they have home court tonight but that didnt really help them in game 4... i think bug eyes (van exel) really needs to go off for them to have a chance...
** OFFICIAL ** Do Mavs have a chance for 2 in a row w/o Nowitzki?
- Thread starter joe678
- Start date
I was gonna start a thread on the mavs but decided to hijack yours instead. 
In my opinion, the Mavs just might be better W/O Nowitzki. Not that nowitzki isn't a great player but i think too many options hurts this team.
basketball isnt' like baseball, in baseball you can put together a team of all all-stars and that team will be better. that's not necessarily true in bball.
Problem is, Role players are EXTREMELY important.
With Nowitzki on the bench, Nash and Finley become the primary scoring options w/ Van Excel the 6th man (1st option when Nash or Finley goes to the bench). this is the traditional bball team and there is a reason it is traditional, IT WORKS.
With Nowitzki you have 3 primary stars and Finley becomes a liability.
I don't think the mavs are any worse for having nowitzki on the bench, NOW if another of their stars went down, then they would definitely be hurt.
btw, it's not just nowitzki, if finley went out, and nowitzki played the mavs would be better than if all are healthy.
In my opinion, the Mavs just might be better W/O Nowitzki. Not that nowitzki isn't a great player but i think too many options hurts this team.
basketball isnt' like baseball, in baseball you can put together a team of all all-stars and that team will be better. that's not necessarily true in bball.
Problem is, Role players are EXTREMELY important.
With Nowitzki on the bench, Nash and Finley become the primary scoring options w/ Van Excel the 6th man (1st option when Nash or Finley goes to the bench). this is the traditional bball team and there is a reason it is traditional, IT WORKS.
With Nowitzki you have 3 primary stars and Finley becomes a liability.
I don't think the mavs are any worse for having nowitzki on the bench, NOW if another of their stars went down, then they would definitely be hurt.
btw, it's not just nowitzki, if finley went out, and nowitzki played the mavs would be better than if all are healthy.
I sure hope so. We'll see tonight.. they play well under pressure
I'd be real happy to see em win and then watch everyone rant and rave about how they suck and how they'll never win in the finals.
I'd be real happy to see em win and then watch everyone rant and rave about how they suck and how they'll never win in the finals.
Originally posted by: LeeTJ
I was gonna start a thread on the mavs but decided to hijack yours instead.
In my opinion, the Mavs just might be better W/O Nowitzki. Not that nowitzki isn't a great player but i think too many options hurts this team.
basketball isnt' like baseball, in baseball you can put together a team of all all-stars and that team will be better. that's not necessarily true in bball.
Problem is, Role players are EXTREMELY important.
With Nowitzki on the bench, Nash and Finley become the primary scoring options w/ Van Excel the 6th man (1st option when Nash or Finley goes to the bench). this is the traditional bball team and there is a reason it is traditional, IT WORKS.
With Nowitzki you have 3 primary stars and Finley becomes a liability.
I don't think the mavs are any worse for having nowitzki on the bench, NOW if another of their stars went down, then they would definitely be hurt.
btw, it's not just nowitzki, if finley went out, and nowitzki played the mavs would be better than if all are healthy.
What the hell are you talking about? When Finley went out with a hamstring injury the last 1/4 of the season, the Mavs lost a huge % of their games. Well no more than probably 30% but Finley's injury cost them the #1 spot in the West.
If both Nash and VE can step it up along with Finley we have a great chance tonight. Finley stepped up big, but he can't carry the load on his shoulders alone
Originally posted by: Angrymarshmello
Originally posted by: LeeTJ
I was gonna start a thread on the mavs but decided to hijack yours instead.
In my opinion, the Mavs just might be better W/O Nowitzki. Not that nowitzki isn't a great player but i think too many options hurts this team.
basketball isnt' like baseball, in baseball you can put together a team of all all-stars and that team will be better. that's not necessarily true in bball.
Problem is, Role players are EXTREMELY important.
With Nowitzki on the bench, Nash and Finley become the primary scoring options w/ Van Excel the 6th man (1st option when Nash or Finley goes to the bench). this is the traditional bball team and there is a reason it is traditional, IT WORKS.
With Nowitzki you have 3 primary stars and Finley becomes a liability.
I don't think the mavs are any worse for having nowitzki on the bench, NOW if another of their stars went down, then they would definitely be hurt.
btw, it's not just nowitzki, if finley went out, and nowitzki played the mavs would be better than if all are healthy.
What the hell are you talking about? When Finley went out with a hamstring injury the last 1/4 of the season, the Mavs lost a huge % of their games. Well no more than probably 30% but Finley's injury cost them the #1 spot in the West.
If both Nash and VE can step it up along with Finley we have a great chance tonight. Finley stepped up big, but he can't carry the load on his shoulders alone
Since dallas finished with a .732 record, i would say that losing 30% of their games isn't statistically different from the pace they went for the whole season.
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Prediction:
Mavs blowout Spurs by 20 tonight, win Game 7, and Nets sweep the Mavs with Dirk in the Finals.
hehe...i wish...in response to leetj: nowitzki is still clearly their best player by far, no matter how much they talk about a big 3. when he goes to the bench they have to scramble more for offense, not nearly as bad as NJ w/kidd, but noticeably. and role players are role players for a reason, they cant cut it night in and out, which is why i posed the question can they do it again?
Originally posted by: joe678
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Prediction:
Mavs blowout Spurs by 20 tonight, win Game 7, and Nets sweep the Mavs with Dirk in the Finals.
hehe...i wish...in response to leetj: nowitzki is still clearly their best player by far, no matter how much they talk about a big 3. when he goes to the bench they have to scramble more for offense, not nearly as bad as NJ w/kidd, but noticeably. and role players are role players for a reason, they cant cut it night in and out, which is why i posed the question can they do it again?
If it were me, i'd rather have 2 productive scorers and 3 role players (defensive specialists and rebounders) than have 3 scorers and 2 role players.
Originally posted by: LeeTJ
Originally posted by: Angrymarshmello
Originally posted by: LeeTJ
I was gonna start a thread on the mavs but decided to hijack yours instead.
In my opinion, the Mavs just might be better W/O Nowitzki. Not that nowitzki isn't a great player but i think too many options hurts this team.
basketball isnt' like baseball, in baseball you can put together a team of all all-stars and that team will be better. that's not necessarily true in bball.
Problem is, Role players are EXTREMELY important.
With Nowitzki on the bench, Nash and Finley become the primary scoring options w/ Van Excel the 6th man (1st option when Nash or Finley goes to the bench). this is the traditional bball team and there is a reason it is traditional, IT WORKS.
With Nowitzki you have 3 primary stars and Finley becomes a liability.
I don't think the mavs are any worse for having nowitzki on the bench, NOW if another of their stars went down, then they would definitely be hurt.
btw, it's not just nowitzki, if finley went out, and nowitzki played the mavs would be better than if all are healthy.
What the hell are you talking about? When Finley went out with a hamstring injury the last 1/4 of the season, the Mavs lost a huge % of their games. Well no more than probably 30% but Finley's injury cost them the #1 spot in the West.
If both Nash and VE can step it up along with Finley we have a great chance tonight. Finley stepped up big, but he can't carry the load on his shoulders alone
Since dallas finished with a .732 record, i would say that losing 30% of their games isn't statistically different from the pace they went for the whole season.
When Finley went out (Cleveland game 3/18) they were 51-16. When he came back (Seattle game 4/14) they were 58-22.
16/67 = 23.9% losing record with Finley
6/13 = 46.2% losing record without Finley
Facts don't lie. Neither do numbers. The Mavs are substantially worse without Finley. Their losing percentage without him was twice what it was with him.
Originally posted by: Angrymarshmello
Originally posted by: LeeTJ
Originally posted by: Angrymarshmello
Originally posted by: LeeTJ
I was gonna start a thread on the mavs but decided to hijack yours instead.
In my opinion, the Mavs just might be better W/O Nowitzki. Not that nowitzki isn't a great player but i think too many options hurts this team.
basketball isnt' like baseball, in baseball you can put together a team of all all-stars and that team will be better. that's not necessarily true in bball.
Problem is, Role players are EXTREMELY important.
With Nowitzki on the bench, Nash and Finley become the primary scoring options w/ Van Excel the 6th man (1st option when Nash or Finley goes to the bench). this is the traditional bball team and there is a reason it is traditional, IT WORKS.
With Nowitzki you have 3 primary stars and Finley becomes a liability.
I don't think the mavs are any worse for having nowitzki on the bench, NOW if another of their stars went down, then they would definitely be hurt.
btw, it's not just nowitzki, if finley went out, and nowitzki played the mavs would be better than if all are healthy.
What the hell are you talking about? When Finley went out with a hamstring injury the last 1/4 of the season, the Mavs lost a huge % of their games. Well no more than probably 30% but Finley's injury cost them the #1 spot in the West.
If both Nash and VE can step it up along with Finley we have a great chance tonight. Finley stepped up big, but he can't carry the load on his shoulders alone
Since dallas finished with a .732 record, i would say that losing 30% of their games isn't statistically different from the pace they went for the whole season.
When Finley went out (Cleveland game 3/18) they were 51-16. When he came back (Seattle game 4/14) they were 58-22.
16/67 = 23.9% losing record with Finley
6/13 = 46.2% losing record without Finley
Facts don't lie. Neither do numbers. The Mavs are substantially worse without Finley. Their losing percentage without him was twice what it was with him.
since i went by your own numbers of 30% i'm not sure why you are reprimanding me about facts not lying.
finley is more important to their team than nowitzki, i have no problem with that assumption either.
nowitzki is a liability on the defensive end and until he plays above average defense he will never be more than a scorer that is a liability on the D.
i still think dallas is better w/o nowtzki than they are with him and your statistics haven't convinced me otherwise.
My statistics were never about Dirk - they were about Finley:
And about Dirk - I dont think you're right that Dallas would be better without him. Yes, it would allow Finley to step his game up back to the level it used to be, but who are you going to replace him with? Raef? LOL. Bradley? LOL. Walt? LOL. Raja? semi-LOL: give him a couple years...he could turn into something good if they allow his game to develop.
Dirk is average or below average at defense no doubt, but the Mavericks are average or below average at defense as a whole. Every player is as responsible and liable for the Mav's defense as Dirk is.
And about Dirk - I dont think you're right that Dallas would be better without him. Yes, it would allow Finley to step his game up back to the level it used to be, but who are you going to replace him with? Raef? LOL. Bradley? LOL. Walt? LOL. Raja? semi-LOL: give him a couple years...he could turn into something good if they allow his game to develop.
Dirk is average or below average at defense no doubt, but the Mavericks are average or below average at defense as a whole. Every player is as responsible and liable for the Mav's defense as Dirk is.
Dallas with Nash, Raja, Finley, Najara and Raef in my opinion is better balanced and has the potential to score just as much as Nash, Raja, Finley, Dirk, Raef.
problem is, if dirk plays instead of Najara, you lose a lot of TOUGHNESS and Finley kind of disappears.
Dirk doesn't have the overall offensive game that finley does either. finley is pretty amazing.
finley is a wayyy underrated superstar.
I'll agree with you on that - he is amazing. He's took his own game down a notch and hurt his stats and career to let Nash and Dirk step their game up. That's unselfish and shows leadership on his part. I don't think the potential to score is there in the first 5 - with Finley and Nash, definetly. Raef is spotty at best. Najera has yet to really develop his offensive game. Raja's is there but undeveloped - he's good at D though.
You take out Dirk and you lose that offensive potentness that Dallas possess. They were the #1 team on offense (iirc) and in points the whole season for a reason. I don't think the tradeoff of slightly better defense makes up for the slightly worse offense. Dirk during the regular season and most of the playoffs have been the Mav's leading scorer. You would be giving up a LOT by getting rid of him.
You take out Dirk and you lose that offensive potentness that Dallas possess. They were the #1 team on offense (iirc) and in points the whole season for a reason. I don't think the tradeoff of slightly better defense makes up for the slightly worse offense. Dirk during the regular season and most of the playoffs have been the Mav's leading scorer. You would be giving up a LOT by getting rid of him.
have a chance? yes. Likely to win? nope.
and about this whole thing of being better without Nowitzki I say no way. I think they are a different team for sure but not better without him. I also think you need to take into acount the opponent when considering who you want out on the floor. If your opponent's best player is a power foward like Duncan you want Najara out there giving him a battle on ever possesion for example. However I do agree that Finley is the man and I love the play of Najara, that guy plays hard core every second he is out there, the superstars should take notes from him on that. But Duncan owns them all and will pull out the win tonight, and hopefully Popavich won't let his team fall asleep on offensive this time. All SA had to do was pass it around and hit the open jumpers but everyone was scared, what WAS that?
and about this whole thing of being better without Nowitzki I say no way. I think they are a different team for sure but not better without him. I also think you need to take into acount the opponent when considering who you want out on the floor. If your opponent's best player is a power foward like Duncan you want Najara out there giving him a battle on ever possesion for example. However I do agree that Finley is the man and I love the play of Najara, that guy plays hard core every second he is out there, the superstars should take notes from him on that. But Duncan owns them all and will pull out the win tonight, and hopefully Popavich won't let his team fall asleep on offensive this time. All SA had to do was pass it around and hit the open jumpers but everyone was scared, what WAS that?
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