Official Flu thread: 12-25-03 State of Georgia scammed in 100,000 dose Flu Vaccine fraud

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
That site is a little bit of fact and a little bit of poo. It is a generally well written but misguided application of epidemiology.

Mortality due to tuberculosis, diphtheria, scarlet fever, whooping cough, measles, typhoid, puerperal fever and infant gastro-enteritis started to fall long before the introduction of immunization and/or antibiotics. The decline was probably due to a great extent to various factors linked to the steady rise in the standard of living: qualitative and quantitative improvements in nutrition; better public and personal hygiene; better housing and working conditions and improvements in education.?

It is utterly ridiculous to lump these diverse diseases together. Quarantine is arguably the single best disease control device for self-limiting disease. Every legitimate public health authority will tell you sustainable potable water supplies and basic sanitation are at least an order of magnitude more important than vaccination. But measles and whooping cough abated due to vaccination. Scarlet fever/rheumatic fever rates have always been relatively low in the US but rheumatic fever is essentially nonexistent in late Boomers and GenX due to broad treatment of Group A Strep infections (strep throat) with antibiotics.

The UK study disagrees with you on whooping cough:

With this pattern well established before 1957, there is no evidence that vaccination played a major role in the decline in incidence and mortality in the trend of events.

?The distinguished epidemiologist Thomas McKeown (1912-1988) maintained that reductions in deaths associated with infectious diseases (air-, water-, and food-borne diseases) cannot have been brought about by medical advances, since such diseases were declining long before effective means were available to combat them.?

That's not a good reason to stop vaccinating. And it's not very good science, either.

I'm sorry, but why is establishing a causal relationship between vaccines and reduction in related disease "good science", but establishing a causal relationship between hygiene and medical advances "not good science"?

Now, the truth be told, I'm not entirely anti-vaccine. I'm researching, and learning. I recognize that no medicine is entirely safe.

But I also recognize that we are a LONG way away from understanding the long-term health impacts of a lifetime of vaccines. Vaccines are constantly being introduced, then withdrawn. Some vaccine's small % adverse reactions are MUCH WORSE than the original disease! (MMR for example). Autism has been linked, then vehemently refuted. Why not put further research into it? Because of the fear of a link between autism and vaccines would spur 1,000's of lawsuits (not to mention kill the cash cow of the drug companies). There's a ton of information out there, and the drug companies and the government aren't being forthcoming or proactive.



Vaccines are no different than drug-prescription. The should be administered with great care, and sparingly. And there is a lot of research left to be done, but the "Medical Community" likes to pooh-pooh

I find it insane that we are willing to sell "Flu-Mist" to the general public without ANY medical involvement. There *will* be deaths resulting from Flu-Mist wal-mart sheep who then go home and kill their immuno-compromised relative.

Here's another website for those of you that like to question what you've always been taught. Link

The medical industry and the government are wrong all the time about just about everything. Learn for yourselves.

 

[sandorski]

From one report I've seen the current vaccine has been rather ineffective protection against the current flu causing all the fuss.

 

[charrison]

HEB(grocery store) in San antonio will have the flu shot$/flu mist available this Saturdayfrom 1-3.

First come first serve I assume.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: sandorski
From one report I've seen the current vaccine has been rather ineffective protection against the current flu causing all the fuss.

I've seen 30-50% numbers. Medical folks I've talked to have said "it won't keep you from catching the virus, but it might lessen the impact".

Not worth it IMHO if you and your family are healthy, and nobody is in the high-risk age.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Some vaccine's small % adverse reactions are MUCH WORSE than the original disease! (MMR for example). Autism has been linked, then vehemently refuted. Why not put further research into it? Because of the fear of a link between autism and vaccines would spur 1,000's of lawsuits (not to mention kill the cash cow of the drug companies). There's a ton of information out there, and the drug companies and the government aren't being forthcoming or proactive.

MMR is a horrible example. There's very little doubt that MMR vaccination has been a tremendous success . . . and of course these diseases have no relation to potable water or sanitation. Autism was linked to MMR by BAD science. In Denmark, autism rates INCREASED after the alleged etiological factor in MMR (thimersol) was removed. Studies from the UK confirm the lack of even simple correlation between MMR vaccination and autism.

I would love an explanation for autism. It would hopefully lead to alot fewer affected children (and families) . . . not to mention collecting a Nobel in Medicine before I'm 40. But vaccines are not it. The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) is a start. But you are correct that drug companies (and the government) are not doing their best to protect the public from bad vaccines. But you incorrect in your notion that vaccine production and use is a collective farce of healthcare providers, drug companies, and government.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Here's another website for those of you that like to question what you've always been taught. Link
The medical industry and the government are wrong all the time about just about everything. Learn for yourselves.

More poo. I support wholeheartedly the notion that people should be properly informed about the risk/benefit of ALL vaccines. But PROVE . . . and the vast majority of other "anti-vaccination" groups are up the creek without a paddle. Science can never claim certainty. And there's very little doubt that some vaccines sux (Rotashield, Anthrax) . . . some make very little sense for children (Varicella-ChickenPox) . . . some make no sense for anybody (smallpox) . . . while others are an open-question (Meningococcus-meningitis).

But . . . MMR/DTP and HepB (for our multicultural society) are safe and scientifically validated. PneumoVax has been a profound success for the millions of Americans with compromised ability to defend against encapsulated bacteria (sickle cell, cystic fibrosis, chronic respiratory disease, chronic immunosuppressed).

 

[dmcowen674]

12-12-2003 Soldiers afraid of Vaccines, saps Morale

Ohio National Guardsman Kurt Hickman expected to head to Iraq or Afghanistan after getting a call-up notice days before Thanksgiving. Instead, his more likely destination is a jail cell. Hickman, 20, faces trial Saturday for refusing a mandatory anthrax vaccine he fears isn't safe. More than 500 other soldiers already have received punishments ranging from demotions to court-martials for refusing required anthrax shots.

The Pentagon says vaccines are essential to protect soldiers' health...it clings to its policy of mandatory vaccinations, even as other countries are moving toward voluntary programs with successful results. The dug-in U.S. position forces concerned soldiers to choose between possibly endangering their health and ending their military service at a time when troop strength already is stretched.

Those risks, combined with the U.S. military's failure to find any biological weapons in Iraq so far, make a strong argument for a moratorium on mandatory vaccines - at least while two safer anthrax vaccines are being developed.

Britain, with the most troops in Iraq after the U.S., made the anthrax vaccine voluntary this year. Since then, more than half of its soldiers have refused the shots. Australia, which also has troops in Iraq, has a voluntary anthrax vaccination policy as well.

By giving soldiers a choice about receiving vaccines as more studies on the health hazards are conducted, the Pentagon could ensure that soldiers like Hickman serve time where they're needed most.

 

[alchemize]

Here's are two (old) but good Consumer Reports articles on vaccinations. Not exactly the illuminati crowd here BBD It does give a viewpoint from both sides...I would say it leans more to the pro-vaccine crowd, but does make some good valid observations.

Vaccine safety and kids

- There are significant gaps in the system for monitoring the safety of newly introduced and older vaccines.

- The guardians of vaccine safety have been slow to address correctable problems, such as the use of mercury as a preservative in some infant vaccines.

- The adversarial treatment of the 150 or so Americans who apply each year for compensation for adverse effects from vaccines has angered many and provided recruits to the antivaccine forces.

Even minuscule doses of mercury can impair the cognitive development of babies and young children. Just this year, the FDA warned pregnant and nursing women and very young children to avoid certain mercury-containing fish. Yet until last year, the same agency permitted the use of childhood vaccines containing mercury in quantities that many, including Consumers Union, consider unsafe.

An average-sized baby given vaccines containing the maximum concentration of thimerosal was being exposed to 187 micrograms of mercury, more than twice what the Environmental Protection Agency deems safe for very young children

Vaccine safety and adults

 

[BDawg]

Update the title! BDawg has the flu. Luckily, I had my shot, so it's not that bad. In fact, I'm leaving in 30 min to take my Econ final.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: BDawg
Update the title! BDawg has the flu. Luckily, I had my shot, so it's not that bad. In fact, I'm leaving in 30 min to take my Econ final.

Glad it's not that bad, hopefully the shot is helping in that regard. You are just up I-85 from Donna and I. We both got the shot back in late September.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Me = No Flu shot.

Me= had a light case of the Flu since last wednesday....all better now though. Just some OTC Flu stuff took care of it straight away.

CkG

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: BDawg
Update the title! BDawg has the flu. Luckily, I had my shot, so it's not that bad. In fact, I'm leaving in 30 min to take my Econ final.

Glad it's not that bad, hopefully the shot is helping in that regard. You are just up I-85 from Donna and I. We both got the shot back in late September.

We both got our shots too, but both of us are a tad achey.

The flu didn't keep me from knocking out my test tonight...I did forget my case study, but the professor allowed me to e-mail after I got home.

IMHO, none of this would be a problem if people didn't go to work sick. I went into work for just a few hours this morning, just long enough to approve some purchase requests. When people came by, I made them keep their distance, and I washed my hands as much as possible. If I feel badly at all tomorrow, I'm staying here. Nothing at work is that urgent right now. The government gives me 12 sick days a year for a reason.

 

[dmcowen674]

I don't know if it's not too late but the Government has secured nearly 400,000 additional doses of Vaccine from England & France.

12-15-2003 U.S. Gov't Buys 375,000 More Flu Shots

Now in bulk form, the vaccine is being repackaged into syringes and will arrive next month. The government paid $8 a dose.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

- There are significant gaps in the system for monitoring the safety of newly introduced and older vaccines.

That's why I mentioned VAERS and how it is basically Bush Medicare reform or EPA policy . . . it's better than nothing but just barely.

- The guardians of vaccine safety have been slow to address correctable problems, such as the use of mercury as a preservative in some infant vaccines.

It's called no funding. Programs that don't blow stuff up or have a dedicated lobby (highway, drugs, alcohol, tobacco) get no attention. But CR is a little lax in their presentation. Thimersol (the primary mercury containing vaccine preservative) was phased out a long time ago for childhood vaccines in America. Some people on the board may even remember thimersol being phased out of saline solution for contact lenses. BUT there might be a little bit in flu vaccines.

The whole point of thimersol was economics anyway. It costs manufacturers marginally more money to produce a 10-dose vial as a 1-dose vial but they charged much more. According to some public servants in makes sense to balance economic issues and public safety. I think such people have poor morals but who am I to judge.

- The adversarial treatment of the 150 or so Americans who apply each year for compensation for adverse effects from vaccines has angered many and provided recruits to the antivaccine forces.

IIRC, the system was originally funded by the government +/- vaccine manufacturers surcharge. I believe the authorization expired at Congress hasn't re-established it b/c they consider any victim compensation fund to be just another trough for the trial lawyers to feed. Even if the compensation fund is still intact, my uderstanding is that it's difficult to settle even clear cases of vaccine-induced severe adverse events. That could easily be rectified if the system was non-adversarial. Unfortunately, such systems are likely to be voluntary for manufacturers which means they won't participate unless they get BLANKET exemption from liability. And I have heard grumblings that government tends to act as if it's protecting the manufacturers' interests moreso than the family. Of course none of these issues have anything to do with taking care of people that have been harmed by bad vaccines or doctors/public health/US military improperly administering a vaccine.

 

[alchemize]

More on this year's vaccine...

"Public health officials knew last spring that it was highly likely that the A/Panama strain in the current vaccine was not going to protect against the mutated, more dangerous A/Fujian strain of flu. If there is solid new evidence that the vaccine is protective against Fujian, then it should be released. If there is no such evidence, then it is not right to lead people to believe that if they get vaccinated now, they will be protected against it," said Barbara Loe Fisher, president, National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC).

Fisher, who was the consumer voting member of the FDA Advisory Committee, abstained from the strain selection vote on March 18, saying "I feel uncomfortable voting for inclusion of an A/Panama-like virus, when what may really be needed is an A/Fujian-like virus. So I am going to abstain and urge that the public be informed that next year's flu vaccine may not be protective against an emerging strain."


Federal officials were prevented from replacing the A/Panama strain with the Fujian strain emerging out of Asia and being detected in Europe and the United States last spring because scientists in labs around the world were unable to isolate and grow the virus in a way that would allow vaccine production. Transcripts from the February 20 and March 18, 2003 meetings of the FDA Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRBPAC) reveal that health officials around the world knew the genetically mutated Fujian strain was associated with significant morbidity and mortality and that last year's vaccine showed little protection against it.

Some doctors pushed for the Fujian strain. From the CDC transcripts in March 2003:

DR. PALESE: I feel very strongly that we should change the strain to the Fujian-like. And it's based on the fact that, one, there is a herald wave. It's a good indicator that this will be the next strain.

COLONEL DINIEGA: This is Ben Diniega from Health Affairs. I vote to retain the A/Panama, but agree with the need to continue efforts to try to get the Fujian-like strains grown on eggs.

DR. ROYAL: I guess my mute was on. I agree with the comments with respect to the Fujian strain. Again, I'm forced to cast my vote for retaining the A/Panama.

DR. KARRON: I vote very reluctantly to retain the A/Panama and would like to ask in future meetings that we hear updates about ability to isolate appropriate A/Fujian-like viruses, so that hopefully we're not in this position next year.

DR. FISHER: Well, because there are an increasing number of cases of new variant H3N2 viruses causing flu, I feel uncomfortable voting for inclusion of an A/Panama-like virus, when what may really be needed is an A/Fujian-like virus. So I'm going to abstain and urge that the public be informed that next year's flu vaccine may not be protective against an emerging strain.

DR. DIAZ: I'm still here. I would prefer that we move to an A/Fujian-like strain. However, it seems from a regulatory standpoint and from a practical standpoint, in terms of manufacturing, we somewhat have our hands tied. So I would agree that we need to maintain the A/Panama strain in next year's vaccine.

Sounds like to me they knew there would be a problem months and months ago with this strain. Things were pretty quiet until kids started dying in Colorado...and then were pretty quiet again until groups started noting that the vaccine may have protection issues.

 

[dmcowen674]

Georgia just had it's first child die from this Flu and it is now considered "Widespread" in the State.

 

[dmcowen674]

3 more children were confirmed to have died from the Flu today in Georgia.

 

[amok]

I've been fighting this thing myself for the last few days, and have to say its been pretty rough. Even had to resort to calling my ex for a house call (I hate hospitals and doctors' offices). She brought me some anti-virals to cut down my down-time, but about freaked out when she recorded my temp at 105.3F. Got to be treated like a 3 year old while she spent several hours getting my fever down. I had almost forgotten how much like my mother she could be at times .

Its also extremely contagious. Nearly half of my staff is at home sick, and to prevent the other half from following I'm making all the sick ones stay away from the office and labs for a week (and had our facilities sterilized). The weird thing is that I don't believe KY is listed as one of the "Widespread" states. If the isolated cases spread as quickly elswhere as they have in my company, that will no doubt be corrected shortly.

 

[sandorski]

Ick, I hope it stays away from me.

 

[dmcowen674]

12-19-2003 CDC Activates Emergency Operations Center To Deal with FLU

At least 36 states have been labeled by the agency as having widespread flu activity, the nation's highest outbreak level for influenza, and no state has been untouched by the virus.

 

[dmcowen674]

State of Georgia scammed out of 1.6 million dollars, Texas Company promised supply of 100,000 doses of Flu Vaccine, FBI confirms the Company never had the Vaccine and able to recover all but 70,000.

12-25-2003 FBI: State Victimized in Flu Shot Fraud

ATLANTA - Faced with nationwide flu shot shortages, Georgia health officials came across an offer they absolutely couldn't refuse -- all the flu shots they could want.

A private vendor offered the state 100,000 doses of flu shots for $1.65 million, twice what the shots would have cost earlier in the flu season.

They wired the money. But the flu shots never came, because they never existed, state officials said Wednesday. Georgia fell victim to the bait-and-switch, one of the oldest holiday scams on the books.

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
State of Georgia scammed out of 1.6 million dollars, Texas Company promised supply of 100,000 doses of Flu Vaccine, FBI confirms the Company never had the Vaccine and able to recover all but 70,000.

12-25-2003 FBI: State Victimized in Flu Shot Fraud

ATLANTA - Faced with nationwide flu shot shortages, Georgia health officials came across an offer they absolutely couldn't refuse -- all the flu shots they could want.

A private vendor offered the state 100,000 doses of flu shots for $1.65 million, twice what the shots would have cost earlier in the flu season.

They wired the money. But the flu shots never came, because they never existed, state officials said Wednesday. Georgia fell victim to the bait-and-switch, one of the oldest holiday scams on the books.

Unbelievable. You'd think they'd gone to ebay and bought the first vaccines available.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
State of Georgia scammed out of 1.6 million dollars, Texas Company promised supply of 100,000 doses of Flu Vaccine, FBI confirms the Company never had the Vaccine and able to recover all but 70,000.

12-25-2003 FBI: State Victimized in Flu Shot Fraud

ATLANTA - Faced with nationwide flu shot shortages, Georgia health officials came across an offer they absolutely couldn't refuse -- all the flu shots they could want.

A private vendor offered the state 100,000 doses of flu shots for $1.65 million, twice what the shots would have cost earlier in the flu season.

They wired the money. But the flu shots never came, because they never existed, state officials said Wednesday. Georgia fell victim to the bait-and-switch, one of the oldest holiday scams on the books.

And some people think White Collar Crime has no real victims... If it were my country I would behead the people responsible for this fraud.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
State of Georgia scammed out of 1.6 million dollars, Texas Company promised supply of 100,000 doses of Flu Vaccine, FBI confirms the Company never had the Vaccine and able to recover all but 70,000.

12-25-2003 FBI: State Victimized in Flu Shot Fraud

ATLANTA - Faced with nationwide flu shot shortages, Georgia health officials came across an offer they absolutely couldn't refuse -- all the flu shots they could want.

A private vendor offered the state 100,000 doses of flu shots for $1.65 million, twice what the shots would have cost earlier in the flu season.

They wired the money. But the flu shots never came, because they never existed, state officials said Wednesday. Georgia fell victim to the bait-and-switch, one of the oldest holiday scams on the books.

And some people think White Collar Crime has no real victims... If it were my country I would behead the people responsible for this fraud.

Remind me not to live in your country. Hate to see what the punishment is for murder.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
State of Georgia scammed out of 1.6 million dollars, Texas Company promised supply of 100,000 doses of Flu Vaccine, FBI confirms the Company never had the Vaccine and able to recover all but 70,000.

12-25-2003 FBI: State Victimized in Flu Shot Fraud

ATLANTA - Faced with nationwide flu shot shortages, Georgia health officials came across an offer they absolutely couldn't refuse -- all the flu shots they could want.

A private vendor offered the state 100,000 doses of flu shots for $1.65 million, twice what the shots would have cost earlier in the flu season.

They wired the money. But the flu shots never came, because they never existed, state officials said Wednesday. Georgia fell victim to the bait-and-switch, one of the oldest holiday scams on the books.

And some people think White Collar Crime has no real victims... If it were my country I would behead the people responsible for this fraud.

Remind me not to live in your country. Hate to see what the punishment is for murder.

Sorry bout that.. I just hate it when people take advantage of others in such a great time of need... I may have given it a second thought and decided my punishment was too harsh... maybe....