OC'ing a P4 2.8

P2Mc28

Member
Jan 29, 2004
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I used to know all about what I should aim for, but it's been too long and I've forgotten.

Should I get some slower RAM with tight timings, or should get something closer to PC-4000? My idea thus far has been 1 gig of PC-3700 Enhanced Bandwidth from OCZ.

My system:

P4 2.8c
LanParty Pro 875 Rev.B
Radeon 9800 Pro
Antec TruPower 480

Also, I've only got air cooling (a nice and noisy Volcano 7+) compimented by 4 case fans, so I can't push it too hard.

And lastly, just to clarify, what timing ratio should I be aiming for? 1:1 would be nice . . . but with whatever RAM I get, what ratio would be best.

I need to get back into these forums, I feel so "out of the loop" ^_^
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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Take a look at memory reviews here at anandtech. the turning point seems to be around 250Mhz. So if you can get some PC 4200 running at 3-4-3 it's faster than 2-2-2 @200. The best solution is get some Samsung TCCD which can do both low latency and super high bandwitdh.. Then you can play around and decide which you like best.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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Oh I forgot about crucial ballistix. that's another one. Better chips than the OCZ you note above. using Micron G instead of C. On sale at newegg right now

Can do 2-2-2@200 and can do up to 275Mhz. It's really the best between 200 and 250 offering lowest timings I think anand was running benchmarks at an incredible 2-3-3 @267

http://www.anandtech.com/memor...oc.aspx?i=2226&p=9
 

P2Mc28

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Jan 29, 2004
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Thanks for the input.

Unfortunately, newegg doesn't seem to have any 2x512 models . . . and I'd really hate to get 4x256's.

Maybe I just missed something, I'll go look around.
 

P2Mc28

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Jan 29, 2004
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Well, I can't find any 2x512 of that Crucial Ballistix the article mentioned, but some OCZ 3200 Gold Rev. 2 looks like it'll do the trick.

Anyone have any ideas as to where my FSB will end up after an average overclock? That'll help me look at reviews for specific clock ranges too. Here's my current thinking (for the love of all that is good, correct my thinking if I'm wrong)

Current setup:
200 FSB x 14 = 2.8 GHz P4
Goal:
24x FSB x 14 = 3.3-3.5 GHz
RAM:
24x FSB = DDR480-500 for 1:1, i.e. best performace


Is this A) logical thinking, and B) feasible for an aircooled P4? Should I scale down to aim for 3.2 GHz and DDR466 instead?

Either way, the RAM I am currently aiming to get in this order is: the Ballistix (if I can find a matched 512 pair of it, no such luck thus far), the OCZ, or the G.Skill if I am to aim for DDR466 rather than 480-500. All from that article posted above. Those are only my current selections, as I deffinately need to look at an INTEL review with those models as well before I make any purchases.
 

WolveBane

Member
Nov 17, 2004
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Try:
Corsair XMS4400

Does the Mobo support DDR2?
If so try:
XMS2 5400
or
XMS2 4300 [lower latency]
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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Originally posted by: P2Mc28
Well, I can't find any 2x512 of that Crucial Ballistix the article mentioned, but some OCZ 3200 Gold Rev. 2 looks like it'll do the trick.

Anyone have any ideas as to where my FSB will end up after an average overclock? That'll help me look at reviews for specific clock ranges too. Here's my current thinking (for the love of all that is good, correct my thinking if I'm wrong)

Current setup:
200 FSB x 14 = 2.8 GHz P4
Goal:
24x FSB x 14 = 3.3-3.5 GHz
RAM:
24x FSB = DDR480-500 for 1:1, i.e. best performace


Is this A) logical thinking, and B) feasible for an aircooled P4? Should I scale down to aim for 3.2 GHz and DDR466 instead?

Either way, the RAM I am currently aiming to get in this order is: the Ballistix (if I can find a matched 512 pair of it, no such luck thus far), the OCZ, or the G.Skill if I am to aim for DDR466 rather than 480-500. All from that article posted above. Those are only my current selections, as I deffinately need to look at an INTEL review with those models as well before I make any purchases.


thats the samsung TCCD I was talking about...very good. I got some but could'nt replicate quite what anand did:(


here's ballistix

http://www.newegg.com/app/View...=20-146-546&depa=0


I think you should get ballistix bacuse you only want 240-250Mhz and ballistix will stay at 2-2-2, 2-3-2 or 2-3-3 all the way up there. Sansung won't.
 

P2Mc28

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Jan 29, 2004
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After looking through some other reviews, I also think I should get the Ballistix. Now I just gotta find a dual channel gig of it! I'm sick of running this old Corsair XMS 512 stick . . . I've had this dual channel motherboard for long enough! Time to take advantage of it.


[EDIT]
Oh no, does Ballistix even come in dual channel? There isn't any on the Crucial website =(
[/EDIT]
 

jiffylube1024

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
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Originally posted by: P2Mc28
After looking through some other reviews, I also think I should get the Ballistix. Now I just gotta find a dual channel gig of it! I'm sick of running this old Corsair XMS 512 stick . . . I've had this dual channel motherboard for long enough! Time to take advantage of it.


[EDIT]
Oh no, does Ballistix even come in dual channel? There isn't any on the Crucial website =(
[/EDIT]

Um, you just buy two sticks of 512MB dude. It's exactly the same as dual channel kits, only they usually charge more for the kits.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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JL is correct. You just buy two sticks. Crucial does'nt play these games charging 10-20% more for packaging two sticks.
 

P2Mc28

Member
Jan 29, 2004
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Really? Cool.

I've never noticed a price hike from buying 2x512 vs 1x512 + 1x512. I always thought it was cheaper with them packaged together.
 

CheesePoofs

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2004
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just buy two sticks of the ballistix ram, its the same as getting a matched pair except they are not guarenteed to work together. However, only in a few cases will you find two sticks that won't work together.
BTW: dual channel means that you have two lanes of data transfer going to the ram from the memory controller, and all you need to use it is two sticks of ram, matched or non-matched, it doesn't even matter if they are the same ram, although that is better.

Edit: my bad, i forgot to refresh the page before i posted to check if someone had already said this.
 

P2Mc28

Member
Jan 29, 2004
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Thanks for the input everyone. I gotta come back here more often. I registered here almost a year ago and haven't even gotten to 20 posts yet ;)
 

jiffylube1024

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
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Originally posted by: CheesePoofs
just buy two sticks of the ballistix ram, its the same as getting a matched pair except they are not guarenteed to work together. However, only in a few cases will you find two sticks that won't work together.
BTW: dual channel means that you have two lanes of data transfer going to the ram from the memory controller, and all you need to use it is two sticks of ram, matched or non-matched, it doesn't even matter if they are the same ram, although that is better.

Edit: my bad, i forgot to refresh the page before i posted to check if someone had already said this.

^ Total FUD. Right now I'm running 2x 2-3-2-5 512MB PC3200 Kingston HyperX sticks with 2x 2-4-4-7 512MB Geil PC3200 sticks for 2GB total (obviously at the slower speed of 2-4-4-7) and I'm 100% stable on my 2.8C @ 3.3 Ghz. I'm only running this absurd RAM combination until Christmas when I get some free time, then I'm selling one of the pairs.


The only time DDR RAM sticks will not work together in dual channel is if you are using dissimilar spec'ed RAM and trying to run it at the timings/speed of the better one. I, for example, obviously can't get my Geil memory anywhere near 2-3-2 so I'm limited by those sticks and forced to run all of my RAM at the slower speed. But two sticks of any kind of similar memory will work together, anyone who says they won't doesn't know what they are talking about.

Yes, the sticks may have different overclock potentials (one may his 260 MHz at 2-2-2 while one may only hit 255 or require a bit more voltage to do so), but this type of variation is common even to similar-batched chips.

DDR dual channel kits exist for two reasons: to give noobs peace of mind and to (frequently) charge a minor price premium, typically 5-10%.


That's a great deal on the Ballistix by the way! I just paid in that neighborhood for two sticks of 2-3-2 KHX PC3200 that isn't in the same league as the Ballistix stuff; ~215 MHz is all these chips can handle. The new EL 2-2-2 KHX RAM (which uses TCCD chips) is also significantly more expensive, the last I checked.

Edit: even the KHX 3200 EL has come down; it's only $140 now (the Ballistix is still as good/better for cheaper though).
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
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This is for comparison purposes -- I thought a couple weeks ago I almost got "flamed" because people thought I was thumping my chest.

There is nothing extraordinary in my over-clocking, because I followed the reviews and settled for what seemed like a sure thing. Some people are picking low-latency PC3500 and pushing it past its spec, and I suppose this works. Also, I do not discount the posts that have appeared above.

What I did was to just find the best price at the time for some OCZ EL Gold PC4000's -- the 1 GB kit. Whatever memory I used, my objective was to socket 1 GB -- not 2 GB or 512 MB -- but 1 GB to avoid bottlenecks in video processing.

Initially, I chose a 2.4C P-4 to match with this, because (for at least the 30-cap batches) the over-clocking potential was phenomenal according to various reports. Certainly, I heeded THG in their January '04 review on the OCZ's, to save time and trouble -- and especially, dollars.

I found with the 2.4C, even with a 25% over-clocking to 3.0 Ghz and the memory running right at its DDR500 spec and stock latencies, the processor temperature actually would lag behind the motherboard temperature by 2F or about 1C at idle!! Thinking that this may have been an error of the sensors, I had another thermal sensor taped close to the processor, and indeed the front-panel monitor reported temperatures that were in the neighborhood of the internal value.

I considered going up to a 2.8C, thinking that if the cooling profile was similar to the 2.4, I could get an over-clock easily to 3.47 Ghz. But I am in the habit of buying "retail" despite any over-clocking potentially voiding the warranty anyway -- couldn't find a retail box, and read some user/buyer reviews on the 3.0C.

With memory timings still at stock 2.5, 4, 4, 7, running at DDR500 (1:1), very slight voltage adjustments all within the warrantied spec for the components, I was able to get my OC up just a tad more to DDR506 -- with the processor running at 3.808 Ghz, no errors on MEMTEST86 running for hours, and stable configuration under the stress tests I ran. I benchmarked with PCMark04 (FX5950 Ultra video card) at about 5,760 -- I think that was right -- within 200 points out of 6,000 of matching Intel's own PCMark04 run against the new 3.8E CPU posted at their web-site. That's the 570J Prescott with 1 MB L2 cache.

If you plan to use a Northwood with the 512K cache, it pays to use faster memory and run it to spec or above spec in stable configuration. With the lower L2 cache, faster memory pays off with performance gains, even with slower timings. Some tech-news-reviews on OCZ attempts to explain how they focused their approach to latencies in a manner different from the prevailing assumptions in the industry -- one of which was that CAS latency was an important measure of speed, and their design instead paid more attention to RCD, RAS Precharge and Precharge Delay. Apparently they have done something about optimizing bandwidth even under looser timings.

This does not preclude advantages to be had from other memory models and manufactures touted in posts previous to this one.

With the CPU drawn from the right batch, and that would be the so-called 30-cap processor, and depending on the mobo and cooling solution, you would hope that the difference between a 20% OC and a 25 or 26% OC makes a difference of from 2 to 4F in your idle and load temperature values, but that could just be the luck of the draw. I'm currently running PRIME95 at a room temperature of 70F, and the load temperature values don't go over 105F or 41C with all fans turned down to 2,000 rpm or lower with the exception of the CPU fan on the XP120 heatpipe cooler.

For motherboards that allow VDIMM voltage increases above 2.85V (and mine -- a P4P800 -- doesn't), you can push the OCZ modules to 3.0V without voiding their warranty, and probably get to DDR533 or a 1066 Mhz FSB setting, but I don't know what effect this will have on air-cooled temperatures. I can only report what my air-cooled temperatures have been. If your mobo is like mine, it is possible to purchase an OCZ "DDR Booster" which fits in a vacant memory slot, has its own digital voltage readout and adjustment mechanism, and allows the BIOS limitation on voltages to be over-ridden. Nifty little gadget for -- what is it? -- $60?

Good luck with your Northwood processor.
 

sbuckler

Senior member
Aug 11, 2004
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If you've already got a working system but just want to upgrade memory might as well find out how fast the cpu can go, then buy memory to match. Just lower the divider (i.e. run the memory slower at DDR333) and up the front side bus till you find the limit of the processor. Once you know that buy memory to match. Chances are you'll get about 3.2-3.4 gig stable in which case the crucial ballistix DDR400 is fine, however if you get unlucky and it only does 3.0 gig stable then it's not worth it, if you are lucky and it does 3.6+ gig stable then get something faster (ballistix DDR500 would be a good bet).

Oh, as the guy above says it's middle two numbers that matter for memory timings, not the first as many think (CAS), the difference between say 3-2-2-8, and 2-2-2-5 is minimal, but the difference between say 3-4-4-8 and 3-2-2-8 is huge.

If you want to buy crucial, just get it straight from their website - you get a discount for two sticks of ballistix.
 

garkon8

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Oct 5, 2004
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Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
If your mobo is like mine, it is possible to purchase an OCZ "DDR Booster" which fits in a vacant memory slot, has its own digital voltage readout and adjustment mechanism, and allows the BIOS limitation on voltages to be over-ridden. Nifty little gadget for -- what is it? -- $60?

Only $38.00 at Newegg.com