This whole generation has been about castrated dies. First Titan, then 780 now this debacle. I really am peeved by the greed these companies have
They're out to make a buck mate...they will sell us what they can get away with selling.
Plus, I don't think the fab tech slow down is helping matters when it comes to new cards.
I wonder why they didn't release this during the mining boom? They could have named their price then.
Quote
AMD already have its next gen high end part ready.They have had for a while.
They also have a full fat Hawaii XT up there sleeves this being said Nvidia will not be able to do there milking of the consumer as they so often have.
People don't hear what is being said, he above states { AMD already have its next gen high end part ready.}
This does not mean that AMD are going to give you a full chip in the next card, it means the next gen is ready to go but they also have a full chip up there sleeve as well for the future.
You have to hear what is being said not just read it!
To see is not to hear, but to hear first is to turn and see far more grass hopper!
AMD already have its next gen high end part ready.They have had for a while.
They also have a full fat Hawaii XT up there sleeves this being said Nvidia will not be able to do there milking of the consumer as they so often have.
People don't hear what is being said, he above states { AMD already have its next gen high end part ready.}
This does not mean that AMD are going to give you a full chip in the next card, it means the next gen is ready to go but they also have a full chip up there sleeve as well for the future.
You have to hear what is being said not just read it!
To see is not to hear, but to hear first is to turn and see far more grass hopper!
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so aggravated by this that I'm considering selling both my 290x Lightning and 295x2. I hate feeling cheated and that's exactly how I feel. It's not about the measly few percent of performance that a full chip would have over my current cards, it's about holding back to get enthusiasts (suckers) to buy over and over again.
It would be different if there wasn't deceit involved. I bought a Titan knowing there would be a full chip to come but at least the information was out there.
It would be different if there wasn't deceit involved. I bought a Titan knowing there would be a full chip to come but at least the information was out there.
This is exactly what I am feeling.
Fellow 290X Lightning owner here too.
I bought the Lightning thinking it was going to be AMD's best this generation.
I feel cheated & angry.
Isn't this still just a rumor at this point? I'd keep the pitchforks put away for now, until clarification of everything.
RaistlinZ
Diamond Member
- Oct 15, 2001
- 7,470
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This is exactly what I am feeling.
Fellow 290X Lightning owner here too.
I bought the Lightning thinking it was going to be AMD's best this generation.
I feel cheated & angry.
What difference does it make if it's the best of this generation as long as it gives you the performance you need? AMD never made any promises about anything.
rumor? sure... but this rumor is reoccurring and getting harder to dismiss each time.
I don't doubt 8Pack's credibility.
If he has said there is something more to Hawaii, then there most probably is.
Maybe exactly not more shaders.
But there will be something.
Dude's already running X99 for God's sake.
He knows his s***.
I can't speak for anyone else but I will talk about myself.
The card has more than enough Gaming performance for me.
But I didn't buy a lightning to play games, I bought it to Bench.
I am trying to get into Hwbot benching.
For tgat you need powerful cards.
No doubt you can have the fastest 770 on the Block & get points for that.
But I wanted to compete for top place on the Benchs, not in just my card category.
As a student, I don't have the money lying around to get every new card that comes out.
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Do you support this type of die harvesting? It's one thing to start at the top and release downward with stuff disabled but to release at the top and keep re-releasing the top? It's just slimey.
Amd watched nvidia do it with great success and is just following suit.
I say put your best foot forward.
yeah... I'll still take Dave Baumann's word over some 6-pack dude
we'll see who's right
People can be wrong or speaking without having the proper facts.
yeah... I'll still take Dave Baumann's word over some 6-pack dude
we'll see who's right
While I am not saying that 8Pack can't be wrong.
He is not just some regular Forum Junkie.
http://hwbot.org/user/8_pack/
This is a guy, Companies pay to come & OC their cards to set World Records at Trade Shows & such.
Don't be ignorant.
Know who you are talking about.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
- 19,458
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There have been plenty of instances where both NV and ATI/AMD released "flagship" cards, only to replace them with something much better/faster/cheaper, and often with double the VRAM:
GeForce 3 Ti 500 32-64MB (Oct 1, 2001) ---> GeForce 4 Ti 4600 128MB (Feb 6, 2002): 4 months
FX5800 Ultra 128MB (Jan 27, 2003) ---> FX5900 Ultra 256MB (May 12, 2013): 3.5 months!
7800GTX 512MB (November 14, 2005) ---> 7900 GTX (March 9, 2006): 4 months
In only 7 months, ATI nearly doubled the performance of 9800XT with the X800XT PE!
In less than 4 months, ATI tripled the number of pixel shading power by going from X1800XT to X1900XTX.
Let's not forget that in less than 6 months, AMD went from HD4890 to a much faster HD5870!
I am sure there are plenty of other examples. In comparison, R9 290X came out October 24, 2013 and by June 24, 2014, there is still no single GPU faster from AMD. Even if 295X / 290XTX comes out, it won't be faster by more than 15%, which in the historical context above is "nothing" compared to what we experienced in terms of performance leaps and price drops. NV chopped off $150 off GTX280's and 780's prices within 1 month of AMD's competing cards.
That's just conjecture. Lots of people on our and other forums purchased Titan thinking it would be NV's flagship for a while, especially given its $1K price tag. Not many people thought that in just 3 months NV would launch a $650 780.
Imagine buying Titan for $1000 February 2013 and then right now on EBay people are buying R9 290s for $250-300 with similar performance. That's just how the GPU market works sometimes. It's very punishing to the wallet. The people who will buy a $600+ R9 290XTX or 780Ti today will also feel regret when 880 beats them both in 6 months from now.
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RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
- 19,458
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- 126
yeah... I'll still take Dave Baumann's word over some 6-pack dude
we'll see who's right
He only said R9 290X is a full chip.
R9 290X has a codename Hawaii (XT).
There could just be a new chip called Hawaii XTX with a different codename and a die size of 450-460mm2 that comes bundle with an AIO, and it wouldn't contradict his comment.
That's what I think. A lot of people have other criteria - for example they will only upgrade once AMD/NV release a chip 50%, 75%, 100% faster than what they have (it's different for everyone). Others will upgrade when their favourite franchise/game of choice runs poorly (BF4, Witcher 3, etc.). If one just chases the best every generation, you'd have to wait until the very end of that generation (780Ti/R9 290XTX) and then you'll still get burned by the 880, or you constantly have to upgrade which is often way too costly. You just can't win no matter what you do. One strategy is to buy 2nd best and OC it (470 vs. 480, 570 vs. 580, 6950 unlocked vs. 6970, 7950 OC vs. 7970, 780 OC vs. 780Ti). This nets one 85-90% of the flagship performance for a much lower price of entry, but you don't get any e-peen bragging rights
.Another strategy is to buy slightly older "gen" cards (for example EVGA GTX480 was selling for $175-225 on Newegg when the barely faster 580 was going for $400+). Arguably the best way to minimize costs is to combine some of the strategies: Buy 2nd best, or slightly older gen and resell it when the next gen is no longer the "it" thing. In 1.5 years after $500 GTX580 came out, HD7870 delivered similar or even faster performance for just $200! Or for example, one could have purchased an HD6950 unlocked, then waited until HD7970 Ghz editions dropped to about $280 which happened less than 1.5 years after their launch! The sacrifice here is you are always about 1 generation behind and nowhere near flagship performance but you save a lot of $$$.
One other strategy that's popular among enthusiasts is buy 2nd best or 2 best cards in SLI and resell them in 2 years once something 50-75% faster is out. In this case:
Step #1: You just got into PC gaming --> Buy 780Ti in SLI for $1300.
Step #2: When GM210 comes out, buy 2 of those for $1300, resell your old cards for 50% of their value.
Net cost of ownership for the first upgrade will be $1300 + $1300 - $650 = $1,950 but then,
Step #3: When Volta comes out, buy 2 of those for $1,300 resell your Maxwell flagships for 50% of their value.
Net cost of ownership for the 2nd upgrade will be $1,300 - $650 = $650.
Now if you keep repeating Step #3, you end up spending about $650 on flagship GPUs every 2 years - not too bad for the high-end enthusiasts. This strategy is maximized imo if you buy 2nd best and OC (780 OC SLI or R9 290 CF OC).
If someone wants the best all the time, throw value and savings out the window.
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RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
- 19,458
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Moving from Sept 2009 HD5870 to October 2013 R9 290X OC over a period of 4 years resulted in a performance increase of 2.95X.
Moving from September 2009 HD5870 to January 2012 HD7970 OC gave a 2.29X increase in just 2 years and 4 months.
Moving from January 2012 HD7970 OC to October 2014 R9 290X OC is barely 30-35% increase.
http://www.computerbase.de/2013-12/grafikkarten-2013-vergleich/10/
It all comes down where one is in their upgrade path. For me personally, R9 290X and 780Ti don't make any sense at all since I upgraded from HD6950 OC to 7970 OC and the increase is 75-90%. I am waiting until something is 75%+ faster than HD7970 OC. Even when R9 290XTX comes out, it's still not good enough. If R9 290XTX is just 10-15% faster than R9 290X, if anything R9 290X users should be happy that they got 8+ months of 90% of that card's performance with minimal movement in the GPU sector. :biggrin:
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For me it's not about a faster part coming out. I welcome a newer and faster sku as long as it is a different chip and not a just a fully unlocked chip of we have had available for considerable time. Amd has never done that in the past and even has been quoted saying that the Hawaii cards we have are a complete chip.
I still find it funny how people complain about how they bought what they thought was the best, and then something else comes along and its better, so they get mad.
If you buy a card, not for what it can do, but for the status it brings, then get over it when something better comes out. If you decry it as greed, then I decry your act just as stupid. I dont see how anyone at this point could be shocked that their luxury status card will be out done in a short window.
If you buy a card, not for what it can do, but for the status it brings, then get over it when something better comes out. If you decry it as greed, then I decry your act just as stupid. I dont see how anyone at this point could be shocked that their luxury status card will be out done in a short window.
Fastx
Senior member
- Dec 18, 2008
- 780
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I bought a 7970 in July of 2012 for $370. It's depressing how little things have advanced since then, but at least it was a great buy. Those who got a 7970 early on have lucked out.
These two statements can not both be true without some extreme twisting and reaching:
- Dave Baumann:
- 8 pack:
Nvidia does this regularly with their xx0 and xx4 parts, disabling parts of chip at first and re-enabling them later to ensure smoother chip yields.
AMD does not.
Anyone remembers "full" Tahiti with 2304 cores? How about Tenerife?
Entirely new chip? Yes possible ofc. But that is something entirely different, and this is not what 8pack is saying.
Lets not start reaching quite yet
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