Official E3 Rumor Thread

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
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*Changed this to the Official E3 Rumor Thread*

Only 22 days to go until E3. Let's put all rumors and speculation here.

Avatars

Any time one video game company attempts to capitalize on another company's good idea, there's always a bit of backlash from the fans of the company copied. We can only imagine the kind of retribution Microsoft will soon face from fans of the Wii's Miis and the PS3's Home -- if our sources are accurate, their upcoming "Avatar" service bears a striking resemblance to Sony and Nintendo's pre-existing lookalike creators.

"Avatars", mentioned in an independent survey for Microsoft (as taken by an X3F tipster), will supposedly be used in place of gamer pictures, and will give Xbox Live subscribers an animated, customizable online persona. The meager amount of information provided for the service claims it will be available "this holiday for all Xbox Live connected members", and "this Spring for all new console owners."

This information lines up nicely with details recently relayed to Joystiq by a trusted source, who tells us that a robust "avatar" (source's term) creation service which blends the customization options of Home with the in-game functionality of Miis would comprise a substantial chunk of the 360's fall update. With the breath of E3 hot upon our nape, we're sure to hear something more concrete about this service in the coming month.

'Lips'

While the "Lips" rumor has been circulating the tubes for some time now it was never really known exactly what the thing was. A game? A peripheral? A female fashion accessory? We just weren't sure. Now with Microsoft leaking like a sieve there are finally some details on the project.

Apparently Lips is the codename for a karaoke game that uses a specialized microphone with built-in lights and a limited motion detector. To go with the pair of mics that are included in the default package, the game itself will have 30 songs right out of the box and features the ability to import music from a CD or Ipod to sing along with. To help with that, the game somehow reduces the vocals of the imported songs, and includes a way to place the lyrics of the songs on-screen a la "normal" karaoke.

This is MS we're talking about here, so there is of course a healthy DLC component to the thing too. Lips is also going to have "hundreds of music videos" available for download to ensure that MS sees its fair share of continuing profits. However the likelihood of people paying for them, given the ability to import their own songs, is rather doubtful.

Forza 3 (also being discussed in the Gamenight thread)

We know there is a certain section of the readership that hates our guts for posting rumors, but frankly, we really don't much care. We do our best to show exactly where rumors come from, and always leave it to you to make the decision about their truthfulness for yourselves. This next one came from the same survey page that the "Xbox Avatar" rumor came from, and has all sorts of goodies in it.

The page states that Forza 3 will ship on two discs, have some sort of "assist system", will be loaded to the brim with content (400 cars, 100 tracks, etc) and will have car deformation. Really though, the biggest news here is the possible hint (if the survey page is to be believed) that the game was constrained by the limitations of the DVD format ...

GHIV to be $179.99

Game Show Channel?

A new social gaming channel is coming to Xbox LIVE, one that looks to be another attempt from Microsoft to target the casual gaming crowd with "programmatic, highly concurrent social interactive games." That's the long way of saying "game shows" as Xbox LIVE versions of Jeopardy! and Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? appear to be coming to the "SBG Channel."

Leaked information that pointed to an Avatars system coming to Xbox 360 and games like Lips and Forza Motorsport 3 also dishes details on the SBG Channel. The channel is said to also feature "concepts" in the "Trivia, Reality TV, Puzzles and Sports" genres with live events and plans to feature real-world and virtual prizes.

Looks like E3 could end up being anti-climatic for MS as they had mentioned they had other stuff up their sleeve.
 

oznerol

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Very nice post Queasy - digging the compilation work.

Avatars - I gather the initial reaction to this is apathy because people are "too cool" for this stuff. Either that or complaining that it's just copying the Mii system. But I'm actually a really big fan of the idea. I love playing dress-up in games and having a personalized representation of myself would be cool. I just imagine every item will be on a pay-per-use basis like the majority of gamerpics now.

Lips - Man, I would love this if it were a DLC-only game. By that I mean no disc involved at all. Maybe even a free download of the core game with like 1-2 public domain songs and a pay-per-song model. I imagine it won't be, though, and so I doubt I will be buying it.

Forza 3 = meh

GH4 = $180 = no thanks

Game Show Channel - Initial thought - awesome, I'm a game show nerd! Second thought - I wonder how they're going to try and rape us with prices!
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
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I don't care about Home, so MS' Home-mii don't play that for me.

Karaoke and racing aren't high on my must-buy list either. C'mon MS, 360 is supposed to be the one that does have games. Make me want Jasper.

 

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
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Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
I don't care about Home, so MS' Home-mii don't play that for me.

Karaoke and racing aren't high on my must-buy list either. C'mon MS, 360 is supposed to be the one that does have games. Make me want Jasper.

It seems like you are looking for every excuse not get a 360. First it's Falcon, then it's Jasper, then it's saying it doesn't have any games? If that's true, the ps3 doesn't hold a candle to the xbox360 in your logic.
 

erwos

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: foghorn67
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
I don't care about Home, so MS' Home-mii don't play that for me.

Karaoke and racing aren't high on my must-buy list either. C'mon MS, 360 is supposed to be the one that does have games. Make me want Jasper.

It seems like you are looking for every excuse not get a 360. First it's Falcon, then it's Jasper, then it's saying it doesn't have any games? If that's true, the ps3 doesn't hold a candle to the xbox360 in your logic.
Totally agree.

This _isn't about you_. It's about appealing to the casual crowd that Nintendo seems to do so well with.
 

Modeps

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
17,254
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Lips sounds odd. I'm down for Avatars, as about the only thing I really dig with the Wii is the Miis and their in-game appearances. Forza 3? I'm not a sim fan. When GH:World Tour was announced, I knew I wouldn't be getting it. The price point makes that even more clear... finally, Game Show? I'm all over that. :D
 

bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
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No one should be surprised by GH4's $180 price point. I'm certain that Activision will also likely sell it with just a guitar for $100 and the game by itself for $60.
 

oznerol

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Apr 29, 2002
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Originally posted by: foghorn67
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
I don't care about Home, so MS' Home-mii don't play that for me.

Karaoke and racing aren't high on my must-buy list either. C'mon MS, 360 is supposed to be the one that does have games. Make me want Jasper.

It seems like you are looking for every excuse not get a 360. First it's Falcon, then it's Jasper, then it's saying it doesn't have any games? If that's true, the ps3 doesn't hold a candle to the xbox360 in your logic.

Yes, he's a very subtle Sony troll. Just ignore it.

There's now rumors that GH4 will have the Doors.

If it does, I will be pissed, mainly because the urge to buy it will increase dramatically.

I'm also beginning to get more and more skeptical about Rock Band now that there's rumors of a Rock Band 2 - I am doubting existing DLC will work with it, and more so, I doubt Rock Band 1 songs will be available. Don't these people get that I don't want to switch discs at all?

Eh. Unless I see some Grade A DLC coming out for Rock Band (sorry, the Pixies is not Grade A - I'm talking music that could stand on its own - Zeppelin, AC/DC, Beatles, etc), my optimism shall run low.
 

erwos

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2005
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Repost from my TXB response:

I have mixed feelings about all of this. I own all three consoles, so I don't really have much to lose no matter how any of this turns out.

I understand that Microsoft wants to appeal to the mass market, because Nintendo has done so disturbingly well there. I would say that, even though I'm not terribly attracted to these things, they're a step towards that goal. So, from that perspective, it's a good thing, and Microsoft should keep it up.

In particular, LIPS is probably a necessity, given how well Singstar does in Europe. I'm a little annoyed that they couldn't have used the headset mics for this kind of thing, but perhaps they don't have enough bandwidth, and maybe they found that full-out microphones are somehow more appealing to casuals.

I would find it quite impressive if they were gutsy enough to offer up a 360 Arcade with no wireless gamepad or arcade games, but instead had a remote control, the Scene It! kit, and the new LIPS gear. Face the facts, folks: gamepads scare people. A trimmed-down new interface for casuals would also be good - the blade is awesome, but I think something more task-oriented (ala the Wii's dashboard) would appeal more to them, especially in combination with the IR remote control.

Avatars are nice, although implementation is going to be key here. I could easily foresee avatar-centered XBLA or community games, which is bizarrely something that never happened on the Wii (at least so far). That is to say, instead of an all-encompassing Home, you would have smaller, more focused experiences (nothing stopping someone from writing the "Avatar Neighborhood" sandbox game, though!).

As for the Forza 3 news, if it's true, all things equal, more Forza is always a good thing. :)

That said, I feel as if Microsoft is indeed missing the boat on social gaming because of their continued non-implementation of _larger_ group structures. I'm not a clan / guild guy - I don't do my gaming in well-organized groups. But there's no ignoring that, in many MMORPGs, guilds are HUGE, and the same goes for clans in FPS games. In fact, it's true even in non-gaming realms - look at how popular groups are on Facebook. These groups don't necessarily need to be hard-core or game-specific, but should allow for some organization-level hierarchies, flexible privileges, titles, game specificity, etc.

I can see why Microsoft would be worried about putting in support like that - there's always a chance that the hard-core groups would wind up driving off the more casual players. But careful design (eg, designating organizations as competitive or non-competitive, and match-making accordingly) could alleviate some of these concerns. And, really, allowing for casuals to organize more easily could turn some of them into the hard-core - the folks who are buying more games and peripherals.
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
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While, MS is working towards the mass market, they are missing the one crucial factor that would appeal to the mass market - PRICE. A good portion of the reason why the Wii is so wildly successful is because of price. Until MS gets the 360 with the HDD to $250 or less, they are going to be missing out because casual gamers are not going to spend $300+ for a SingStar clone and Avatars.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
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My first thought on the avatars thing is that it's yet another way for children to be obscene on XBL.

No one wants to hear me sing.

I'm curious about how they're going to handle putting Forza 3 on two discs. Doesn't seem like it'd work well for a racing game, too much disc swapping.

Isn't GHIV going to be a ripoff of Rock Band? I don't know why we'd expect it to cost less.
 

erwos

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Apr 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: mugs
I'm curious about how they're going to handle putting Forza 3 on two discs. Doesn't seem like it'd work well for a racing game, too much disc swapping.
They did just that for Gran Turismo 2 - one disc was for the arcade part, the other was for the simulation.

IMHO, hard drive installs would be better than swapping, but that's a strategic decision, I guess.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
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Originally posted by: erwos
Originally posted by: mugs
I'm curious about how they're going to handle putting Forza 3 on two discs. Doesn't seem like it'd work well for a racing game, too much disc swapping.
They did just that for Gran Turismo 2 - one disc was for the arcade part, the other was for the simulation.

IMHO, hard drive installs would be better than swapping, but that's a strategic decision, I guess.

I remember that now, although I don't think I ever used the arcade disc. Did the two versions differ other than game mechanics (i.e. were there different tracks or cars available in the two versions)? The biggest consumer of disc space is the car models/textures and tracks. I don't think it would be practical to split the cars between two discs (they would probably have to exist on both discs, or they'd have to be copied to the hard drive), so that leaves the tracks being split between two discs.
 

oznerol

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Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: erwos
Originally posted by: mugs
I'm curious about how they're going to handle putting Forza 3 on two discs. Doesn't seem like it'd work well for a racing game, too much disc swapping.
They did just that for Gran Turismo 2 - one disc was for the arcade part, the other was for the simulation.

IMHO, hard drive installs would be better than swapping, but that's a strategic decision, I guess.

I remember that now, although I don't think I ever used the arcade disc. Did the two versions differ other than game mechanics (i.e. were there different tracks or cars available in the two versions)? The biggest consumer of disc space is the car models/textures and tracks. I don't think it would be practical to split the cars between two discs (they would probably have to exist on both discs, or they'd have to be copied to the hard drive), so that leaves the tracks being split between two discs.

You guys are over-thinking it.

Disc 1 will be all even laps. Disc 2 will be odd.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
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Originally posted by: ducci
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: erwos
Originally posted by: mugs
I'm curious about how they're going to handle putting Forza 3 on two discs. Doesn't seem like it'd work well for a racing game, too much disc swapping.
They did just that for Gran Turismo 2 - one disc was for the arcade part, the other was for the simulation.

IMHO, hard drive installs would be better than swapping, but that's a strategic decision, I guess.

I remember that now, although I don't think I ever used the arcade disc. Did the two versions differ other than game mechanics (i.e. were there different tracks or cars available in the two versions)? The biggest consumer of disc space is the car models/textures and tracks. I don't think it would be practical to split the cars between two discs (they would probably have to exist on both discs, or they'd have to be copied to the hard drive), so that leaves the tracks being split between two discs.

You guys are over-thinking it.

Disc 1 will be all even laps. Disc 2 will be odd.

:laugh:
 

dougp

Diamond Member
May 3, 2002
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Originally posted by: Queasy
While, MS is working towards the mass market, they are missing the one crucial factor that would appeal to the mass market - PRICE. A good portion of the reason why the Wii is so wildly successful is because of price. Until MS gets the 360 with the HDD to $250 or less, they are going to be missing out because casual gamers are not going to spend $300+ for a SingStar clone and Avatars.

I don't see why it would matter in regards to the 360 having a HD or not - the Wii doesn't. I do think that they need to make it standard so that developers can utilize it though.
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
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Originally posted by: dreadpiratedoug
Originally posted by: Queasy
While, MS is working towards the mass market, they are missing the one crucial factor that would appeal to the mass market - PRICE. A good portion of the reason why the Wii is so wildly successful is because of price. Until MS gets the 360 with the HDD to $250 or less, they are going to be missing out because casual gamers are not going to spend $300+ for a SingStar clone and Avatars.

I don't see why it would matter in regards to the 360 having a HD or not - the Wii doesn't. I do think that they need to make it standard so that developers can utilize it though.

I think it matters in the sense that I don't see Avatars, the SingStar clone, a game show channel, etc working all that well without an HDD and the memory cards are a non-issue because the 512MB is too expensive for such a small amount of space.
 

erwos

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Apr 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: dreadpiratedoug
Originally posted by: Queasy
While, MS is working towards the mass market, they are missing the one crucial factor that would appeal to the mass market - PRICE. A good portion of the reason why the Wii is so wildly successful is because of price. Until MS gets the 360 with the HDD to $250 or less, they are going to be missing out because casual gamers are not going to spend $300+ for a SingStar clone and Avatars.

I don't see why it would matter in regards to the 360 having a HD or not - the Wii doesn't. I do think that they need to make it standard so that developers can utilize it though.

I think it matters in the sense that I don't see Avatars, the SingStar clone, a game show channel, etc working all that well without an HDD and the memory cards are a non-issue because the 512MB is too expensive for such a small amount of space.
Avatars shouldn't take up much space, and a system could intelligently cache them easily. A game show channel could stream data down trivially from a server. The SingStar clone, you've got a point about that, but GH3 for the Wii is doing just fine without DLC.

Alternatively, Microsoft could just suck it up and launch a much larger memory card (2gb?).
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
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Originally posted by: erwos
Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: dreadpiratedoug
Originally posted by: Queasy
While, MS is working towards the mass market, they are missing the one crucial factor that would appeal to the mass market - PRICE. A good portion of the reason why the Wii is so wildly successful is because of price. Until MS gets the 360 with the HDD to $250 or less, they are going to be missing out because casual gamers are not going to spend $300+ for a SingStar clone and Avatars.

I don't see why it would matter in regards to the 360 having a HD or not - the Wii doesn't. I do think that they need to make it standard so that developers can utilize it though.

I think it matters in the sense that I don't see Avatars, the SingStar clone, a game show channel, etc working all that well without an HDD and the memory cards are a non-issue because the 512MB is too expensive for such a small amount of space.
Avatars shouldn't take up much space, and a system could intelligently cache them easily. A game show channel could stream data down trivially from a server. The SingStar clone, you've got a point about that, but GH3 for the Wii is doing just fine without DLC.

Alternatively, Microsoft could just suck it up and launch a much larger memory card (2gb?).

Regardless, the point I'm trying to make is that the Arcade version is seen as the lesser/gimped version of the 360 and sales of it reflect that. Perhaps if the Arcade was $200 or less but the Pro version should be at the price level of the Wii if they want to compete for the same casual gamer market.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
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Companies copy each other all the time so that doesn't bother me at all. The real question is, does anyone even care? If it shows up I'll mess around with it but I'm definitely not going to X out days on the calendar in anticipation of my shiny new avatar system.
 

erwos

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: Queasy
Regardless, the point I'm trying to make is that the Arcade version is seen as the lesser/gimped version of the 360 and sales of it reflect that. Perhaps if the Arcade was $200 or less but the Pro version should be at the price level of the Wii if they want to compete for the same casual gamer market.
I'm not sure casuals would see it the same way, especially since they're less likely to be buying stuff online anyways.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
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Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
There is only one set of lips, and they are singing Science Fiction Double Feature.

And who the hell decided that GH4 should be $179.99? That is retarded!

GH IV is going to be similar to Rock Band... it will have drums and vocals. $179 is only $10 more than Rock Band.

Rumor has it there is going to be a Def Leppard Edition that has a drum kit that can be played with one arm and two feet.

OK, I just made that part up.