easy to do. My original beta weekend I never made it past the second planet. I was close, but never did finish clearing all the quests for the second planet and receiving my ship to travel to other planets. Obviously I've accomplished that this time around and all I can say is WOW! Quite a bit bigger. There feels like there is so much to do and see now. The game is definitely NOT SMALL.

Speaking of getting my own ship it's very cool, but I know will not be everyone's cup of tea. Your ship is like your own personal "housing" instance zone. From it you can travel to any planet or use it to do space flight combat mini-games. I state mini-games because that is what it is. It is not a free flight sim. Personally though after doing it I think I prefer the current implementation. Some of my friends have a different opinion as they want a full free flight space game as well. I think that would be too much of a distraction and that a space flight game is basically a whole other game as there are and have been space flight MMO's already done such as EVE and Earth & Beyond. Star Trek is also more space flight than ground as well. So how is space flight done in SWTOR? It is basically a side scroller of sorts except the view point is from behind the ship and not the side. The camera focuses behind your ship as your ship automatically flies forward. You have limited range of motion but your ultimate "path" or course is already predetermined. Each mission is a timed mini game. Your job is to basically shoot down the targets as they fly into view on your screen in the allotted time. Missions don't seem to be longer than 10 minutes or so. They are basically fun little mini games. The space flight is not meant to be the sole focus of SWTOR for which I'm glad. I think it fits in nicely as something else fun to do from time to time.

On the topic of something else to do, I finally gave PVP a go this weekend. I had a BLAST with the PVP and was impressed with it. PvP right now is all done battleground style on the PvE servers, although there are open PVP worlds between the two factions. There are three battle grounds:

Voidstar is an attack/defense based map. One faction either starts as attackers or defenders and then switches. The objective is for the attackers to make it as far as they can to the "end" clickable objective during a limited amount of time while the defenders try to stop them. Once either the attackers reach the end or the time expires then the two sides switch roles. Attackers become defenders and defenders become attackers. If both sides manage to make it to the end the team which did it the fastest is deemed the winner.

Alderaan is a domination style matchup. There are 3 clickable towers on the map or control points. The objective is to hold 2 or 3 of the objectives for longer than your opponent.

The last one is Hutt Ball. This PVP mini game is a BLAST! A ball starts in the middle of the map. Teams start on opposite sides. The objective is to get the ball and move it past the goal line of the opposing team which is where the opposite team starts. There is all sorts of traps and such. As a ball carrier you are slowed down dramatically but you can also pass the ball. It can be a very strategic based game.

A great, and bad, thing about the PVP I like is the bolster effect. From what I understand this is how the bolster effect works. The highest level person is ramped up to level 50 stat wise. From that everyone else is ramped up to 95% or so stat wise of the previous highest person. So if a level 20 is the highest then they are still going to have the highest stats with the bolster effect, but it wont be that much higher than the lowest level person. This gives everyone in theory a chance to kill anyone. In practice it is close. The difference being not the stats but the SKILLS available. A level 20 has just way more skills at their disposal than a level 10. More CC, more attacks, and more defensive moves all will give a pretty big advantage to the higher character over the lower. I also am irritated that PVP starts are level 10. Really my opinion is that you shouldn't be pvping until you are right now at level 14 since that is when you get the sprint skill. The sprint skill is SOOO important in pvp and being without it is a major disadvantage. I was always cringing when I joined a PVP match and saw that all my team mates were all under level 14 while everyone on the enemy team was over level 16. It was basically a slaughter at that point. I really was annoyed having half my team at times without their advanced class picked yet. Which means they had even less skills at their disposal. Still it was fun and most matches are only 10 to 20 minutes in length. I will restate again what I've said before though. Healers are OP as hell in PVP right now. They can't be killed 1v1. It takes several people to take down a healer. Because of the nature of the games for pvp winning is many times decided not by making the most kills but by dying the least. All the PVP maps are objective based. They require players to reach points on the map and do something at those points. Which means being able to survive quite a bit of punishment is MUCH better than being able to dish out a lot of damage. As it is there is no way for anyone to burst down a healer 1v1. Hell even 2v1 or 3v1 is hard if the healer is solely focused on running around, spamming heals and CCs. Most do exactly that as they wait for team mates to show up to kill whomever is trying to fight them. Healers make or break PVP games right now. If your team has a dedicated healer or two and the other team doesn't then the chances are so lopsided for winning in favor of the team with healers. I mean massively lopsided. Beyond that the balance otherwise between classes seem pretty darn good. For reference again I played a Jedi Shadow which is a melee class and did DAMN good in PVP. People claiming range dps is OP in PVP have no idea what they are talking about. They are most certainly EASIER to play, but I literally destroyed every single class I went against 1v1. I have a big guild and was testing it out with many duels on Sunday. I went against equal to higher level players of every class type. Only healers that ran around spamming heals and CC I really couldn't kill. They couldn't kill me either and if they stopped to try they would die. It was as simple as that. That is not to say that Jedi's Shadows are OP because they are not. That is to say that a little bit of player skill can massively overcome going up against an easy to play character type such as a ranged dps are in this game.

As for PVE experience, man it got profoundly better. Basically levels 1-10 are a BREEZE. So simple any moron can do those levels. I think a great many people in these beta weekends think the game is way too easy because most never get much beyond level 10. Even levels 10-16 are still fairly easy with only one or two sorta of difficult instances to do. By difficult here I mean spawns with 2 or 3 elites and maybe a sprinkling of strong/normal mobs in the mix. The bosses are still mainly tank and spank in this range and fairly easy. That all changes when you reach 17ish and do the second flashpoint instance if you decide to do it at equal level. The instances get rough and the bosses are no longer tank and spank. They all require strategy or you WILL DIE. Bosses require different actions. For example the large droid boss on Hammer Station shoots a "beam" attack at a random target. This attack is not always directed at the tank. So this beam that shoots out will stay on the target for about 10 seconds and dish out about 300 damage a second. IT WILL KILL any non tank character very fast. So how does your group deal with this? Well the beam can be bisected. Which means that if a non-tank group member is being hit by the beam then the tank can step in front and have the beam switch to them. Failure to do this correctly will often result in that group member dying. CC is also VERY important as well as having group members that aren't idiots and attack targets indiscriminately or spam AoE attacks. Also a good healer and tank are worth their weight in gold. I was a tank and I literally had several people waiting for me to run instances with them because I was the best tank on the server for my side. I'm serious. I would have several groups line up and WAIT for me to finish an instance with another group. Because doing those instances without a good tank player is suicide. The challenge level of these hard instances is very gratifying. Luckily you are not required to do any of these instances at all. They are just fun to do when done correctly. I managed to do the first 5 flash point instances successfully. Past the first one they were all really, really hard. Since every new boss required a completely new strategy to figure out because no one I was grouping with had done these bosses it sometimes took a couple of wipes to figure out how to beat several of the bosses.

Besides the bugs I really am enjoying the game. I love the diversity of what you can do. Questing, space fighting, crafting, and pvping are all well down in my opinion. I love the story and the quest lines immensely. I love the challenge and difficulty at higher levels that are hard because they require strategy and good team work to over come instead of just making the boss hit harder or something stupid which is what most games try to pass off as a difficult boss fight. SWTOR delivers that single player RPG feel in an online game and I love that.
 
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s1njin

Senior member
Apr 11, 2011
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Walk in the park. You get a neat cutscene go punch a few monsters cutscene rinse repeat. Levels go by pretty quick my my opinion and it points you on where to go. I had an issue of not taking the side quests when I first tried it but once I figured out what that minimap icon meant theyre just little things to do in the area of your main quest.

No matter how cool it may be I'll have to pass than. Walk in the park leveling is what made me drop WoW before my 30 days were up. Same w/ Rift. I want to fight through it like EQ1 where I actually cared about where I went and what I did.

Oh well ... the wait continues.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
687
126
I have mixed feelings on this game.

I played WoW from beta through Cata and never played Galaxies. Never played KOTOR but did play ME1/2.

I miss PreCU Galaxies. Had Sony just concentrated on fixing the bugs rather than making 2 radical changes, I'd probably still be playing it.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
687
126
No matter how cool it may be I'll have to pass than. Walk in the park leveling is what made me drop WoW before my 30 days were up. Same w/ Rift. I want to fight through it like EQ1 where I actually cared about where I went and what I did.

Oh well ... the wait continues.

I can see that argument, but I can also sympathize with those that don't want to grind forever to level up. TOR's leveling, at least at the lower (pre-20) levels, seems pretty easy to do with lots of content and quests to help. You can also level through PVP, which a lot of people will enjoy.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
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I can see that argument, but I can also sympathize with those that don't want to grind forever to level up. TOR's leveling, at least at the lower (pre-20) levels, seems pretty easy to do with lots of content and quests to help. You can also level through PVP, which a lot of people will enjoy.

Oh the difficulty certainly ramps up after 20. Normal quests are still soloable, but Heroic ones will require groups and usually people knowing what they are doing.
 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
9,427
16
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Oh the difficulty certainly ramps up after 20.
It continues to ramp up through the rest of the game.

Bioware has been messing with difficulty in the last few builds. Coincidentally or not, the mass beta build was tuned way down for the first 15 levels -- lower than I expect for release.
 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
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Theres also Guild Wars 2 in development that moves away from a lot of "staple" MMO concepts.
Correction: it CLAIMS to move away.

Right now GW2 is in the big talk stage. No one has any idea how the game is actually going to turn out.
 

zokudu

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2009
4,364
1
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Correction: it CLAIMS to move away.

Right now GW2 is in the big talk stage. No one has any idea how the game is actually going to turn out.

I dunno, have you seen or played any demos of it? It feels and look amazing. I demoed it at PAX East back in March and it felt tight and really really fun. No real dungeon stuff available and it was still an early pre alpha but the solo play was really good. That was questing I could really get into and the dynamic event system felt and sounds absolutely amazing. I almost feel like the GW2 demos are really polished. They are also expecting to go closed beta before the end of the year. That sounds a lot more than talk to me.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
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Definitely agree with this. I grouped for the first time this weekend and the fact your companion is dismissed (not sure how it decided who's companion is dismissed, I guess the leader gets to keep their companion?) if your group goes over the total number of four, is quite ridiculous. Was pretty ssurprised when this happened.

KT

Um Companions are in most cases better than a pugger..
they ignore CCs and know thier jobs..

me and my GF solo pretty much all the dungeons up to 30ish with us 2 and 2 comps..

Mako is sickly OP and is a better healer than most players well into the 30s.

same with the tank pets.. as the get taunts and guards well before players do..

if you think a dumb as nuts pets from any other MMO even come close to any of the companions in TOR you didnt play them long.. or gear them out and really get to know their capabilities..
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
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Nov 30, 2005
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Um Companions are in most cases better than a pugger..
they ignore CCs and know thier jobs..

Yeah, I know, I don't think I said otherwise and that is what makes it so frustrating to have your companion dismissed.

KT
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
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Walk in the park. You get a neat cutscene go punch a few monsters cutscene rinse repeat. Levels go by pretty quick my my opinion and it points you on where to go. I had an issue of not taking the side quests when I first tried it but once I figured out what that minimap icon meant theyre just little things to do in the area of your main quest.

then you never got into the high 20s or above..
it flat gets pretty damn challenging the higher you get.. stims and companions start mattering big time..

a double silver pull at L30 can and is fatal if you werent ready with all cooldowns ready.

it does get hard L1-15 are a cakewalk and the difficulty ramps up rapidly after that.



the story goes all the way to 50.. and will continue with expansions.

if you loved KOTOR you will love this.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
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Yeah, I know, I don't think I said otherwise and that is what makes it so frustrating to have your companion dismissed.

KT

I was more replying to the quoted text.. but yeh..


Well the point is they are as powerful and in alot of cases MORE powerful than a PC of thier level..
the DPS's flat destroy their equal level counterparts and the tanks and healers are better as well..

so it wouldn't make sense for you to be able to 8 man 4 man content..

it would trivialize the entire game.
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
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Nov 30, 2005
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I was more replying to the quoted text.. but yeh..


Well the point is they are as powerful and in alot of cases MORE powerful than a PC of thier level..
the DPS's flat destroy their equal level counterparts and the tanks and healers are better as well..

so it wouldn't make sense for you to be able to 8 man 4 man content..

it would trivialize the entire game.

Makes sense. I am going under the assumption they will reduce the power of the companions at some point as they do seem to be extremely powerful.

Presumably this is the last full testing weekend before the release/pre-release?

KT
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
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Makes sense. I am going under the assumption they will reduce the power of the companions at some point as they do seem to be extremely powerful.

Presumably this is the last full testing weekend before the release/pre-release?

KT

actually they are underpowered as you get higher into the difficulty level.. the game gets MUCH harder into the 30s through 50s.. and that's where everything becomes a chore.

The game is balanced around the player and their companion and every class gets the same ones.. just in a different order..
so it's not really an imbalance issue.
 

SithSolo1

Diamond Member
Mar 19, 2001
7,740
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Um Companions are in most cases better than a pugger..
they ignore CCs and know thier jobs..

me and my GF solo pretty much all the dungeons up to 30ish with us 2 and 2 comps..

Mako is sickly OP and is a better healer than most players well into the 30s.

same with the tank pets.. as the get taunts and guards well before players do..

if you think a dumb as nuts pets from any other MMO even come close to any of the companions in TOR you didnt play them long.. or gear them out and really get to know their capabilities..

Yeah Mako is Op but the companions the republic side gets are inferior. They simply don't heal enough or do enough dps. I do have a bias view, I don't pug. The people I grouped with are the same ones I raided and grouped with in wow. We did the instance as 3 dps and a healer and breezed right through them. Yes I was over dramatic and they are better than your average novice. They are not better than people who have a year or two of wow like raid experience under their belt.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
687
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So for you guys who made it to the higher levels and bigger worlds. How does the size of TOR's Tatooine compare to the size of Galaxie's Tatooine, for example?