OCZ Vertex 3 240gb max iops-does anyone knowledgable think it matters?

hotstocks

Member
Jun 20, 2008
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I am a computer expert, but not a SSD expert. I have been trying to figure out if I should return my 240gb Vertex 3 I just got and get the 240gb Vertex 3 max iops version in a couple weeks. I only have a week time frame to return my current drive. What I have read is that there is a BIG difference in the 120gb Vertex 3 to 120gb Vertex 3 max iops in performance. And that there is going to supposedly be NO real world (pc vantage) difference between the 240gb and 240gb max iops. I know that the specs on the max iops is going up 5000 to 10000 iops, but the sequentials might actually go down. I don't really understand iops, and Anand says anything over 20000 you won't see any benefit in speed (except benchmarks). My main reason for an ultra fast SSD, coming from an Intel G2, and before that a Velociraptor, is that I want the FASTEST windows everyday operating system performance, and fastest virus scan performance. So I guess I want the fastest random small read speed. Does this iops issue matter to me? I don't sit there copying movies all day or anything, so I could care less if my sequential is 510mb/s or 490mb/s. Is the max iops 240gb going to be any faster for os performance or just marketing b.s.? I realize it "might" be faster for a server or virtual machine that is getting hammered from megasources, but for normal peoples use is there any difference? Thanks
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
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IMO for normal users, more IOPS won't matter much once you are already at that level.

Oh yeah, and why fast virus scans? After everything is scanned once in your system and you have the anti-virus scanning everything that comes into your system, what possible use can re-scanning your drive be? Computer viruses don't appear out of thin air.
 

hotstocks

Member
Jun 20, 2008
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I have a really fast system 4.7ghz Sandy Bridge, 8gb 1866 ram, gtx 580 and I surf the web a lot, have a ton of things going on in the taskbar, and download a lot of stuff, use facebook, and other ways of getting a virus. My main running anti-virus is AVG Free. However, once a week I run Malware anti-bytes, Emisoft, and Super Anti-spyware. I have had viruses in the past that rendered my disk inoperable till re-format, so I lost data and take it seriously. Emisoft takes about an hour to run on my machine. The other 3 anti virus programs only take a few minutes each. Heck, I can run all FOUR of the anti-virus scans while surfing the web and don't get a slow down. Obviously I only have one anti-virus resident and running at all times, but weekly I like to scan with other programs, since some miss viruses, trojans, or malware. If 240gb max iops would make windows boot faster, Emisoft anti-virus scan faster, and opening multiple windows/tabs and programs faster, than I would want to return my regular Vertex 3 since I just paid $550 two weeks ago, then OCZ slaps us in the face less than a month after Vertex 3 available! And people think Apple screws people over by releasing a new ipone or ipad every year, how about every month OCZ! OCZ should just do what Apple does and let us exchange it for the max iops if it is truly faster for normal users (not servers). My Vertex 3 is fast in almost every way, but it is not faster than my old Intel G2 160gb in the most important 4k random reads. That is what makes a system snappy and Vertex 3 missed the boat in that area, so my question is does the max iops version fix the slow 4k random reads??????????
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
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The answer to your question is "probably not".

I've used the new Panda Cloud Antivirus and I really like it, if you need another option. It's free.
 

bulanula

Member
Apr 20, 2011
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Obviously the MAX IOPS has Toshiba toggle-mode 34nm NAND that is 1) much faster 2) much more reliable in the cycles it can resist 3) more expensive than the 25nm IMFT flash in the normal version.

On another note : you are being paranoid about all those security applications. I used to run Winblows 2000 SP4 without ANY updates without ANY security application or antivirus and yes I did go on "those" websites but with Firefox.

Don't know what you are doing but if you insist being so paranoid might as well switch to Linux !
 

hotstocks

Member
Jun 20, 2008
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Oh, and what about the rumor that it will use faster and more durable 35nm nand
instead of the 25nm slower nand that wears out and dies faster?
 

razel

Platinum Member
May 14, 2002
2,337
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To put things in perspective, your Vertex 3 is already toward the top, if not at the top. If you're truely interested in the fastest windows everyday performance you'll need to let Win7 learn about your ways. If you don't already, load up on at least 8GB of RAM and instead of shutting down, leave you apps open and use standby. You'll be amazed after awhile (months) at how well Vista/7 will stuff things into RAM.

As for your virus scanner... Why not just run it just before you take a crap, shower or eat so that you're not impatiently waiting for it.
 

hotstocks

Member
Jun 20, 2008
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I do have 8gb of ram and leave the computer on most of the day. I shut it off at night, to save power, fan cleaning, and I heard NOT to use standby or hibernate on SSDs, they write all your 8gb of memory and pre-maturely age the SSD.
On the other note, I am not paranoid, but do believe in weekly virus scans, disk cleaning garbage files, and backup. I will never switch to Linux or Apple because there are less viruses, I love windows 7. But I am starting to use Firefox 4 now and can't wait for Firefox 5, probably can get rid of IE altogether then.
 
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imaheadcase

Diamond Member
May 9, 2005
3,850
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IMO for normal users, more IOPS won't matter much once you are already at that level.

Oh yeah, and why fast virus scans? After everything is scanned once in your system and you have the anti-virus scanning everything that comes into your system, what possible use can re-scanning your drive be? Computer viruses don't appear out of thin air.


Actually they do if you got a java/flash one recently.

I have not got a virus in over 10 years, but yesterday was a first. Someone had a post on reddit and for some reason his link was infected and with a faster internet connection you are basically toast even with antivirus installed. I never knew what type it was just the symptoms of it. But before i could close firefox my whole computer was changed in less than a minute. It was pretty brutal. It disabled services/windows firewall/windows antivirus program. Hijacked every browser i had, and would not let me visit websites.

The worst part is it replaced MS antivirus program with its own version that looks exactly like it, except for the part it told me i had to purchase it to remove the "virus" which was its own. Lots of other things it did, it basicly locked down the computer till you "paid" for its version of software because it just spammed the screen with false positives.

Lucky i have windows home server and saved my ass.
 

razel

Platinum Member
May 14, 2002
2,337
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101
Ignore the FUD about prematurely aging SSDs. I'm sure the same people who recommend not to use standby or hibernate don't fully understand it or even use it. If you standby without hibernation (win7 calls it hybrid sleep) you can sleep your system and have it back up within a second. As for the fan cleaning, it's been about 9 years since I encountered a desktop that doesn't shut it's fans off when sleeping.
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
2
81
I have had viruses in the past that rendered my disk inoperable till re-format, so I lost data and take it seriously.

If you don't have backups of your data, obviously you don't take it seriously enough.

On another note : you are being paranoid about all those security applications.

:sneaky: I was thinking that too. It's like checking under your bed for intruders a few times a day even though all your doors are bolted and windows boarded up.

I do have 8gb of ram and leave the computer on most of the day. I shut it off at night, to save power, fan cleaning, and I heard NOT to use standby or hibernate on SSDs, they write all your 8gb of memory and pre-maturely age the SSD.

Most systems use same amount of power in standby as when off - or within 1 watt or so.

To keep it from writing extra to the disk, just disable Hybrid Sleep. Of course you'll want to save all your data before sleeping the computer.

I have not got a virus in over 10 years, but yesterday was a first. Someone had a post on reddit and for some reason his link was infected and with a faster internet connection you are basically toast even with antivirus installed. I never knew what type it was just the symptoms of it. But before i could close firefox my whole computer was changed in less than a minute. It was pretty brutal. It disabled services/windows firewall/windows antivirus program. Hijacked every browser i had, and would not let me visit websites.

The worst part is it replaced MS antivirus program with its own version that looks exactly like it, except for the part it told me i had to purchase it to remove the "virus" which was its own. Lots of other things it did, it basicly locked down the computer till you "paid" for its version of software because it just spammed the screen with false positives.

LOL, Antivirus 2011 or whatever the latest version is called. Those guys rake in HUGE amounts of money through that scam. Even if you pay, those messages don't go away. Seriously those guys should be tracked down (they take credit cards after all - surely a money trail can be followed) and put out of business.

You need to keep stuff updated. I got infected like that once. Was using a notebook computer that hadn't been used for about a year. Hitting some tech web sites and one of them had an ad (not hosted there, typically through an ad service) that auto loaded an infected PDF file. Guess what? Since the notebook had not been used, Adobe Reader wasn't updated so it got through that way. If I had kept it updated, would have never happened.
 

bulanula

Member
Apr 20, 2011
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LOL, Antivirus 2011 or whatever the latest version is called. Those guys rake in HUGE amounts of money through that scam. Even if you pay, those messages don't go away. Seriously those guys should be tracked down (they take credit cards after all - surely a money trail can be followed) and put out of business.

Well I have seen it happen to a couple of computer illiterate people that I know. They idiotically paid for the "antivirus". Just how dumb can people get these days ! On the other hand hats off to the designers of that software because they have a good business model. If people are dumb enough to 1) use Winblow$ 2) get viruses and 3) pay for "antivirus" then I believe they should be scammed as they are asking for it.

Same with those Nigerian bastards. If they can convince dumb Westerners to hand over thousands then hats off to them as they are the ultimate social engineers and the dumb people who fork over the money deserve a diploma in stupidity.

Running Windows 2000 SP4 with updates disabled and no antivirus + common sense and Firefox not IE = no viruses ( self tested this setup ).

Or just run Linux for ultimate peace of mind.
 

hotstocks

Member
Jun 20, 2008
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Now corsair is claiming they are coming out with 85000 iops. Will it really matter?
I predict exact same performance as Vertex 3
 

kmmatney

Diamond Member
Jun 19, 2000
4,363
1
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Well I have seen it happen to a couple of computer illiterate people that I know. They idiotically paid for the "antivirus". Just how dumb can people get these days ! On the other hand hats off to the designers of that software because they have a good business model. If people are dumb enough to 1) use Winblow$ 2) get viruses and 3) pay for "antivirus" then I believe they should be scammed as they are asking for it.

My wife's laptop got the fake "antivirus" virus as well. To get rid of it, you have to boot to CD-ROM using either a Kaspersky boot CD or a Malware Bytes boot CD. A bit of a pain, but nothing to be paranoid about. She was (and is) still running Microsoft Security Essentials, so the virus got past that.
 

nanaki333

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2002
3,772
13
81
My wife's laptop got the fake "antivirus" virus as well. To get rid of it, you have to boot to CD-ROM using either a Kaspersky boot CD or a Malware Bytes boot CD. A bit of a pain, but nothing to be paranoid about. She was (and is) still running Microsoft Security Essentials, so the virus got past that.

i've had to clean that for a few friends. i just boot in to safe mode and run malware bytes and it gets rid of it. no need for any boot discs.
 

996GT2

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2005
5,212
0
76
I do have 8gb of ram and leave the computer on most of the day. I shut it off at night, to save power, fan cleaning, and I heard NOT to use standby or hibernate on SSDs, they write all your 8gb of memory and pre-maturely age the SSD.
On the other note, I am not paranoid, but do believe in weekly virus scans, disk cleaning garbage files, and backup. I will never switch to Linux or Apple because there are less viruses, I love windows 7. But I am starting to use Firefox 4 now and can't wait for Firefox 5, probably can get rid of IE altogether then.

Ok let's do some basic math here.

Assume you put your computer in standby twice a day and that your typical workload writes about 20 GB to the disk a day (which is high even for a power user). So that's 36GB/day.

Your dive is 240GB, and 25nm NAND is rated for 3000 write cycles. If you are writing 36GB a day to the SSD, that means you'll be using about 1 full write cycle every 6 days, assuming the drive does its job with wear leveling.

6 days*3000=approximately 49 years.

Even if you assume a much worse scenario with heavier use, mediocre wear-leveling, etc, your SSD will still easily make it 10 years with a heavy workload every day. So really it's not something to worry about.
 

imaheadcase

Diamond Member
May 9, 2005
3,850
7
76
If you don't have backups of your data, obviously you don't take it seriously enough.







LOL, Antivirus 2011 or whatever the latest version is called. Those guys rake in HUGE amounts of money through that scam. Even if you pay, those messages don't go away. Seriously those guys should be tracked down (they take credit cards after all - surely a money trail can be followed) and put out of business.

You need to keep stuff updated. I got infected like that once. Was using a notebook computer that hadn't been used for about a year. Hitting some tech web sites and one of them had an ad (not hosted there, typically through an ad service) that auto loaded an infected PDF file. Guess what? Since the notebook had not been used, Adobe Reader wasn't updated so it got through that way. If I had kept it updated, would have never happened.

I had everything up to day, its just the nature of the way it installed is what is slick. Its easy to get rid of because i had mirror images on windows home server. Just annoying how easy it installed. I did not even get a warning or anything, java applet came on, then off in a split second and it was done. lol

The ironic part is it disabled microsoft anti-malware stuff to, even though it's live scanner did not detect it anyways. :p
 

nanaki333

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2002
3,772
13
81
i wanna see reviews about the new solid 3 with only 20,000 IOPs and how much that affects home users.
 

bulanula

Member
Apr 20, 2011
76
0
0
i wanna see reviews about the new solid 3 with only 20,000 IOPs and how much that affects home users.

It does not affect home users at all. The IOPS number is all about how long your ePeen is. Even 1000 IOPS should be more than enough etc. considering HDD does about double digits figure etc.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,306
10,028
126
My wife's laptop got the fake "antivirus" virus as well. To get rid of it, you have to boot to CD-ROM using either a Kaspersky boot CD or a Malware Bytes boot CD. A bit of a pain, but nothing to be paranoid about. She was (and is) still running Microsoft Security Essentials, so the virus got past that.

They make a MalwareBytes boot CD now???
 

alaricljs

Golden Member
May 11, 2005
1,221
1
76
Assume you put your computer in standby

Can I just reiterate here that standby writes nothing to the OS disk. It simply halts the CPU and tells the mobo to use standby power to keep the RAM refreshed.

Hybrid sleep uses standby and saves a hibernation file just in case.
Hibernate... well, should be obvious.
 

996GT2

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2005
5,212
0
76
Can I just reiterate here that standby writes nothing to the OS disk. It simply halts the CPU and tells the mobo to use standby power to keep the RAM refreshed.

Hybrid sleep uses standby and saves a hibernation file just in case.
Hibernate... well, should be obvious.

Yeah, I mean hibernation. I usually use the term "sleep" to mean S3
 

Chaoticlusts

Member
Jul 25, 2010
162
7
81
there finally seems to be some actual reviews around for these drives for anyone interested..unfortunately it's for the 240gb version only but still

http://www.storagereview.com/ocz_vertex_3_max_iops_ssd_review_240gb

and

http://thessdreview.com/our-reviews/ocz-vertex-3-240gb-max-iops-review/

like has been stated in this thread and numerous others over and over there will be no real world difference between the two in a home environment however given the tiny price difference atm I'd say the extra reliability would be worth it (I mean come on it's like $10-$20 atm yeah?) so if your looking to buy one completely ignore any speed difference listed it means nothing just think of longevity ^_^

Though I've heard speculation that the 120gb max iops would suffer less speed loss compared to the 240gb than the standard edition...but that's just speculation and even if true is probably only noticeable in benchmarks anyway so again...reliability if your happy with the listed reliability of the 2xnand don't bother if you would like the peace of mind it's not much of a price difference
 

secretanchitman

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
9,352
21
91
there finally seems to be some actual reviews around for these drives for anyone interested..unfortunately it's for the 240gb version only but still

http://www.storagereview.com/ocz_vertex_3_max_iops_ssd_review_240gb

and

http://thessdreview.com/our-reviews/ocz-vertex-3-240gb-max-iops-review/

like has been stated in this thread and numerous others over and over there will be no real world difference between the two in a home environment however given the tiny price difference atm I'd say the extra reliability would be worth it (I mean come on it's like $10-$20 atm yeah?) so if your looking to buy one completely ignore any speed difference listed it means nothing just think of longevity ^_^

Though I've heard speculation that the 120gb max iops would suffer less speed loss compared to the 240gb than the standard edition...but that's just speculation and even if true is probably only noticeable in benchmarks anyway so again...reliability if your happy with the listed reliability of the 2xnand don't bother if you would like the peace of mind it's not much of a price difference

exactly the reasons why i bought the 240GB max iops and not the standard 240GB - the price was $20 more, but for a more reliable ssd? ill take it! blah, amazon says it'll ship in 1-2 months, but i think i can survive! :eek: