#OccupyWallstreet

[fskimospy]

I believe you. However, that doesn't change the fact that OWS itself is doing little, or nothing, to stop the supposedly fringe whackos from quickly becoming the face of the movement.

That banner is indicative of how most moderates (centrists?) view the movement. If your hope is to being us to your side, then you need to start doing a much better job to clean up and present a unified message -- one that doesn't even HINT at being anti-American in nature.

Good luck with that...

You aren't a moderate.

OWS is doing nothing to stop people from expressing whatever opinion it is that they might want to express, and this is on purpose.

 

[monovillage]

You aren't a moderate.

OWS is doing nothing to stop people from expressing whatever opinion it is that they might want to express, and this is on purpose.

From some stories i've read they have applied pressure to keep people from reporting crimes against them to the police and to the press. I guess that's not classified as an opinion though.

 

[fskimospy]

From some stories i've read they have applied pressure to keep people from reporting crimes against them to the police and to the press. I guess that's not classified as an opinion though.

What a bizarre, unrelated tangent you just tried to start. I appreciate your efforts, but no thanks!

 

[Bowfinger]

I believe you. However, that doesn't change the fact that OWS itself is doing little, or nothing, to stop the supposedly fringe whackos from quickly becoming the face of the movement.

In your opinion, presumably based on the stories you're fed from nutter news sources. I just did a quick check of the mainstream media sites. The fringe is not their focus.

In that way it appears you and Spidey are much alike. You hide in an echo chamber of sources that cherry pick and often outright fabricate stories to tell you what you want to hear (and what they want you to hear). Then you cite such biased sources as proof your alternate reality somehow trumps "real" reality. If you want to know what the vast majority of Americans are seeing about OWS, you need to go to the sources they rely on.

That banner is indicative of how most moderates (centrists?) view the movement.

False. The pro-corruption right wing propaganda machine loves that banner I'm sure. It helps get people like you all worked up. I didn't see it on the three major media sites I just checked.

They did show pictures of the fires in Oakland, however, which is a much greater threat to the OWS image. The OWS core, for lack of a better word, needs to be loud and consistent in denouncing such actions or they will start losing support. (According to a new poll reported on CNN, OWS support is still rising.)

If your hope is to being us to your side, then you need to start doing a much better job to clean up and present a unified message -- one that doesn't even HINT at being anti-American in nature.

Good luck with that...

For the record, being anti-capitalism is not the same as being anti-American, no matter what your corporate masters tell you. That said, it's not a position OWS should be associated with. It is not capitalism per se that's the problem, it's capitalism without effective checks and balances.

 

[PokerGuy]

I'm sure all the violence, burning and looting will do a world of good for the OWS movement 😀

Ultimately it will help speed up the demise of this little anarchist idiocy spree, so that's a good thing.

 

[Bowfinger]

I'm sure all the violence, burning and looting will do a world of good for the OWS movement 😀

Ultimately it will help speed up the demise of this little anarchist idiocy spree, so that's a good thing.

You're pro-corruption then, I take it? Why is it a "good thing" to stop people from speaking out together against pervasive corruption?

 

[monovillage]

You're pro-corruption then, I take it? Why is it a "good thing" to stop people from speaking out together against pervasive corruption?

I've proposed a solid solution to corruption by some politicians in Washington, namely term limits. Term limits are adamantly opposed by those on the left, they'd rather have the same corrupt politicians that have been in office for 30, 40 or over 50 years and are responsible for much of the corruption stay in office. The ones that are "pro-corruption" are the ones that blame a corporation or a company because they followed the law and don't hold the crooked politicians that passed the corrupt laws to account.

 

[airdata]

Weird that this stuff all happens at night when it's harder to video tape everything that's going on.

Things are quiet during the day... Then the police come out at night... what a coincidence.

monovilliage : term limits is an excellent idea. Far too many politicians just set up shop. It's supposed to be a moderate paying, elected office. Why are half of them millionaires?

Why do so many of them end up working in super high paying jobs in the private sector when they leave office?

 

[fskimospy]

I've proposed a solid solution to corruption by some politicians in Washington, namely term limits. Term limits are adamantly opposed by those on the left, they'd rather have the same corrupt politicians that have been in office for 30, 40 or over 50 years and are responsible for much of the corruption stay in office. The ones that are "pro-corruption" are the ones that blame a corporation or a company because they followed the law and don't hold the crooked politicians that passed the corrupt laws to account.

What term limits actually do is increase the power of lobbyists and other interests outside the legislature because of the inexperience, temporary status, and overall lesser performance of the legislature.

Term limits are opposed by people who actually know how government works, not just 'libruls'.

 

[OrByte]

all the usual/expected reactions from the political spectrum.

Bottom line is OWS needs to deal with the angry element within its ranks...we know its there. It isn't going to go away, if anything the movement will descend into angrier (read idiotic) displays of dissent. That being said, there is no way for OWS to do what I just said.

It's going to get ugly.

 

[monovillage]

What term limits actually do is increase the power of lobbyists and other interests outside the legislature because of the inexperience, temporary status, and overall lesser performance of the legislature.

Term limits are opposed by people who actually know how government works, not just 'libruls'.

Then enjoy your long term crooked politicians, they've done such a great job. It's spelled liberal btw, a term i rarely use since it means different things to different people, but everyone pretty much knows what "on the left" means and it isn't an insult.

 

[PokerGuy]

You're pro-corruption then, I take it? Why is it a "good thing" to stop people from speaking out together against pervasive corruption?

No, I'm against corruption, and I'm also against people breaking the law. As far as I'm concerned they can peacefully protest until the end of times, but if they break the law and impact other law abiding citizens they need to be dealt with as criminals. These idiots protesting and causing trouble does nothing to fix any of the real problems. To affect real change, you need to change DC. OWS should really be ODC, that's where the house cleaning needs to be.

 

[fskimospy]

Then enjoy your long term crooked politicians, they've done such a great job. It's spelled liberal btw, a term i rarely use since it means different things to different people, but everyone pretty much knows what "on the left" means and it isn't an insult.

Our legislature is performing poorly, but that's no reason to implement terrible ideas like term limits that would make it worse.

 

[PokerGuy]

What term limits actually do is increase the power of lobbyists and other interests outside the legislature because of the inexperience, temporary status, and overall lesser performance of the legislature.

There are pros and cons. Your points about inexperience and such are valid, but a lack of term limits also creates entrenched interests that become harder and harder to get rid of.

 

[halik]

Weird that this stuff all happens at night when it's harder to video tape everything that's going on.

Things are quiet during the day... Then the police come out at night... what a coincidence.

monovilliage : term limits is an excellent idea. Far too many politicians just set up shop. It's supposed to be a moderate paying, elected office. Why are half of them millionaires?

Why do so many of them end up working in super high paying jobs in the private sector when they leave office?

What are you talking about? There was 3 hours live heli feed of the mob looting a nonprofit office and setting up barricades from dumpsters and what not.

 

[Bowfinger]

I've proposed a solid solution to corruption by some politicians in Washington, namely term limits.

I disagree that term limits are the solution, though I agree they will help somewhat, especially given the current corrupt state of American politics. Unfortunately, as long as we allow effectively unlimited bribery of our elected officials, corruption will remain rampant.

It's all well and good that we force the old crooks out, but the new wannabe crooks will need lots of money to get elected. That money will continue to come from special interests with deep pockets. That means most of the incoming freshmen will be corrupted well before they set foot on the floors of Congress.

Term limits are adamantly opposed by those on the left,

Disagree. It's not a particularly partisan issue. They are plenty of the left who support term limits and plenty on the right who oppose them. There are pluses and minuses to term limits. They are not a silver bullet. Different people weigh those pros and cons differently.

they'd rather have the same corrupt politicians that have been in office for 30, 40 or over 50 years and are responsible for much of the corruption stay in office. The ones that are "pro-corruption" are the ones that blame a corporation or a company because they followed the law and don't hold the crooked politicians that passed the corrupt laws to account.

There's plenty of blame for both. The fact that it's legal doesn't mean it's right. Further, it's legal in great part because those same special interests used their deep pockets to buy laws in their favor. Some of the worst corruption we see is perfectly legal today thanks to this circle of bribery.

 

[spidey07]

What are you talking about? There was 3 hours live heli feed of the mob looting a nonprofit office and setting up barricades from dumpsters and what not.

But, but, but Bowfinger said it was nutter sources that said occupy's goal was to occupy foreclosed or vacant private property?

Gee, they did what they said they were going to do. Why is anybody surprised? They don't believe in private property. Remember one of the main tenants of communism is the abolition of private property. Remember your history folks, understand their motives.

 

[Bowfinger]

all the usual/expected reactions from the political spectrum.

Bottom line is OWS needs to deal with the angry element within its ranks...we know its there. It isn't going to go away, if anything the movement will descend into angrier (read idiotic) displays of dissent. That being said, there is no way for OWS to do what I just said.

It's going to get ugly.

Yes, unfortunately. The report I read about last night's Occupy Oakland violence is that the thousands of protestors who were there most of the day were peaceful. They eventually dispersed leaving (according to police) a group of about 100 that went looking for trouble. Those 100 taint the peaceful thousands.

 

[Bowfinger]

No, I'm against corruption, and I'm also against people breaking the law. As far as I'm concerned they can peacefully protest until the end of times, but if they break the law and impact other law abiding citizens they need to be dealt with as criminals. These idiots protesting and causing trouble does nothing to fix any of the real problems. To affect real change, you need to change DC. OWS should really be ODC, that's where the house cleaning needs to be.

Interesting. Perhaps you should learn to say what you mean then. You initially said you favored the "demise" of the whole OWS movement. Given that the OWS movement is protesting corruption, that seems to make you a corruption supporter. If instead all you really meant was you were opposed to violence, don't make the common nutter error of tarring the whole movement for the actions of a relative few.

 

[spidey07]

Interesting. Perhaps you should learn to say what you mean then. You initially said you favored the "demise" of the whole OWS movement. Given that the OWS movement is protesting corruption, that seems to make you a corruption supporter. If instead all you really meant was you were opposed to violence, don't make the common nutter error of tarring the whole movement for the actions of a relative few.

Yes, yes, all the negative reports are just nutter sources and "isolated incidents".

That just so happen to be happening at the majority of these protests...hmm...

Careful who you bed with liberal, you may get shit on you.

While we're at it, is there some kind of universal dress code for liberal looter? Puma jumpsuit and tennis shoes with a hoodie over the face?

Why did such behavior and people not occur/be at tea party protests?

 

[halik]

But, but, but Bowfinger said it was nutter sources that said occupy's goal was to occupy foreclosed or vacant private property?

Gee, they did what they said they were going to do. Why is anybody surprised? They don't believe in private property. Remember one of the main tenants of communism is the abolition of private property. Remember your history folks, understand their motives.

I posted this last night when i saw it from the heli footage:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=32513390&postcount=228

The looted building belongs to Travelers Aid Society, not vacant
http://maps.google.com/maps/place?q=travelers+aid+oakland&hl=en&cid=5134644588533926785

 

[Bowfinger]

But, but, but Bowfinger said it was nutter sources that said occupy's goal was to occupy foreclosed or vacant private property?

Gee, they did what they said they were going to do. Why is anybody surprised? They don't believe in private property. Remember one of the main tenants of communism is the abolition of private property. Remember your history folks, understand their motives.

Spidey, you're an idiot. It wasn't the main OWS movement that did those things. According to the Oakland PD, there were thousands of protestors in Oakland yesterday, and it was peaceful. (In part that's because the mayor told the PD to behave themselves. That was a big part of the story yesterday you undoubtedly missed because your nutter sources prefer you ignorant and outraged -- the mayor of Oakland expressed her support for OWS, essentially sanctioned peaceful protests, and told her police department to support their peaceful and lawful activities.)

Most (all?) of the violence was later that night, when a band of "about 100" started causing problems after the main group went home (or to their camp, whatever) for the night. That is certainly a problem OWS needs to condemn, and prevent as best they can. It is coming from the OWS fringe, however, and is not something the OWS core supports.

 

[spidey07]

I posted this last night when i saw it from the heli footage:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=32513390&postcount=228

The looted building belongs to Travelers Aid Society, not vacant
http://maps.google.com/maps/place?q=travelers+aid+oakland&hl=en&cid=5134644588533926785

South Park had a great episode last night about the occupiers, complete with hoodlums and violence. It's as if they knew exactly what was going to happen, which of course many people predicted in this thread. They were bound to get violent because it's such a radical far left movement it will draw out the radical far leftists/marxists.

And that's exactly what happened, as predicted.

 

[spidey07]

Spidey, you're an idiot. It wasn't the main OWS movement that did those things. According to the Oakland PD, there were thousands of protestors in Oakland yesterday, and it was peaceful. (In part that's because the mayor told the PD to behave themselves. That was a big part of the story yesterday you undoubtedly missed because your nutter sources prefer you ignorant and outraged -- the mayor of Oakland expressed her support for OWS, essentially sanctioned peaceful protests, and told her police department to support their peaceful and lawful activities.)

Most (all?) of the violence was later that night, when a band of "about 100" started causing problems after the main group went home (or to their camp, whatever) for the night. That is certainly a problem OWS needs to condemn, and prevent as best they can. It is coming from the OWS fringe, however, and is not something the OWS core supports.

Bull fucking shit.

What part of "occupy" don't you understand? They intend to occupy private property. Me thinks you don't pay attention to reality or facts. Do you know what the word occupy means? Have you not heard their chants of "this is OURS!"

Sadly I think you know it's a communist movement but you don't want to be associated with the negative connotation of being a communist.

 

[palehorse]

You aren't a moderate.

OWS is doing nothing to stop people from expressing whatever opinion it is that they might want to express, and this is on purpose.

I am certainly a moderate, or centrist, by any measure; and I'm an independent who has never voted along party lines. Hell, I even voted for our current President! 🙁

I represent exactly the type of person you need to convince to join your efforts. Without folks like me -- those who certainly agree that something is broken in our Goverment, but do not identify with the current "faces" of OWS, or agree with the direction the protests are aimed -- the movement is screwed...