Odds of Biden stepping down, being replaced. Choose.

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Odds of Biden stepping down


  • Total voters
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  • Poll closed .

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,038
2,652
136
This is the stark reality facing us right now.

And I have a real, genuine question for you all. No I'm not shitposting, no I'm not concern trolling. But how is it that after the last 8 years of Trump/GOP malfeasance, that the ONLY thing Dems poll better on than Republicans is reproductive healthcare? Not immigration, not economy, not foreign affairs...hell, not even "threats to democracy."

How? Is this an indictment of the voters? The massive right wing media apparatus? The Democratic party themselves?

What should have been a layup all along has been upended in just a week. And that's nothing to say of the down ballot effects that the phrase "gaslighting Dems" will have.
How/why? Uneducated people (those that are incapable of understanding the information that is readly available), in ability to use critical thinking skills (those that are educated but refuse to exercise any critical thinking), and the wilful choice to be ignorant (those that know the information is out there, but chose either to not go find it, or won't believe what it tells them.). All those kinds of polls shows, is just how stupid, lazy, and ignorant the voting populaton is. IF it was actually a symbol of the truth in regard to those catagories, the polls would be in favor of Biden and most democratic leadership, as republican's fail in all of them.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,284
13,581
146
This sounds good and all, but it's just not working. There are a LOT of low information voters out there.



Figure out some way for 75+ million Americans to not continually vote against their self-interests, and we would never have this problem.

Yeah the situation sucks and it's even mildly depressing, but our only option is to fight and try to win important elections. What other choice do we have? Would you prefer to have a 1 in 3 chance of winning, or a 1 in 8 chance?
Maybe it's time to let them vote against their interest and remember why we teach our children about history, since they've obviously forgotten.

Per Luke Kemp, most societies last about 340 years, so maybe it's our lot in life to pull the bell curve down a bit.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,079
21,200
136
I'm past caring, give the country a real litmus test. Let them accept what America actually is; a melting pot of various colors, sexualities, personalities, and ages, and let them decide they'd rather repeat history and descend into madness for a few decades before trying again.
We can't be that idealistic and risk fascism.

As far as Kamala not being a great candidate right now to some - a lot of that is just media driven in the last four years, and nobody can really point out to anything really damning against her at all. 30 year old relationship? gimme a break. ok she will not get the votes of some racists, but guess who the dems biggest demo is that we need to show up in record numbers - women. of all colors.

Maybe she won't be a great candidate, but we know for sure Biden is not competent to campaign for the next four months, let alone be president even for a year. All people want is someone decent and competent to vote for against an extremely unlikeable candidate named Trump, outside his insane base and other goners. Anybody competent could beat Trump from the Dems, as long as they aren't extremely risky - like an all woman ticket or a woman plus a gay guy, etc....we have to play on the playing field we are given, and that includes putting a straight white man on the ticket. It's unfortunately we are not more evolved but we gotta take the steps we can take, and beating Trump and having a woman president who is competent, is a pretty big step.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,079
21,200
136
Do you seriously think Kamala Harris, a woman of color, would win the Presidency. She polls weaker in key electoral states than Biden! And, imho, she simply doesn't present well, in this age where optics are everything. Newsom would wipe the floor with Rump in any debate.

This is for all the marbles. Kamala Harris for reasons many of which are beyond her control, would be a disastrously weak electoral candidate.
I haven't seen those terrible polls, got a link?
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,849
2,806
136
Maybe it's time to let them vote against their interest and remember why we teach our children about history, since they've obviously forgotten.

Per Luke Kemp, most societies last about 340 years, so maybe it's our lot in life to pull the bell curve down a bit.
News alert, they've been voting against their self-interests since the Reagan revolution (and well before that).

So we all get to suffer because there are a lot of deplorables out there and the Electoral College is rigged. That'll teach them? Nobody even knows how unhinged Trump 2.0 will be when he has executive immunity to commit his vengeance campaign. Pretty sure we'd prefer not to find out though.
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,566
9,928
146
538 a couple days ago, iirc. I'll go look for them.
Apologies, MrSQ, couldn't find it. But, I swear, a couple of days ago I read an article on an non-sketchy site that said that although Harris general polling was similar or better than Biden's, she critically lagged in 5 big swing states, which I know included Michigan and my native Pa.

But there's plenty of unlovely news out there for Ms. Harris, for whom, let me be clear, I would give my left testicle to vote for for President if she becomes the Dem nominee.


 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,424
136
I remember in 2020 people saying Biden was going to lose to Trump and then Biden beat Trump by 8 million votes.

I think we should give the American people the benefit of the doubt. I see no reason why those nearly 80 million people would vote any different. And surely we can all agree that Trump hasn’t narrowed that gap since.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,079
21,200
136
Maybe it's time to let them vote against their interest and remember why we teach our children about history, since they've obviously forgotten.

Per Luke Kemp, most societies last about 340 years, so maybe it's our lot in life to pull the bell curve down a bit.

self-immolation or committing seppuku is not the answer and having a couple hundred million decent Americans, especially women and minorities and anyone not rich, suffering under fascism.

Without a doubt Biden and his team took a gamble on him running again. He was not amazing in 2020 but he was the right man for the job then, but he deteriorated pretty fast in office and had very limited and coddled interactions with the media after year 2, which got extremely restrictive every day after. Plenty of us Dems warned about this. Way more than enough that we should have been listened to.

Instead those people kept saying Biden was the best option. Our response was - well, if you think Biden is the very best option the Dems can put forward out of a party that has 45 million registered voters - yes, the best THIS party could do is Joe Biden on the decline, and not just that, but WITH absolutely terrible approval numbers, as in pretty historically bad, well that is just fucking pathetic and we should all resign as Dems right now.

How could anybody look at Biden and think he was the best option out of all the Dems even then?
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,852
136
I remember in 2020 people saying Biden was going to lose to Trump and then Biden beat Trump by 8 million votes.

I think we should give the American people the benefit of the doubt. I see no reason why those nearly 80 million people would vote any different. And surely we can all agree that Trump hasn’t narrowed that gap since.
The main answer for politics people is to chill out.

This answer exists independent of any political campaign.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,079
21,200
136
I remember in 2020 people saying Biden was going to lose to Trump and then Biden beat Trump by 8 million votes.

I think we should give the American people the benefit of the doubt. I see no reason why those nearly 80 million people would vote any different. And surely we can all agree that Trump hasn’t narrowed that gap since.
if you can't see the differences between 2020 and four whole years later, in a country, let alone the world, where things change month by month, week by week, and even day by day, quite dramatically, let alone over four whole years, ESPECIALLY in things like politics (Obama '12 and Trump '16? Hello?) I have no idea what could help. Literally we got Obama in '12 and FOUR frickin years later we got Trump. And now these guys are telling us just to chill, four years is no biggie?

What world have you been living in your whole life? It's not the real world then, if this is what you really think.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,079
21,200
136
It's getting bad. I always thought and said, Biden is a decent and good man, and most of my real life political acquaintances and friends/family agreed. Well, there goes that legacy, now it's just another powerful old man who had too much ego to let go, made it about themselves, and fucked things up by staying in. And a lot of those folks may not be feeling as strong as I am, they also know Biden doesn't have it, and we need a better choice.

Not many 82 year olds are as sharp as Warren Buffet, so Joe Biden should have no shame about it, but, his fucking ego is destroying us now. How typical.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,284
13,581
146
self-immolation or committing seppuku is not the answer and having a couple hundred million decent Americans, especially women and minorities and anyone not rich, suffering under fascism.
Then what is your answer? You have a few dozen individuals facilitating the rise of fascism in the US and enabling what could be the worst catastrophe of human civilization, what's your measured response to the situation? Bear in mind the non-2A mechanism we've been afforded (voting) is being actively attacked, diminished, or eliminated where possible, with the intent on expanding that campaign.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,079
21,200
136
Then what is your answer? You have a few dozen individuals facilitating the rise of fascism in the US and enabling what could be the worst catastrophe of human civilization, what's your measured response to the situation? Bear in mind the non-2A mechanism we've been afforded (voting) is being actively attacked, diminished, or eliminated where possible, with the intent on expanding that campaign.

I've been very vocal about my answer in this and similar threads.

Biden should step down, Kamala becomes the nominee, as she is VP,, and for various other reasons I've stated, and she picks a straight white man vp, such as Shapiro of PA.

I feel that is a fairly specific answer.
 

zzyzxroad

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2017
3,255
2,272
136
I was on the fence until tonight. Biden needs to step-down. He is clearly having major issues.

I will vote for him in November if he is on the ballot but I don't see him winning.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,208
12,525
136
The messaging needs to be clear and consistent. A list of why not Trump all day every day. It isn't about how good Biden is but how much worse Trunp and the Republicans have been and will be for the US. Get non-voters out to vote this year.

So..."I'm suffering from dementia...but I'm still better than that other guy?" Not a great message. I, for one, am tired of voting for "the lesser of two evils." I'd like to see a Democratic candidate I can actually root FOR...that hasn't happened for me since Bill Clinton's first campaign. (and that might have been partly "he's not great, but he's better than Bush or Perot.")

The fact that you've presented the situation as such is embarrassing.

This election should not be 'winnable' over Trump, this election should be a rebuke of trumpism as a whole. It's a sad situation.

Sadly, "Trumpism" is a cult that will have to be killed...not rebuked.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,424
136
if you can't see the differences between 2020 and four whole years later, in a country, let alone the world, where things change month by month, week by week, and even day by day, quite dramatically, let alone over four whole years, ESPECIALLY in things like politics (Obama '12 and Trump '16? Hello?) I have no idea what could help. Literally we got Obama in '12 and FOUR frickin years later we got Trump. And now these guys are telling us just to chill, four years is no biggie?

What world have you been living in your whole life? It's not the real world then, if this is what you really think.

Dems lost in 2016 because they put up Hillary who the republicans had demonized for decades and we had a media who gave trump massive amounts of air time and normalized his behavior because they thought he was a joke candidate.

What’s changed from 2016 to 2020 is a whole hell of lot! Where the f have you been?! The difference between 2020 and now is that trump has gotten worse, including having been convicted, and Biden has done a great job of steering the ship.

You panicking and hoping the Dems take your advice is a misstep waiting to happen when the worst alternative is a dead Biden before the election.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,079
21,200
136
Dems lost in 2016 because they put up Hillary who the republicans had demonized for decades and we had a media who gave trump massive amounts of air time and normalized his behavior because they thought he was a joke candidate.

What’s changed from 2016 to 2020 is a whole hell of lot! Where the f have you been?! The difference between 2020 and now is that trump has gotten worse, including having been convicted, and Biden has done a great job of steering the ship.

You panicking and hoping the Dems take your advice is a misstep waiting to happen when the worst alternative is a dead Biden before the election.
Yeah, a lot has changed, but yet you literally said, we can just rely on 2020 to happen, have faith (in our fellow Americans):

I remember in 2020 people saying Biden was going to lose to Trump and then Biden beat Trump by 8 million votes.

I think we should give the American people the benefit of the doubt. I see no reason why those nearly 80 million people would vote any different. And surely we can all agree that Trump hasn’t narrowed that gap since.

in this original post right above, you completely ignore any reality besides the one that makes you feel good and right - Trump has not changed and narrowed the gap. COmpletely discounting anything else that has happened in politics since, let alone with Biden specifically himself, and then now with this most recent response, now oh wait, there were lots of changes, but yet again, you only cherry pick a few things that make you feel good, disregarding the opinion of Biden and what he's done these last few years with the majority of Americans, which is not very good, so not outside of your liberal political junkie bubble most likely, and again, ignoring any concerns of the majority, about Biden's mental capacity, as if we are back in 2020.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,079
21,200
136
I have a feeling there will be more than enough Dems to put immense amount of pressure on Biden to withdraw sooner than later, and it will get quite loud and quite strong, but I am still not sure Biden and his inner circle will do the right thing. Please let's not have to invoke the 25th here.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,284
13,581
146
So..."I'm suffering from dementia...but I'm still better than that other guy?" Not a great message. I, for one, am tired of voting for "the lesser of two evils." I'd like to see a Democratic candidate I can actually root FOR...that hasn't happened for me since Bill Clinton's first campaign. (and that might have been partly "he's not great, but he's better than Bush or Perot.")



Sadly, "Trumpism" is a cult that will have to be killed...not rebuked.
We couldn't even kill nazis, not sure how we have a snowball's chance in hell of killing Trumpism in the age of the internet.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,424
136
Yeah, a lot has changed, but yet you literally said, we can just rely on 2020 to happen, have faith (in our fellow Americans):



in this original post right above, you completely ignore any reality besides the one that makes you feel good and right - Trump has not changed and narrowed the gap. COmpletely discounting anything else that has happened in politics since, let alone with Biden specifically himself, and then now with this most recent response, now oh wait, there were lots of changes, but yet again, you only cherry pick a few things that make you feel good, disregarding the opinion of Biden and what he's done these last few years with the majority of Americans, which is not very good, so not outside of your liberal political junkie bubble most likely, and again, ignoring any concerns of the majority, about Biden's mental capacity, as if we are back in 2020.

lol trump hasn’t closed any gap. Nice projection on your part though.
 

gothuevos

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2010
2,301
1,839
136
And for the people who claim that all we have to do is shout louder about all the things Trump has done/said/will do...you don't think the media has done that for almost a decade now? It's not eroding his support anymore.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
I have noticed that almost all of your ramblings simply don't apply to me. I think deep down you are a conservative braided person and can't really appreciate that not everyone thinks and feels like you do. It's a key characteristic of conservative brained people. They simply lack empathy.

When I read your posts about ego, fear and self hate, I simply think those things are true of conservative brained people and much less so liberal brained people. I certainly don't relate to most things you say.

Please note that I am referring to their brain wiring, not necessarily political affiliations. It is a spectrum and doesn't always lead to specific voting trends, just how they behave and think.
Are you referring to something like this which I posted in 2012:


May 1, 2012

The Scientific Fundamentalist

A Look at the Hard Truths About Human Nature

by Satoshi Kanazawa




The Hypothesis

Why do people want what they want?

Published on March 14, 2010 by Satoshi Kanazawa in The Scientific Fundamentalist



Where do individual values and preferences come from? Why do people want what they want? What explains the origin of idiosyncratic individual preferences and values?

The problem of values – their origin and individual differences – is one of the unresolved theoretical questions in behavioral sciences. The economists’ traditional answer to the question of individual values and preferences is: De gustibus non est disputandum. There is no accounting for tastes, and one therefore cannot explain individuals’ idiosyncratic values and preferences.

I believe evolutionary psychology is key to uncovering the origin of individual preferences and values. The Savanna Principle states that the human brain has difficulty comprehending and dealing with entities and situations that did not exist in the ancestral environment. The theory of the evolution of general intelligence suggests that general intelligence evolved as a domain-specific psychological adaptation to solve evolutionarily novel problems. Their logical conjunction suggests a qualification of the Savanna Principle and leads to a new hypothesis about individual preferences and values.

Or this from August of the same year





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If general intelligence evolved to deal with evolutionarily novel problems, then the human brain’s difficulty in comprehending and dealing with evolutionarily novel entities and situations (proposed in the Savanna Principle) should interact with general intelligence, such that the Savanna Principle holds stronger among less intelligent individuals than among more intelligent individuals. More intelligent individuals should be better able to comprehend and deal with evolutionarily novel (but not evolutionarily familiar) entities and situations than less intelligent individuals.

Thus the Savanna-IQ Interaction Hypothesis (hereafter “The Hypothesis” in this blog) suggests that less intelligent individuals have greater difficulty than more intelligent people with comprehending and dealing with evolutionarily novel entities and situations that did not exist in the ancestral environment. In contrast, general intelligence does not affect individuals’ ability to comprehend and deal with evolutionarily familiar entities and situations that existed in the ancestral environment.

Evolutionarily novel entities that more intelligent individuals are better able to comprehend and deal with may include ideas and lifestyles, which form the basis of their preferences and values. It would be very difficult for individuals to prefer or value something that they cannot truly comprehend. So, applied to the domain of preferences and values, the Hypothesis suggests that more intelligent individuals are more likely than less intelligent individuals to acquire and espouse evolutionarily novel preferences and values that did not exist in the ancestral environment and thus our ancestors did not have, but general intelligence has no effect on the acquisition and espousal of evolutionarily familiar preferences and values that existed in the ancestral environment.

In future posts, I will discuss some of the implications of the Hypothesis in different domains of life, and empirical evidence pertaining to them.
---------------------------

This article, of course, suggests that liberals are more intelligent than conservatives which seems to directly contradict the notion that conservatives, while as intelligent as liberals and visa versa, simply have a brain defect that keeps them from applying their intelligent to unbiased thinking, but to rationalizations instead. Is this article, then, just liberal bias doing the same thing. It may be, but it is a reasoned argument the guy makes, no, that liberal thinking is the most recent product of human intelligence, the most novel, and the most IQ dependent.

It seems to me that liberal thinking is just the natural result of community living, where folk live in large interconnected civilizations of millions of people, that a liberal is just a conservative with a far bigger family. Seems to me that liberal and conservative just imply how many folk you have empathy for with the fewer the more conservative. Seems to me this could just be the inevitable absorption of the religions that teach brotherhood and the extent to which one sees sameness or difference in others.

So I come back to the ego again. Do you have an ego that compares, that has a need, that fears inferiority and is thus motivated to find somebody out there to feel oneself better than?

Or you can do a P & N forum search for Moonbeam and conservative brain defect.