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***OFFICIAL*** Ryzen 5000 / Zen 3 Launch Thread ***CONFIRMED***

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exquisitechar

Senior member
Apr 18, 2017
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Intel probably won't be selling a 6c Rocket Lake at the same price point as the 10400F, unless clocks are pretty low due to a poor bin.
Possibly, but sub $300 6 core is certainly going to happen, no? I mean, Rocket Lake of all things being a price hike with worse prices than Zen3 would be embarrassing.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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I would assume that the replacement for the 10400F would be Comet Lake based. Most of 11th Gen S is going to be Comet Lake rebrands although they could certainly juice the clocks.

The "problem" with the 5600 is that it kind of kills the point of buying the 5600X since it's also unlocked and up to now there hasn't been much of a frequency gap between chips.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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I would assume that the replacement for the 10400F would be Comet Lake based. Most of 11th Gen S is going to be Comet Lake rebrands although they could certainly juice the clocks.

The "problem" with the 5600 is that it kind of kills the point of buying the 5600X since it's also unlocked and up to now there hasn't been much of a frequency gap between chips.
Thats because the gap is too wide, the same happened with the 3600 and the 3600X and it was $50, if the 5600 is $220 the gap would be $80, thats a lot.

Intel probably won't be selling a 6c Rocket Lake at the same price point as the 10400F, unless clocks are pretty low due to a poor bin.
Well, Intel needs to accept they cant keep having the same margins, rebranding when they dont longer have ANY lead is a bad idea, the only chance they have is in the mainstream area were AMD is going to keep using Zen2, Renoir (maybe) and Cezanne. Unless AMD launches a Zen3 below the 5600.
 
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KompuKare

Senior member
Jul 28, 2009
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The BIOS update delay for the 400 series is a bussiness decision.
Indeed, although I imagine with all the things AMD are doing they don't have infinite resources in their firmware teams.
In an ideal world, they also would have had the RDNA2 lower power APUs ready sooner rather than waiting to finish the console work before starting on them (yes, I saw your earlier point about RNDA2 having been developed for big APUs unlike Vega but I think the work required to go down to 15W or lower is quite a lot more).
Far more interesting to me, is which OEMs lobbied to exclude Zen3 support from 400 series chipsets in the first place. Sure AMD probably didn't mind as less work for firmware teams, but I'm sure OEMs must have at the minimum hinted that long support for old AM4 boards made them more likely to concentrate on Intel releases.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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I would assume that the replacement for the 10400F would be Comet Lake based. Most of 11th Gen S is going to be Comet Lake rebrands although they could certainly juice the clocks.
I see this idea from @DrMrLordX, is there something I missed in terms of rumors/leaks in the last few weeks? Why are both of you convinced that Intel will continue pushing lots of Skylake chips even with RKL-S? Is it because you assume they will only make the big 8-core dies to save money on a low shelf life product?

The "problem" with the 5600 is that it kind of kills the point of buying the 5600X since it's also unlocked and up to now there hasn't been much of a frequency gap between chips.
That's never been the problem. The *600 non X has always been the star in terms of volume. The X SKU had only one job, and that is to fill a price point bracket. I get the feeling AMD wants this year to be different, they want the media to positively compare the R5 to i7 and the R7 to i9, at least as far as gaming is concerned. They want Zen 3 to look good even with a handicap, and pushing the X SKUs first may actually do the job. For that they may have binned the X SKUs a bit further, but I guess we won't know that for sure until next year.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
8,397
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I see this idea from @DrMrLordX, is there something I missed in terms of rumors/leaks in the last few weeks? Why are both of you convinced that Intel will continue pushing lots of Skylake chips even with RKL-S? Is it because you assume they will only make the big 8-core dies to save money on a low shelf life product?
We don't know. I presume it's because OEMs rejected Rocket Lake due to the power consumption.

But yes there is only the 8 core die.
 

Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
4,850
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Intels best, an over $1000 (1056) 18 core almost equal to a 12 core, and easily beat by a $800 16 core.

Yes, Intel better get going before we have $1000 FX AMD (as @lobz said)

I might like AMD today, but if we don't get competition, its going to get ugly

However, the 5900x is 10% more than the 3900x, but 16% faster. So at least that CPU is fairly priced. (taking the $500 launch price that I paid 3 times)
Even if that is the case, AMD will still have to compete with themselves. No one really likes the $50 price hikes with Zen 3, but the performance per dollar uplift is still there. It just not as good as it could have been.

Even when a company has a dominant position it can still keep pushing ahead. Apple's SoC team is a pretty good example of this. Companies who don't make significant improvements won't get me to replace what I already have from them. There's a reason I never bothered to upgrade the Ivy Bridge CPU I had to a newer Intel offering. There just wasn't enough uplift for what it cost.

I'm definitely getting a Zen 3, maybe even one that has a little more hardware than I honestly need. However once I have it I have it and past performance doesn't give me a compelling reason to upgrade. If AMD wants me to open my wallet for them again they need to give me a reason to do so.
 

amrnuke

Senior member
Apr 24, 2019
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I think this is a pattern we will now see iteratively with AMD, in a similar fashion as what we are seeing with the iPhone. We are no longer going to see revolution, but instead evolution. Each step up will not bring with it massive groundbreaking changes, but instead improvements that make us think, "That's solid." So we shouldn't get worked up over the single releases; we should instead be focusing on the long-term continuous improvements.

For example, for the iPhone, A14 over A13 isn't a massive improvement, and the iPhone 12 Pro isn't really that much better than the iPhone 11 Pro. But A14 over A10 is more than doubling single core and more than tripling multicore performance and the iPhone 12 Pro is clearly a much better overall phone than the iPhone 7 Plus.

Similarly, Zen3 over Zen2 doesn't seem "massive". And indeed, the peak CB20 single scores we are seeing of 640 for 5950X compared to 520-525 for 3950X is nice but not groundbreaking. But 640 compared to 390 (1800X) with a 65% improvement in 1T CB20 score is very impressive over 3.5 years.

And if AMD keep this up, 15% increases per cycle in IPC, we will see a 1T CB20 scores of 735 for Zen4, 845 for Zen5, and approaching 1000 by Zen6.
 

eek2121

Senior member
Aug 2, 2005
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I think this is a pattern we will now see iteratively with AMD, in a similar fashion as what we are seeing with the iPhone. We are no longer going to see revolution, but instead evolution. Each step up will not bring with it massive groundbreaking changes, but instead improvements that make us think, "That's solid." So we shouldn't get worked up over the single releases; we should instead be focusing on the long-term continuous improvements.

For example, for the iPhone, A14 over A13 isn't a massive improvement, and the iPhone 12 Pro isn't really that much better than the iPhone 11 Pro. But A14 over A10 is more than doubling single core and more than tripling multicore performance and the iPhone 12 Pro is clearly a much better overall phone than the iPhone 7 Plus.

Similarly, Zen3 over Zen2 doesn't seem "massive". And indeed, the peak CB20 single scores we are seeing of 640 for 5950X compared to 520-525 for 3950X is nice but not groundbreaking. But 640 compared to 390 (1800X) with a 65% improvement in 1T CB20 score is very impressive over 3.5 years.

And if AMD keep this up, 15% increases per cycle in IPC, we will see a 1T CB20 scores of 735 for Zen4, 845 for Zen5, and approaching 1000 by Zen6.
We haven't seen multicore performance yet. Also, we don't know if PBO will behave differently with Zen 3. It is curious that the boost clocks are slightly lower however...
 

Dave3000

Senior member
Jan 10, 2011
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Will the 5800x have full memory write bandwidth or will it have half the memory write bandwidth of the 5900x and 5950x? This attribute could affect my decision on whether I go with a 5800x or a 5900x when it becomes available, especially if the 5900x is going to be $100 more than the 5800x.
 
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repoman0

Platinum Member
Jun 17, 2010
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5900x for me as the end of the line upgrade for my AM4 system. I like to think (pretend?) that I will be good for 5 solid years and not tempted by future CPU/RAM tech. Really I don’t need anything better than my 3700x, won’t need anything better than my future 5900x, but will end up with a new system anyway for the games I don’t play.
 

moinmoin

Golden Member
Jun 1, 2017
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Will the 5800x have full memory write bandwidth or will it have half the memory write bandwidth of the 5900x and 5950x? This attribute could affect my decision on whether I go with a 5800x or a 5900x when it becomes available, especially if the 5900x is going to be $100 more than the 5800x.
The half memory write bandwidth was per 4c CCX in Zen 2. Ryzen 5000 appears to use the same IOD, and every CCD has one 8c CCX instead two 4c CCX, so 5800X should have (two half = one) full memory write bandwidth.
 

Kocicak

Senior member
Jan 17, 2019
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If AMD really uses the same production process for the Ryzen 5000 chiplets, while the substrate and IO chips are the same as previous generation, is it possible that the 3000 series CPUs will be manufactured alongside the new CPUs and play the role of the non X models?
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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If AMD really uses the same production process for the Ryzen 5000 chiplets, while the substrate and IO chips are the same as previous generation, is it possible that the 3000 series CPUs will be manufactured alongside the new CPUs and play the role of the non X models?
They will likely keep producing Zen 2 chiplets for a number of reasons (conservative server clients, LTS SKUs etc.), but playing the role of non X models isn't one of them. They have a faster chiplet that can be produced with the same infrastructure as the old chiplet, they will make as many Zen 3 chiplets as possible and lower quality chips will bellong in the non X bins.
 

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