OBL Dead Hoax

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flexy

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
Yesterday i still called people who claimed that the OBL kill operation was fake nutcases and crazy conspiracy theorists.

Then i went on a website AND I HAVE TO ADMIT that the things shown on the site really, really made me think and doubt my own beliefs.

(The site is in German but i have no doubt there are similar sites in English too)

What struck me the most is that this "OBL died already in 2001" web site did actually back up MOST of its statements with real and archived news.

It did not look like some stupid, made-up compilation of crazy theories with no base to stand on.

I try to recap what i read on the site PLUS the supporting "evidence".

Please bear in mind i am NOT a conspiracy nut-case...but if something makes sense and can be backed up by real news reports and politicians statements it REALLY makes you think.

* Core statement was that OBL died already in december 2001, likely due to possibly kidney failure.

Supporting, news reports from pakistan from 2001 (on CNN archive!) which are citing some pakistani sources about the dead of OBL in 2001

* Core statement that OBL actually denied any involvement in 911 (i would need to dig out the news reports and URLs)...but saw two reported where OBL appeared in the public shortly after 911 denying any involvement with the 911 attacks.

* Core statement that OBL was very sick and needed daily dialisis (SP) due to severe kidney disease.

* Last "real" picture of OBL was released in dec 2001 (!) where he appeared already very frail and thin

* Core statement that all subsequent (after dec 2001) "appearances" of OBL in the public were actually fake and the NSA did not have ANY OBL communication intercepted since then.

Most apparent one (staged) public appearance of OBL where its apparent its a totally different person. (I personally even remember having seen this on TV years back).

* Statement that OBL was in a pakistani hospital on 9/11 for kidney dialisis.

* Several citations (all archived on mainstream news site) about how politicians "know he is dead since 2001" etc..etc..

I use GOOGLE TRANSLATE, so bear with me....

http://translate.google.com/transla...om/2007/05/bin-laden-ist-schon-lange-tot.html

Same site:

http://translate.google.com/transla.../2011/05/sie-konnten-die-luge-nicht-mehr.html

What is your opinion on all that?

Am i crazy thinking that some of what they say makes indeed sense?
 
Whoozyerdaddy

Whoozyerdaddy

Lifer
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
flexy said:
Am i crazy thinking that some of what they say makes indeed sense?
Click to expand...

Yes. That's how conspiracy theories work. They ask a lot of interesting questions that lay out an interesting pattern of dots. The human brain wired like it is to search for patterns connects the dots with lines that don't necessarily exist.

It's just human nature... "It would make sense if this dot connected to this other dot..." even though there's no real connection.

Oh... The kidney failure/dialysis thing has been debunked a billion times.
 
DominionSeraph

DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
8,386
32
91
Yes, you're crazy. Finding a double for Bin Laden would be difficult due to his height and the terrorists gain nothing by faking him being alive. They would've been better served by pointing out that he's dead. Afghanistan would probably still be under the Taliban if they had done that.
 
wuliheron

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
Whoozyerdaddy said:
Yes. That's how conspiracy theories work. They ask a lot of interesting questions that lay out an interesting pattern of dots. The human brain wired like it is to search for patterns connects the dots with lines that don't necessarily exist.

It's just human nature... "It would make sense if this dot connected to this other dot..." even though there's no real connection.

Oh... The kidney failure/dialysis thing has been debunked a billion times.
Click to expand...


Damn, does this mean I spent all that money on numerology for nothing?
 
Schadenfroh

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
This should be easy for OBL to fix if he is alive, release a video with today's newspaper say "screw you guys" and send samples of his blood to various news agencies.

If he was already dead and a double was killed, then this is closure.
 
cganesh75

cganesh75

Elite Member | For Sale/Trade
Super Moderator
Oct 8, 2005
9,540
33
101
you know what OP, even if OBL was dead in 2001 or whatever, i still think there is somebody else of "high value" that was hiding in that compound and he was killed. I am more than happy with that too. be it taliban leader, al-qaeda No.2 leader etc etc.
 
MomentsofSanity

MomentsofSanity

Lifer
Jan 25, 2011
16,870
9,263
146
This theory that he was dead long ago seems to be dismissing one giant glaring problem. Why is his family now coming forward to say he was in fact killed on Monday in that compound? To perpetuate the American myth?

They spend 9 years keeping the man "alive" only to suddenly decide that "Hey, the Americans now claim he was killed. We know he couldn't have been since he was already dead but I guess we have to give up on that strategy now." That makes even less sense.

If they were able to keep the appearance of him alive for this long what better time to keep it going than when the imperial dogs are trying to say he's dead? What better F U would there be to the Americans at this point than a resurrection?
 
C

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Of course! Osama was killed off in 2001, and everyone in our government knew about it, yet somehow it never became a campaign attack against Bush in the 2004 race?

If Bush were lying about this "fact", it would have been spread on every news channel, every newspaper, every website describing Bush's incompetence.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
86,879
52,994
136
Why would you build a million dollar compound, staff it with guards, and undergo all this secrecy if you weren't hiding someone? Are you trying to say that we killed a different high value target there? If so, who?
 
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cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
And why have we never heard of any of these "conspiracy theories" about Osama being previous killed, until *after* he was actually killed? Why? Because the conspiracies are bullshit. And that's the end of that.
 
JTsyo

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,940
1,076
126
OBL's wife and daughter were in room with him when the SEALs killed him. They are in Pakistani custody now. The daughter has made a statement that it was her father that the SEALs killed. The man is dead, let it go.
It seems each day the news shows gets another new tidbit of information about the operation and then spend 10min running through the whole thing again. Yesterday it was of the secret nature of the "stealth" Blackhawks and how the wreckage of the one left in Pakistan was being picked over. There was also concern if Pakistan would allow China access to it.
 
cganesh75

cganesh75

Elite Member | For Sale/Trade
Super Moderator
Oct 8, 2005
9,540
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JTsyo said:
OBL's wife and daughter were in room with him when the SEALs killed him. They are in Pakistani custody now. The daughter has made a statement that it was her father that the SEALs killed. The man is dead, let it go.
It seems each day the news shows gets another new tidbit of information about the operation and then spend 10min running through the whole thing again. Yesterday it was of the secret nature of the "stealth" Blackhawks and how the wreckage of the one left in Pakistan was being picked over. There was also concern if Pakistan would allow China access to it.
Click to expand...

see now you opened new can of worms.. how do they know its his daughter.. where is the long form birth certificate? how do they know the other person is his wife.. where is the marriage certificate?
 
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cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
^^^
NO!

Every question *deserves* it's own separate 12 page thread discussing vitally important facts and details, else you're stepping on our free speech rights
 
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Codewiz

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2002
5,758
0
76
cganesh75 said:
can we end this shit now?

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/06/al-qaeda-confirms-bin-ladens-dead/?hpt=T1&iref=BN1
Click to expand...

You just don't get it. Osama was not behind 9/11. Al Qaeda is just a fake organization that the US uses to invade other countries under the flag of fighting terrorism. So, of course Al Qaeda is going to confirm we killed him.

Geez, you people just can't see the forest from the trees.





BTW, if you can't see the underlying sarcasm, I apologize, no I am not serious. But I am sure people believe this way.
 
C

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Codewiz said:
You just don't get it. Osama was not behind 9/11. Al Qaeda is just a fake organization that the US uses to invade other countries under the flag of fighting terrorism. So, of course Al Qaeda is going to confirm we killed him.

Geez, you people just can't see the forest from the trees.





BTW, if you can't see the underlying sarcasm, I apologize, no I am not serious. But I am sure people believe this way.
Click to expand...

The sad thing is, theories like this can be plausible - it's wrong in this case, but it's good to be skeptical. Remember the Maine!

It's not only sometimes that a country who wants to go to war benefits from creating an enemy, a provocation, to 'justify it' - most wars seem to start that way.

There are a few variations I see the most:

- The easiest is probably the 'hyped minor incident'.

WWI and the shooting of Archduke Ferdinand, one Israeli officer being killed by a land mine with Lebanon, for Panama it was a US soldier and his wife harassed, etc.

- The provocation

Long a staple of weaker - and therefore 'terrorist' groups, they get the people - locally or globally - to be against their enemy by provoking that enemy to overreact.

There are many examples but a class is the Muslim Croats shooting policemen, teachers, etc., to get Serbia to overreact - which they eventually did.

Then they hired a creative US ad agency who came up with the US marketing campaign to 'stop the new holocaust'.

The point here isn't that Milosevic didn't do terrible things, but just how this technique is used, and was used here - it worked, the world took their cause.

I've argued that that was a main goal of 9/11 - to get the US to overreact, and invade a Muslim nation, which would unite the Muslims in the middle east who did not like Al Queda, into an anti-US reaction that would serve Al Queda's agenda well, giving them a lot more support and a real force against the US.

In our revolutionary war, Samuel Adams was ecstatic when a handful of British troops were surrounded by angry townspeople throwing rocks, shouting 'fire!', and shot in panic, creating the chance for him to name it the "Boston Massacre", for which he got Paul Revere to draw a false picture, to incite anger against the British.

http://library.thinkquest.org/TQ0312848/bmassacre.htm

In our civil war, the North went to some lengths to have the South 'fire the first shot'.

When we wanted to launch the war against Mexico, the President sent a modest number of troops to 'patrol' a new 'border' he invented, where they'd undoubtedly run into Mexican troops far inside the border; a handful of US troops did run into the Mexicans and serve as the propaganda for the war.

'Remember the Alamo', a group of pro-slavery Americans who left the US and were part of a group of US expatriates who basically started a revolution in that part of Mexico.

When the Mexican government understandably tried to keep control, the rest was history.

More recently, using Serbia again, when Clinton wanted to start hostilities, he did so by publicizing that he had proposed a 'peace agreement' Milosevic refused - but it was pretty well hidden that the proposal - which was 'non-negotiable' had outrageous provisions effectively giving control of Serbia to foreign forces, where it seems clearly designed to have been a phony peace proposal he'd have to reject, to use as an excuse to start war.

In WWII, cutting off Japan's oil and refusing to talk to their 'peace envoys' have been argued to be efforts to provoke them to 'fire the first shot'.

In Iraq, a 'no-fly zone' of questionable legality may have in part been an effort to draw Saddam into actions that could be used to justify retaliation.

In Afghanistan, it appears the US armed the Muslim radicals to undermine the leftist government in a direct effort to draw the Soviets in to a proxy war, by arming them so they would use 'terrorism' against the country - which did have that result, where the leader asked the Soviets for help, who promptly came - and executed him.

- This is a theoretical one, but the least seen IMO, the 'phony enemy'.

You could file 'false flag' operations here, where a country stages an event and makes it look like the country they want to go to war with did it.

This has happened - but seems more rare, in part because it's hard to sustain repeated events or the risk of having the lie exposed.

This is where the Osama bin Laden or Al Queda conspiracy theories, that the US created phony enemies, would fit also.

One example would be where the Nazis, attempting to destroy the communists, burned the German legislature and blamed the communists.

Surprisingly, the trial was fair enough to find the accused not guilty.

Another might be where Stalin executed thousands of Polish officer prisoners - and then claimed the Nazis had done it.
 
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