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***OFFICIAL*** Ryzen 5000 / Zen 3 Launch Thread REVIEWS BEGIN PAGE 39

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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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That's a quick turnaround from Renoir to Cezanne. OEMs probably had something to do with it . . .
 

LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
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Or, more likely, the product was targeted at the existing platform to keep everyone happy and also allow a rapid changeover. Yes, probably at OEM request to some degree, but, it's not like AMD wouldn't have been cognizant of their place in the market.
 

moinmoin

Platinum Member
Jun 1, 2017
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Availability of Renoir based products is still sketchy (for Germany Geizhals lists 395 laptop models, but only 208 of them are actually readily in stock). AMD likely wasn't able/willing to use more wafers for Renoir in the short term, so if those are done already moving on with Cezanne and Lucienne instead (for which I sure hope AMD was able to allocate more wafers to begin with) makes perfect sense.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
10,082
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Availability of Renoir based products is still sketchy (for Germany Geizhals lists 395 laptop models, but only 208 of them are actually readily in stock). AMD likely wasn't able/willing to use more wafers for Renoir in the short term, so if those are done already moving on with Cezanne and Lucienne instead (for which I sure hope AMD was able to allocate more wafers to begin with) makes perfect sense.
Looks like AMD is mostly getting their sales from Picasso, not from Renoir.
 

moinmoin

Platinum Member
Jun 1, 2017
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Looks like AMD is mostly getting their sales from Picasso, not from Renoir.
For Germany going by Geizhals that's not the case, there are 206 laptop models with Picasso (Renoir really is vastly more popular with OEMs) and 70 with Dali, though only 98 respectively 22 are in stock.
 
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amrnuke

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2019
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I have a feeling that just a 5800 will be released to slot in what would otherwise be 5700 and X space. (basically: why do another tier of 8 cores?)

the way the 6 core performs right now, in certain test cases better than it's 8 and 12 core big brothers, there just doesn't seem to be room for 3-4 8 core SKUs, in reasonable performance gap and price point measures. Maybe a limited edition with a silver stamp to denote crummy dies that they want to package as the "value" AMD 8 core Zen 3, end of year?

Or, actually! those might just be OEM-only chips. You'll see them on HP: "Bleeding Edge, Zen3 5700 XS edition! Exclusive!" It will exist, on stickers for machines in Best Buy, but you can't get one off the shelf? (of call it 5800S, limit to OEM, when it is the spiritual heir to the x700 tier, RIP)
Honestly, I think N7 is so mature from a binning and yield standpoint that I'm not sure how they do a potential 5600 or 5700X and maintain similar margins. I imagine they'll evaluate the market, and once 5600X/5800X stop going out of stock immediately after getting listed, they'll consider whether cheaper versions with lower base/boost would help them sell to those who felt left-out by the higher pricing.

A $225 5600 and a $350 5700X would sell like crazy.
 
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scannall

Golden Member
Jan 1, 2012
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Honestly, I think N7 is so mature from a binning and yield standpoint that I'm not sure how they do a potential 5600 or 5700X and maintain similar margins. I imagine they'll evaluate the market, and once 5600X/5800X stop going out of stock immediately after getting listed, they'll consider whether cheaper versions with lower base/boost would help them sell to those who felt left-out by the higher pricing.

A $225 5600 and a $350 5700X would sell like crazy.
My own take is they won't release the non x parts until demand is such that the higher priced parts can stay in stock for a week or two. Why not get the cream while you can?
 

Nereus77

Member
Dec 30, 2016
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My own take is they won't release the non x parts until demand is such that the higher priced parts can stay in stock for a week or two. Why not get the cream while you can?
I'd say the demand for that (5600X and 5900X) is sky-high, and the demand for non-X variants will be even higher. I really hope that AMD is churning out a ton of these lower-tier CPUs behind the scenes to launch in the new year.
 

LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
915
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I don't know what it means for the overall retail market, but, after a conversation with a few retail managers lately, the time to turn (how long they actually stay in stock once they arrive) for their Dali laptops is crazy short. Same for most any of the sub $400 models, but, particularly for the low numbered 3000 series chips. AMD is easily selling every chip that GloFo can feed them there.

I feel very strongly that if AMD could make a "half Renoir" on GloFo 12LP or LP+, with one CCX with four cores, and a VEGA section with 4CUs, and sell it in three variants (2/4+2, 4/4+3, 4/8+4), they could do the same with those at a high enough price to make it make sense and make for a very happy market.
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
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I don't think I ever a Zen 3 part in the flesh at tech stores here since release in Singapore. Supply is so low that people are buying Zen 2 parts now for their new PCs. For me, I'll wait for next-gen Intel before deciding on the next CPU upgrade.
 

LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
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Digging into the subscores, and comparing to the ASUS TUF laptop with a 4900H, the only single core performance regression that I see is for "Camera". In MT, there are several performance regressions, especially in AES, navigation, camera, pdf rendering and Machine Learning. I feel like this is likely due either to hitting a thermal limit and throttling at high usage, or due to some sort of memory bottleneck. We do know that the Nitro line isn't exactly "high end" and could likely have a sub-par thermal management system. It's also possible that they haven't fully refined the bios/uefi with respect to memory timings. I do suspect that the faster cores of Cezanne could more easily run into memory starvation issues than Renoir, however, I don't think that it should be this pronounced to the point of regression.

Going back and comparing this score with the Nitro -44, the immediate predecessor that likely shares most everything with this one, I see the same regressions. They are in the same subscores and to the same degree. However, the score spreads are large across that model, and the number I'm comparing to is the highest on the first page of the search. It's still consistent that those same MT scores are proportionally lower. It might be a bit of cache thrashing due to the unified CCX layout with a smaller size than desktop Zen3. In other words, what might work well with one unified 32MB L3 cache doesn't work as well at just 8 MB, but does work a bit better at 2x4MB. Perhaps this is a case where there would be a notable advantage from moving to N6 and suffering a slightly larger die size for a 16MB L3?
 
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moinmoin

Platinum Member
Jun 1, 2017
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Another GB5 entry, this time it's a 5900HX. Compared to the 5800H entry:
  • ST score jumped from 1475 to 1547
  • MT score goes up from 7630 to 9069
Clock is between 4.617 and 4.742 GHz according to the .gb5 listing. I wish GB5 would also list power usage because this is what Zen 3 has already shown on desktop: For MT there's now more headroom than with Zen 2, depending on the limits.
 

LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
915
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Comparing those 5900hx scores to leading 4900h models, we see the same sorts of regressions that we saw in the previous leak, ST regresses "camera", and MT takes hits with camera, AES, horizon detection, ML and a few others. It's either hitting a thermal wall, or it's hitting a memory throughput limit. I'm doubting the latter as it's got 16MB of L3 and no less RAM performance than the Renoir chip.

There's something going on here...
 
Mar 11, 2004
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Only for H, the U version is MIA.
Did Hitman edit/update his post? Because the 5800U is right there.

Which, it seems like the 5800U should offer what 4800H/4900HS performance but at 15W instead of 45/35W? So for the big jump in battery life they're claiming that makes sense. Which, on top of that, if companies slot the 5800U into the H/HS systems they have, then they could possibly jump a tier in GPU (meaning they could slot a 2070 in where the 2060 was, or guessing we'll see a bunch of 3060 in those, but it should hopefully keep them from having the Max-Q versions).

Man, a MacBook Air svelte system with a 5800U, with an external GPU, that'd be nice. Unfortunately pretty doubtful about eGPU, but hoping we see laptops like that at comparable price.

I bought a G14 just before the end of the year and have another 4 days to return it (haven't even opened it yet as I wasn't sure when CES started this year and figured I'd wait to see what gets announced). I now plan to, but now trying to decide if I'll just do a refund or maybe get an Apple M1 system to try out and tide me over (and then give to family member) til I buy a gaming laptop (the G14 is nice but not quite what I wanted, I ordered a Lenovo Legion with similar specs in November but for some reason the order never went through; hoping now I could get something with a stronger dGPU paired with the 5800U so I can have great battery life when I'm just browsing the web and watching movies, but then solid gaming performance good enough for my Oculus Quest).
 
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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
10,082
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NBC says that the 5800 and 5900 non-X are official but OEM only.
 

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