OEM 24364 flaring tool can't handle steel brake lines

[Torn Mind]

I bought the tool to do inline flares on a car with rusted out brake lines, and after about the fourth flare on steel, threads that are supposed to be a "vice" for the tubing were stripped out and the tubing gets pushed out of the hole with ease.

Also, beware what tubing you buy. I though I had bought NiCu lines, but it was copper-coated steel with plated unions and flare nuts.


I now bought the $40 tool that is sold under Titan, Capri, or Eastwood depending on vender, and the flares are "better" as the are certain beefier with material, although there is still is some inconsistency. This maybe due to poor control in tubing thickness(made in China, of course) or the die wears rapidly after only one use. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Capri-Tools-3-16-in-Double-Flaring-Tool-CP21110-316/313090824

Here's hoping I can make the four good flares need to seal up the braking system.

 

[RLGL]

You say flaring tool, I hope it is for double flares.

 

[Paperdoc]

I had a similar problem but traced it to a different cause. The auto parts shop where I bought tubing and fittings also loans out for free their flaring tool kit. I could not get it to work. Repeated tries yielded off-centre deformations that were crooked on the end of the tube and useless. Then I discovered that the store stocks and sells tubing in standard English measurements (used in USA, too) and some in standard metric sizes, and the sizes are so close that they often are sold as "universal", with fittings also that work with either type of tubing. HOWEVER, I had American-type tubing for a Ford product, and the loaner tool was for metric tubing. The key part that does the flaring has a pin that must fit snugly inside the tubing end to keep it straight on the end, and the mis-match made that part fit too loosely, so it bent over a bit every time it was pushed into the tube. When I got that figured, I talked my favourite mechanic into loaning me that one piece from his American-standard flaring kit, and it worked perfectly first time!

 

[mindless1]

The butterfly style loaner tools at most auto parts stores are the most difficult to use, very unrepeatable results.

I have the Eastwood version of the Capri and even on the first try using it with steel line, the result was as good as the best double flare that I made with a loaner tool, but then you can repeatably do it which is pretty important if you already have the line cut to size.

It's also nice when the flares are good enough that you're not subjecting the nut to excessive torque trying to mash the parts together to get them to seal, especially if you live in the rust belt and have any desire to take it back apart later.

 

[RLGL]

Double flare on brake line, have seen a single flare crack after a bit of time.

 

[Torn Mind]

The butterfly style loaner tools at most auto parts stores are the most difficult to use, very unrepeatable results.

I have the Eastwood version of the Capri and even on the first try using it with steel line, the result was as good as the best double flare that I made with a loaner tool, but then you can repeatably do it which is pretty important if you already have the line cut to size.

It's also nice when the flares are good enough that you're not subjecting the nut to excessive torque trying to mash the parts together to get them to seal, especially if you live in the rust belt and have any desire to take it back apart later.

Well, I don't what the hell Toyota spec'd for the brake line steel in their 1996 Camry, but the Capri began losing its clamping effectiveness on steel lines after two uses. Slipping began AGAIN and of course, I had to cut the line further back....I guess the final third flare I made was a last gasp....barely passable flare...... using that last gasp of torque the poor metal could muster.....

(The second flare was messed up trying not bend the original lines too much while turning the tubing cutter around only halfway on each side).

Is NiCu magnetic? Because whatever I bought from Amazon is clearly magnetic but nowhere near as rigid as the steel OEM Toyota lines. The Capri can still flare those Chinesium lines.


Looks like I'm going to have to initiate a return and then dip into the Home Depot well for the Rigid 345-DL.

 

[mindless1]

The steel line I was using it with was AGS Poly Armour from Autozone. If I have a bad spot on a brake line I replace the entire run so couldn't tell you how it does on any OEM line.

CuNi line (around 5X+ more copper than nickel) is also often meaning CuNiFer because it has a little iron in it, and nickel is slightly ferromagnetic too, so it is not unusual for it to have "some" magnetic attraction but nowhere near as much as a faux plated steel line would have.

If the wall thickness and diameter is the same and it's nowhere as rigid then I would assume it has to have a significant amount of copper, but probably has more of its magnetic attraction from iron in it if a value priced product on amazon, since nickel is much more expensive than iron or copper, and it couldn't have that much nickel anyway because it'd be much stiffer.

 

[Torn Mind]

The steel line I was using it with was AGS Poly Armour from Autozone. If I have a bad spot on a brake line I replace the entire run so couldn't tell you how it does on any OEM line.

CuNi line (around 5X+ more copper than nickel) is also often meaning CuNiFer because it has a little iron in it, and nickel is slightly ferromagnetic too, so it is not unusual for it to have "some" magnetic attraction but nowhere near as much as a faux plated steel line would have.

If the wall thickness and diameter is the same and it's nowhere as rigid then I would assume it has to have a significant amount of copper, but probably has more of it's magnetic attraction from iron in it if a value priced product on amazon, since nickel is much more expensive than iron or copper.

It's definitely magnetic and the same size. I have some socket magnets from Lang that can cling to the tubing no problem. The 14mm size magnet clings just as well, if not slightly better, to the new tubing as it does to OEM Toyota steel.

Based the cross section of the cut of the new tubing, it seems more like a thin layer of copper plating with a silvery center resembling steel or iron rather than an copper alloy throughout.

Even the weak refrigerator magnet from RockAuto has a little cling to the tubing.

Maybe...the tubing is literally just iron?

 

[mindless1]

It won't be just iron, nowhere near ductile enough. It could be faux CuNi, and that seems right based on your description. The last thing that CuNi would be is all the copper on the outside, would defeat the purpose.

 

[Torn Mind]

Well, I'm actually liking the fact this soft "steel" or whatever alloy they cooked up on the cheap can be bent somewhat easily by hand. The car is old as hell and not for long in this world, so I don't need to treat it like a fine relic.

But the nerd in me still wonders what steel can be this soft....

 

[mindless1]

I am not a metallurgist, cannot guess what Chinese ingenuity was used to drive the cost down.

For reference here is some line that I bought on amazon, that I believe to be true CuNi line. At 0.028" wall thickness, it is the minimum needed to meet DOT spec SAE #J1650 for CuNi line.

It has very low attraction to a rare earth magnet, almost imperceptible.

Amazon.com: 15 Ft Roll of 3/16" (.028" Wall) Copper/Cupronickel Brake Line Tubing with fittings & union: Automotive

Buy 15 Ft Roll of 3/16" (.028" Wall) Copper/Cupronickel Brake Line Tubing with fittings & union: Hydraulic Parts - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

I've included a relatively clean/shiny penny as a color reference because I have no sense of red due to my monitor having blue turned down to reduce eyestrain.

In person it looks fairly light gold colored and the cut end looks exactly the same as the exterior, no plating just rougher which might make the picture look more silver colored from the light reflection but it is the same light golden color throughout.

 

[Torn Mind]

Welp, the Rigid tool arrived and while it might be great for many things, it too will not handle this Toyota super steel brake line because the 3/16 hole has no threads while every other larger size does. The results are predictable. The old Toyota line just slips out.

Welp, I have no choice. I'll just buy some clamper type or the same inline tool in the title from Autozone and get one last flare on another line of Toyota steel. The return it saying the stuff stripped itself out. Everything else should be a breeze with the soft Chinesium.

Lines have rusted above the freaking rearcrossmember and I'm just going to skip disassembly and trying to hook into the proportioning valve and just run new line directly to the rear drum brakes so I can have some semblance of brake pressure.

 

[mindless1]

If I were looking at the vehicle with you, I'd understand exactly what you mean. Without that, I revert back to what I always do which is replace the entire run from component-component. IMO, no portion of OEM line is worth saving once any part is degraded enough to need replaced.

It's all in the same environment, had the same brake fluid in it, and there is great satisfaction in knowing that if the entire run is replaced, it is very unlikely to fail again for the life of the vehicle.

The OEM line might be stainless and that would account for the difficulty, but a less than good grade of it so eventually given the environment, it's not going to last forever. Either way it did reasonably well to last as long as it did but once it reaches end of life, it is less serviceable. Rust can accumulate on both inside and outside and it is not going to allow a good flare if present in any significant amount.

I don't know how long you intend to keep the vehicle, but having gone through this myself with a different vehicle, I would proceed to replace all hard brake lines (every inch) and the soft lines too if not done in the last decade.

 

[Torn Mind]

If I were looking at the vehicle with you, I'd understand exactly what you mean. Without that, I revert back to what I always do which is replace the entire run from component-component. IMO, no portion of OEM line is worth saving once any part is degraded enough to need replaced.

It's all in the same environment, had the same brake fluid in it, and there is great satisfaction in knowing that if the entire run is replaced, it is very unlikely to fail again for the life of the vehicle.

The OEM line might be stainless and that would account for the difficulty, but a less than good grade of it so eventually given the environment, it's not going to last forever. Either way it did reasonably well to last as long as it did but once it reaches end of life, it is less serviceable. Rust can accumulate on both inside and outside and it is not going to allow a good flare if present in any significant amount.

I don't know how long you intend to keep the vehicle, but having gone through this myself with a different vehicle, I would proceed to replace all hard brake lines (every inch) and the soft lines too if not done in the last decade.

Not stainless due to the line being magnetic. But I guess Toyota was going all in on build quality for the lines for that gen Camry(92-96).

Aside from the spots that rusted, where the lines aren't rusted is a very hard steel that absolutely murders flaring tools. Hell, the section I cut off to make room near the left rear drum hose is rigid and hard as hell. I bought only 15 ft thinking it was just a small section under the driver's seat that needed service.


It's a pain to reach the terminals for the lines both in the front and back. It's a tranverse V6 in the front with an intake plenum and all that jazz.

For the line for the left drum, I can run the new line to the union I had already installed underneath the car. But I just need one more flare for the other line, which has less rust damage, that I haven't cut at all yet, which controls the right rear drum. They junction at a proportioning valve that is above the crossmember.

I've got to disassemble the entire rear end crossmember to get to do a proper job, but I don't have the time, since it's multiple jobs in one. There's a sway bar and all the associated hardware, and I don't have a M18 or the like for that bolt busting torque right now. The sway bar links will like do the spinorama in place, so I need vice grips.

 

[mindless1]

Typical OEM stainless is lower grade and is magnetic. You describe things I cannot appreciate because I can't see it. So, all I can say is, I would replace every inch possible.

 

[Paperdoc]

This may not help you, but it's an idea I have used in similar problems. Before clamping the brake line into the split holder, wrap the line in a small length of emery cloth. Maybe two lengths placed smooth sides to each other, and rough sides out. That makes a rougher gripping surface and also decreases the clearance between tube wall and clamp bore - it's a bit like adding a shim that is somewhat compressible.