OEMs, are they any good?

Platyply

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Nov 24, 2000
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Here is a message I submitted to CNET in response to a review of the Dell Dimension 4100. Am I alone thinking that OEMs are the worst computing solutions on the face of the earth? Who are these people that call themselves enthusiast and buy OEMs? Read the response, and let me know if I am alone.



<< I was much like most people on this board, clueless towards computers. Many people here boast about their specs and how their systems screams, etc. However, in a year, when you have to upgrade this machine. You'll be shaking your heads and wishing you went with a mom and pop shop or built your own machine. Heed my warning: ALL OEMs are bad. I've owned two in the past couple of years and they all have the same problems: integrated parts, limited expansion, poor support a year down the line when they release new models, and pitiful performance when compared to PCs who are custom built by their owners or local computer shops. Customization and Configuring your system are two different things, you are not customizing your system on DELL.com your simply choosing from products they have already selected to be cost-effective for them. Those cases that DELL ships are horrible, and you'll see why come expansion or upgrade time. You'll also notice how support suddenly fades away when Dell is completely on the Pentium 4 bandwagon. Speaking of the Pentium 4, did you know that AMD offers a 1.2Ghz Athlon that is more than $400 less and matches or BEATS the Pentium 4 during benchmark tests. Yet, Dell doesn't want to offer AMD processors. Moreover, the PC133 RAM that Athlon requires is cheaper than Rambus DRAM and offers comparable performance. Do you have any idea the brand HD? RAM? &quot;Its 7200RPM, and has 40GB it doesn't matter!&quot; WRONG! There is a siginificant performance difference between brands, and FYI accept nothing else than an IBM Deskstar 75GXP. Do you know the CAS rating on those DELL RAMs? &quot;It doesn't matter I have 256MB&quot; WRONG! Again, you want CAS2, but knowing DELL they ship CAS3. Same goes with the graphics card, CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, etc. The brands represent quality, something that is lacking in OEM parts. My advice: build your own PC or get one custom built at a reputable local computer shop, and don't call yourself an enthusiast if your buying OEMs -- that just proves you don't enough about computers because if you did you wouldn't go the OEM route. Check out independent hardware sites on the internet (i.e. anandtech.com, sharkyextreme.com) for starters and learn something about computers before you buy. Commercial sites like these will never reveal the flaws of OEMs, and fool consumers into buying one. I would know, I listened to these commercial sites and magazines and got burned twice from two different OEMs. I got nothing against OEMs, but from what I've experienced and learned, you will go wrong with them. You can flame me if you want or heed my advice, either way, OEMs are still awful computing solutions. >>

 

Vegito

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 1999
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Wow... Cnet people are bunch of idiots...

I dont think they know the definition of OEM... but anyway, half my dell came with cas2 and the other half are cas3

 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
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Very nice post Platyply. You're preaching to the choir around here, but it's good for those reading CNet to hear things like that now and then. :)
 

Ben88

Senior member
Sep 21, 2000
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Forcesho what's the point of having both cas2 and cas3 in the same machine? It will all have to run at cas3.
 

office boy

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
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Amen brother.

So many mags do their performance reviews of OEM computers, and i just can't help but laugh... In fact I wrote a letter much like your a year ago, and the mag published it, with a nice editorial note about how stuff that you mention (brand model importance) didn't matter at all...
 

SPAnDAU

Senior member
Oct 15, 1999
677
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I work at a mom and pop shop, and there are a some valid points in your letter, lets look at it from a resellers point of view.

Clone computers are definately more upgradable than most Dell's, Compaq's etc. There isn't really much of a question there.

CAS latency in memory isn't that big of an issue. The way 98% of people use their systems, (surfing, office apps, moderate gaming)cas latency isn't noticeable, and when there is as much as a 10% price difference in the two, any manufacturer will use the cheaper of the two. Try explaining the diff between cas 2 and 3 to the average person. ;)

For hard drives, again performance between one brand and another, (all things being equal, 7200 rpm, 2MB cache) isn't really noticeable in realworld usage, therefore most companies use the drives that were cheapest that week. Reliability however is a huge issue. I wouldn't put a WD hard drive in a system to save my life. IBM's are great, Fujitsu's aren't performance kings, but are about the most reliable drives I've ever seen.

Most people seem to get that not all 32M video cards are built the same. Most people know that a 32M Rage128 isn't even close to a 32M GF MX.

The biggest consideration shoppers look at is serviceability. They really care if it's going to take a day or a month to fix their system if it fails. One of the most common failures on a system is either the power supply fan failing, or the PS itself dies. The fans in standard AT and ATX power supplies are readily available, and can be replaced by anyone comfortable enough to open the PS, and only costs about $10CDN. Worst case scenario is you replace the PS for $40-$80.

Now, your average compaq or HP uses a proprietary PS that usually operates at 95-115W. If the fan fails, your out of luck because the fans aren't a standard size. You can't replace the PS with a standard one because it physically won't fit. The average replacement cost is 4 times a standard part and only takes a few minutes. That's if you take it to a shop like this. If you go to a larger store like Future Shop or Computer City etc, it can easily take 2 weeks or longer for a 10 minute job.

If the monitor on you HP or Dell dies, your out of a computer for a few weeks while it gets fixed. Most small shops will give you a loaner to use in the meantime.

The most common problem with PC's in general is that they get confused. That is the software gets fouled up far more than hardware fails. If you call your large OEM and they can't solve your problem in about 15 minutes, they will instruct you in the use of recovery cd's, which will format your hard drive. If you bought your system from a decent mom and pop shop, they will either come to your house if they do residential service, or you can bring it to them and they will fix it for no cost if they sold it. Formatting is rarely ever done by competant techs.

With almost all home pc's by OEM's being proprietary designs, getting replacement parts after two years is almost impossible. It really sucks when your $900 pavilion or presario can't be fixed because you can't get the motherboard, or it is almost the same price as a new cheap computer.

The benefit to going with an OEM machine is you can call them at 3 in the morning and a happy person will answer the phone. Call someone from a small shop at 3AM and you'll likely end up in the hospital.

The biggest factor for any company, big or small, selling computers is building reliable systems as cheap as possible. Extra's like cas latency and hard disk types aren't really an issue unless the customer is technical enough understand. Of course that person is usually building their own.

I think I rambled there, but that's how I see it.
 

Vegito

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 1999
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Half my dell as in out of 15 of the same machines, half are cas2, the other are cas3. Not in the same machine... different brands also when all the machines are order from the same time..
 

jimmygates

Platinum Member
Sep 4, 2000
2,134
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In my dorm I helped 3 people upgrade their systems. At first, their initial idea was to just upgrade their video cards and then maybe add another HDD. All three of them had either mini HP or Compaq computers! These computers come with proprietory power supplies, no AGP (Thanks to i810 chipset) and integreted sound. The case has 2 x 5.25 external bays and 1 floppy bay. I'm just thinking to myself, WHY WOULD COMPAQ AND HP DO THIS TO THIER LOYAL CUSTOMERS.....SELLING THEM GARBAGE THEY CAN ONLY USE FOR 2 MONTHS?? That's right, I said 2 months. All three of my friends only had the computer for 2 MONTHS!@!. Never the less, after I broke to the them bad news about their crappy computer, they just decided to get a new case, motherboard (WITH AGP!), Duron CPU, and Geforce 2 GTS.


Oh ya, I forgot to add when 1 of my friend called Compaq to ask if he could upgrade his video card Compaq had the ballz to say &quot;Your video subsystem is not upgradable. Should I suggest a XXXX Presario with advanced AGP video capabilities for $1200.&quot; DIE...DIE SLOW AND PAINFUL..



-Jimbo
 

Dan

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,080
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I'm sitting here with a Dell 486-33MHz a guy wants me to upgrade. (All he does is use e-mail and do some word processing.) This damn thing uses SIMM's with parity and has more limitations in the bios than you would believe.

I have to call him tomorrow and let him know that it's not going to be worth his time or money to have me work on it.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
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I will add a quick plug for OEMs, even though I generally don't like them.

A friend of mine was upgrading his little brothers old clunker computer as a Christmas present, and asked me to order the parts and do the upgrade. Being the generous person I am ;) I agreed to do it. I found out the machine was an old HP P200 MMX. I was skeptical about the upgradability, but it did end up going just fine. The PS had a couple funky fan power cables coming out of it, and one that actually ran to the sound card. (what the !@#$ was that for???) But it did have an Asus ATX motherboard, so I figure no big deal to swap in a new Gigabyte motherboard with a Cel 600, 128 MB of RAM, and better sound card. We saved the case and PS, CD, floppy, modem, etc. For a grand total of $280 we turned a junky old HP machine into a pretty decent gaming rig.