Octodad on PS4 uses hardware PhysX?

[Red Hawk]

I was playing the demo for Octodad on PS4 in Gamestop earlier today, and I saw something interesting on the intro screen -- the PhysX logo.

Now it's important to differentiate between CPU PhysX and GPU accelerated PhysX. CPU PhysX is hardware-agnostic on PC and has been a competitor to the Havok CPU physics engine on both PC and consoles for years. GPU accelerated PhysX has only run on PCs with Nvidia graphics chips and is touted as a graphics feature wherever it shows up.

My question is, if they're going to the extent of putting the PhysX logo at the start of the game, does Octodad's PhysX implementation go beyond CPU physics all the way to GPU acceleration? The PS4 would appear to have the compute muscle to try a little GPU acceleration of PhysX, but as we all probably know, it's an AMD GPU inside the PS4. But with programmers having more direct access to that GPU than on PC, could it be that the developer Young Horses Inc. and Nvidia have figured out how to make GPU accelerated PhysX work?

 

[Silverforce11]

No. It would require AMD to license GPU PhysX and that hasn't happened.

 

[Gloomy]

I'm pretty sure Nvidia allows GPU physx to run on consoles. Don't recall exactly where I picked up that info-- I think it was in the recent Nvidia stream.

 

[bystander36]

GPU PhysX currently require Cuda, and AMD doesn't have Cuda. It's likely just running on the CPU like they do on current console games.

 

[bystander36]

With a quick search, I found this:
http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/nvidia_physx_and_apex_support_announced_for_sony_ps4.html

NVIDIA PhysX and APEX technologies are designed to run on a variety of CPU architectures and can be accelerated by any CUDA® architecture-enabled NVIDIA GPU, GeForce 8-series or higher.

 

[blackened23]

Physx can be used for an actual in game physics engine or GPU accelerated phsyx effects. Any hardware including the xbox 360, ps3, ps4, xb1 can use the former - they can all use nvidia PHYSX as a physics engine. Note that this DOES NOT provide hardware accelerated physx effects, though.

One game that comes to mind as an example is Dragon Age: Origins. It uses physx for the actual physics engine for collision detection and what not. But does not have physx graphical effects. There are a lot of games under this category of using physx with no gpu accelerated effects.

 

[Carfax83]

No. It would require AMD to license GPU PhysX and that hasn't happened.

What does AMD have to do with the consoles other than hardware?

NVidia is porting PhysX Flex to DirectCompute, so any console developer that wants to take advantage of it will be able to, if they license it.

I'm betting that the Witcher 3 will have hardware accelerated PhysX on the PS4 and Xbox One courtesy of DirectCompute.

 

[f1sherman]

We originally picked PhysX because it supported softbody mesh whereas Havok did not. For Dadliest Catch, we decided not to use softbody anymore because it didn’t look as cool as we thought it would. We stuck with PhysX, though, because we learned a lot how it works and saw that it was supporting all the platforms we had planned to develop for.

Why not alternatives?

We originally looked at other alternatives, including using Ogre or Havok, or XNA, and more complete solutions like Unity or UDK. We went with the previous solutions in order to guarantee that we had the control needed in order to make the game we wanted. Since there is a lot of complex interaction with Octodad as a ragdoll character, we didn’t want to risk getting stuck with a problem we could not solve. We also picked technologies so that we could make the game for PC/Mac/Linux and more.

http://www.octodadgame.com/tag/physx/

 

[blastingcap]

Didn't someone get PhysX working on a Radeon but quickly had that yanked for legal reasons?

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-ati-physx,5841.html

 

[Silverforce11]

What does AMD have to do with the consoles other than hardware?

NVidia is porting PhysX Flex to DirectCompute, so any console developer that wants to take advantage of it will be able to, if they license it.

I'm betting that the Witcher 3 will have hardware accelerated PhysX on the PS4 and Xbox One courtesy of DirectCompute.

Talk when you see it, until then, its just CPU Physx like its always been in many games. Call me when consoles get physx fluff thanks to directcompute.

 

[f1sherman]

Didn't someone get PhysX working on a Radeon but quickly had that yanked for legal reasons?

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-ati-physx,5841.html

Sounds like AMD's Roy Taylor killed it

 

[blastingcap]

Sounds like AMD's Roy Taylor killed it

Do you have a cite? Btw, Roy Taylor was with NVIDIA at the time that the guy hacked PhysX to run on Radeons (2008). Taylor now works for AMD and has been badmouthing CUDA and PhysX lately: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multim...idia_Executive_CUDA_and_PhysX_Are_Doomed.html

That said, the hacker said that NV was willing to help him, but AMD was not. So I guess AMD refused to help the hacker run PhysX on Radeons and the project died? http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/cuda_running_a_radeon

 

[f1sherman]

I know I know
Meanwhile CUDA went to IBM, Amazon and powers something like 85% of Green Supercomputers.

Also it sound like these guys chose PhysX precisely because of large hw compatibility list, something that that famous Kantor's article badmouthed PhysX for (X87).

Not that I applaud Nvidia for its PhysX efforts, far from it.

 

[bystander36]

I know I know
Meanwhile CUDA went to IBM, Amazon and powers something like 85% of Green Supercomputers.

Also it sound like these guys chose PhysX precisely because of large hw compatibility list, something that that famous Kantor's article badmouthed PhysX for (X87).

Not that I applaud Nvidia for its PhysX efforts, far from it.

While GPU accelerated PhysX is very limited on what hardware it can run on, the CPU physics aspects supports a lot of hardware. It is the physics that PhysX can do that is what interests most dev's.

 

[Wall Street]

That said, the hacker said that NV was willing to help him, but AMD was not. So I guess AMD refused to help the hacker run PhysX on Radeons and the project died? http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/cuda_running_a_radeon

You have to keep in mind that nVidia could help him because they own the rights to PhysX. If AMD helped them, it would be lawsuit time, which is my guess as to why AMD would not be willing to do that.

 

[blastingcap]

You have to keep in mind that nVidia could help him because they own the rights to PhysX. If AMD helped them, it would be lawsuit time, which is my guess as to why AMD would not be willing to do that.

OK but my point is that PS4/XBO hardware may be capable of hardware physx, and if Sony/MSFT get a license from NV, it may be possible to run GPU-accelerated PhysX on consoles.

 

[Wall Street]

OK but my point is that PS4/XBO hardware may be capable of hardware physx, and if Sony/MSFT get a license from NV, it may be possible to run GPU-accelerated PhysX on consoles.

Yeah. PhysX is just a shader program so it could definitely work on any GPU hardware. I wonder what incentive nVidia would have to do this, because I don't think that there aspiration is really to become a middleware software company but rather to sell more hardware.

 

[bystander36]

OK but my point is that PS4/XBO hardware may be capable of hardware physx, and if Sony/MSFT get a license from NV, it may be possible to run GPU-accelerated PhysX on consoles.

Currently, GPU accelerated PhysX requires CUDA hardware.

I linked you the report about PS4 supporting PhysX, and it clearly stated that PhysX works on all kinds of hardware, but GPU accelerated PhysX ONLY works on CUDA enabled GPU's and lists which ones.

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/nvidia_physx_and_apex_support_announced_for_sony_ps4.html

 

[Reticula]

does Octodad's PhysX implementation go beyond CPU physics all the way to GPU acceleration?

To accelerate physics interactions of what kind? There is no advanced cloth, or particles, or turbulence fields in Octodad, afaik.

f they're going to the extent of putting the PhysX logo at the start of the game

Typical requirement for a middleware.

And the whole situation with GPU PhysX on consoles is, afaik - CPU only now, probably GPU accelerated someday later, judging by how NVIDIA is porting some stuff to DXCompute (FLEX, Hair/Fur Tech)

Didn't someone get PhysX working on a Radeon but quickly had that yanked for legal reasons?

If it was not a bogus to get attention to NGOHQ website.
That Badit guy has never showed any proof besides one screenshot, and never anyone was able to replicate his "success".
Even all the Hybrid PhysX stuff requires separate NVIDIA GPU to work alonside with AMD.

-----
Zogrim
PhysXInfo.com

 

[blackened23]

Again, PHYSX does not have a requirement for GPU accelerated (or non accelerated) effects. It can be used as a mere physics engine as well for collision detection and other things.

Hundreds of games use physx for this purpose, even xbox 360 and PS3 titles. So this is nothing new. And yes, as bystander mentioned, using GPU accelerated effects requires CUDA hardware and thus will not be in the next gen consoles.

 

[bystander36]

The reality is, I don't believe there is even a GPU accelerated requirement for any of the effects. Those effects are just more demanding than CPU's can usually handle. A lot of people were able to run all the advanced PhysX stuff on their CPU's in BL2. It just didn't run as well at times.

 

[ShintaiDK]

PS4 supports PhysX and APEX.

http://nvidianews.nvidia.com/Releas...uter-Entertainment-s-PlayStation-R-4-941.aspx

 

[Silverforce11]

PS4 supports PhysX and APEX.

http://nvidianews.nvidia.com/Releas...uter-Entertainment-s-PlayStation-R-4-941.aspx

"NVIDIA PhysX and APEX technologies are designed to run on a variety of CPU architectures and can be accelerated by any CUDA® architecture-enabled NVIDIA GPU, GeForce 8-series or higher."

CPU physx is in a lot of games and on consoles too, why the shock and awe? Really, when it does fancy fluff using the GCN cores to accelerate it, then wake us all up.

 

[FiendishMind]

Currently, GPU accelerated PhysX requires CUDA hardware.

Generally yes, however the PhysX GPU accelerated Dynamic Fur in CoD Ghosts is DirectCompute based and should work on any DX11 hardware, though I have yet to see a solid confirmation of this.

 

[Stuka87]

Currently, GPU accelerated PhysX requires CUDA hardware.

I linked you the report about PS4 supporting PhysX, and it clearly stated that PhysX works on all kinds of hardware, but GPU accelerated PhysX ONLY works on CUDA enabled GPU's and lists which ones.

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/nvidia_physx_and_apex_support_announced_for_sony_ps4.html

This is an artificial limitation though. There is no real reason it could not be run with Direct Compute or OpenCL. There is nothing special about the CUDA API that is required for PhysX to work.

It just happens to be developed for CUDA, and to some extent Direct Compute currently.