Objective journalism as this administration likes it ? news you can't use

nowareman

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Jun 4, 2003
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An excellent article by Frank Rich of the NY Times. An administration that refuses to discuss issues except in safe venues. No one can rewrite history on the fly. Sooner or later reality will become what it is. Reality.

FRANK RICH
Why Are We Back in Vietnam?

Published: October 26, 2003


In his now legendary interview last month with Brit Hume of Fox News, George W. Bush explained that he doesn't get his news from the news media ? not even Fox. "The best way to get the news is from objective sources," the president said, laying down his utopian curriculum for Journalism 101. "And the most objective sources I have are people on my staff who tell me what's happening in the world."

Those sources? Condoleezza Rice and Andrew Card. Mr. Hume, helpfully dispensing with the "We Report" half of his network's slogan, did not ask the obvious follow-up question: What about us poor benighted souls who don't have these crack newscasters at our beck and call? But the answer came soon enough anyway. The White House made Condoleezza Rice's Newshour available to all Americans by dispatching her to Oprah.

"No camera crews have ever been granted this much access to this national security adviser," Oprah told her audience as she greeted her guest. A major scoop was not far behind. Is there anything you can tell us about the president that would surprise us? Oprah asked. Yes, Ms. Rice said, Mr. Bush is a very fast eater. "If you're not careful," she continued, "he'll be on dessert and you're still eating the salad."

And that's the way it was, Oct. 17, 2003.

This is objective journalism as this administration likes it, all right ? news you can't use. Until recently, the administration had often gotten what it wanted, especially on television, and not just on afternoon talk shows. From 9/11 through the fall of Saddam, the obsequiousness became so thick that even Terry Moran, the ABC News White House correspondent, said his colleagues looked "like zombies" during the notorious pre-shock-and-awe Bush news conference of March 6, 2003. That was the one that Mr. Bush himself called "scripted." The script included eight different instances in which he implied that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11, all of them left unchallenged by the dozens of reporters at hand.

Six months later, the audience is getting restless. The mission is not accomplished. The casualty list cannot be censored. The White House has been caught telling too many whoppers, the elucidation of which has become a cottage industry laying siege to the best-seller list. Vanity Fair, which once ran triumphalist photos of the administration by Annie Leibovitz, now looks at this White House and sees Teapot Dome. The Washington Post, which killed a week of "Boondocks" comic strips mocking Ms. Rice a few days before her Oprah appearance, relented and ran one anyway last weekend on its letters page, alongside the protests of its readers.

But print, even glossy print, is one thing, TV another. Like it or not, news doesn't register in our culture unless it happens on television. It wasn't until the relatively tardy date of March 9, 1954, when Edward R. Murrow took on Joseph McCarthy on CBS's "See It Now," that the junior senator from Wisconsin hit the skids. Sam Ervin's televised Watergate hearings reached a vast audience that couldn't yet identify the pre-Redford-and-Hoffman Woodward and Bernstein. Voters didn't turn against our Vietnam adventure en masse until it became, in Michael Arlen's undying phrase, the Living Room War.

However spurious any analogy between the two wars themselves may be, you can tell that the administration itself now fears that Iraq is becoming a Vietnam by the way it has started to fear TV news. When an ABC News reporter, Jeffrey Kofman, did the most stinging major network report on unhappiness among American troops last summer, Matt Drudge announced on his Web site that Mr. Kofman was gay and, more scandalously, a Canadian ? information he said had been provided to him by a White House staffer. This month, as bad news from Iraq proliferated, Mr. Bush pulled the old Nixon stunt of trying to "go over the heads of the filter and speak directly to the people" about the light at the end of the tunnel. In this case, "the people" meant the anchors of regional TV companies like Tribune Broadcasting, Belo and Hearst-Argyle.

Last Sunday, after those eight-minute-long regional Bush interviews were broadcast, Dana Milbank, The Washington Post's White House reporter, said on CNN's "Reliable Sources" that the local anchors "were asking tougher questions than we were." I want to believe that Mr. Milbank was just being polite, because if he's right, the bar for covering this White House has fallen below sea level. The local anchors rarely followed up any more than Brit Hume did. They produced less news than Oprah. Will countries like France, Russia and Germany provide troops for Iraq? one of them asked Mr. Bush. "You need to ask them," was the reply.

When an administration is hiding in a no-news bunker, how do you find the news? The first place to look, we're starting to learn, is any TV news show on which Ms. Rice, Mr. Card, Dick Cheney, Colin Powell and Donald Rumsfeld are not appearing. If they're before a camera, you can assume that the White House has deemed the venue a safe one ? a spin zone, if you will. They will proceed to obfuscate or dissemble at will, whether they're talking to Oprah, local anchors or a Sunday morning network chat-show host.

A TV news venue that the administration spurns entirely, by contrast, stands a chance of providing actual, fresh, accurate information. There have been at least two riveting examples this month. Ms. Rice, Mr. Powell and Mr. Rumsfeld all refused to be interviewed for an Oct. 9 PBS "Frontline" documentary about the walkup to the Iraq war. Yet without their assistance, "Frontline" nonetheless fingered Ahmad Chalabi as an administration source for its pre-war disinformation about weapons of mass destruction and the Qaeda-Saddam link. It also reported that the administration had largely ignored its own state department's prescient "Future of Iraq" project ? a decision that helped lead to our catastrophic ill-preparedness for Iraq's post-Saddam chaos. "Frontline" didn't have to resort to leaks for these revelations, either: the sources were on-camera interviews with Lt. Gen. Jay Garner, our first interim leader in Iraq, and Mr. Chalabi himself.

The administration officials who stiffed "Frontline" habitually do the same to ABC's "Nightline." Ted Koppel explains why in a round-table discussion published in a new book from the Brookings Institution Press, "The Media and the War on Terrorism": "They would much rather appear on a program on which they're likely not to get a tough cross-examination." On Oct. 15, the week after the "Frontline" exposé, the White House was true to form when asked to provide a guest for a "Nightline" exploring the president's new anti-media media campaign. But later in the day, the administration decided to send a non-marquee name, Dan Bartlett, its communications director. Mr. Koppel, practicing the increasingly lost art of relentless follow-up questioning, all but got his guest stuttering as he called him on half-truth after half-truth. Mr. Bartlett tried ? but soon failed ? to get away with defending a litany of prewar administration claims and insinuations: that the entire American contribution to rebuilding Iraq would be only $1.7 billion; that Iraqi oil income would pay for most of the reconstruction; and that the entire war would proceed as quickly as a cakewalk.

It's at times like this that we must be grateful that Disney didn't succeed in jettisoning "Nightline" for David Letterman. (The administration is only too happy to send its top brass to Mr. Letterman when it doesn't send them to Oprah ? Colin Powell most recently.) If the Oct. 15 "Nightline" wasn't an Edward R. Murrow turning point in the coverage of the war on terrorism, it's the closest we've seen to one since 9/11. There will be others, because this administration doesn't realize that trying to control the news is always a loser. Most of the press was as slow to challenge Joe McCarthy, the Robert McNamara Pentagon and the Nixon administration as it has been to challenge the wartime Bush White House. But in America, at least, history always catches up with those who try to falsify it in real time. That's what L.B.J. and Nixon both learned the hard way.

Even as President Bush was using a regional anchor to tell "the people" that congressional delegations were visiting Iraq and would come back with happy progress reports, Fox News and Newsweek were telling us that these delegations were spending their nights in the safety of Kuwait, not Iraq. Even as identical, upbeat form letters from American soldiers mysteriously turned up in newspapers across the United States, Stars and Stripes, the Pentagon-financed armed forces newspaper, was reporting that half the troops it polled had low morale. "Some troops even go so far as to say they've been ordered not to talk to V.I.P.'s because leaders are afraid of what they might say," observed Stars and Stripes' Jon Anderson in a Koppel-style interview with the commander, Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez. This week The Post's Mr. Milbank reported that the administration is shutting off TV images of dead American soldiers, too, by enforcing a ban on "news coverage and photography" of their flag-draped coffins returning to American military bases.

In-bed embeds are yesterday's news. It's only a matter of time before more dissenting troops talk to a reporter with a camera ? and in TV news, time moves faster now, via satellite phones, than it did in the era when a network report had to wait for the processing of film or the shipping of video. At the tender age of six months, the war in Iraq is not remotely a Vietnam. But from the way the administration tries to manage the news against all reality, even that irrevocable reality encased in flag-draped coffins, you can only wonder if it might yet persuade the audience at home that we're mired in another Tet after all.
 

Gaard

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Feb 17, 2002
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<<. "And the most objective sources I have are people on my staff who tell me what's happening in the world.">>

lol

nice
 

GrGr

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Sep 25, 2003
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This administration is waging a "War of Disinformation" against it's own citizens.
 

nowareman

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Jun 4, 2003
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"No camera crews have ever been granted this much access to this national security adviser," Oprah told her audience as she greeted her guest. A major scoop was not far behind. Is there anything you can tell us about the president that would surprise us? Oprah asked. Yes, Ms. Rice said, Mr. Bush is a very fast eater. "If you're not careful," she continued, "he'll be on dessert and you're still eating the salad."

Real probing in depth questioning revealing important information all Americans need to know. Oprah as investigative reporter. I'd like to see Ms. Rice or any other high administration official sit down with Frank Rich or give this kind of access to Front Line or Ted Koppel. But I don't think we'll be seeing that happening any time soon with this administration. Just more fluff and in a nation that lives on junk food more people eating it up.
 

chess9

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Apr 15, 2000
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It won't just be the troops talking at some point. Folks at the NSC, CIA, and State Department are eventually going to completely bury this President ALIVE in his own lies.
Even so, the American people are so busy driving their SUVs 80 mph in a 25 mph zone while on the cell phone eating a cheeseburger and whacking off that they don't have the time or inclination to pay attention to what's happening in the world or even with the Bushmeister. Very sad....
-Robert
 

Jmman

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Dec 17, 1999
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An article about objective journalism and the quoted article is from the NYTimes........
rolleye.gif
There seems to be a little irony there........;)
 

nowareman

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Jun 4, 2003
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Originally posted by: Jmman
An article about objective journalism and the quoted article is from the NYTimes........
rolleye.gif
There seems to be a little irony there........;)

An article by Frank Rich of the NY Times that points out facts about the way the White House handles news and information that Americans get. If you have a problem with any of the information in the article please address it. Don't feel as though you have to ignore the facts like the White House.
 

Jmman

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Dec 17, 1999
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Actually, this is an amazing article. An administration that tries to spin the media to improve appearances? Shocking!

In all seriousness, can you say "Master of the Obvious!!" ALL administrations try to spin the media.
 

Gaard

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Feb 17, 2002
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Originally posted by: Jmman
Actually, this is an amazing article. An administration that tries to spin the media to improve appearances? Shocking!

In all seriousness, can you say "Master of the Obvious!!" ALL administrations try to spin the media.

So your first response is to comment on the source. When that's pointed out to you as not really addressing the facts of the article, you respond with "But everyone does it."

Let me guess. You, for some reason, feel obligated to defend our president against anything that might be construed as negaitivity. You're just unsure how to go about it, right?




 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: Jmman
Actually, this is an amazing article. An administration that tries to spin the media to improve appearances? Shocking!

In all seriousness, can you say "Master of the Obvious!!" ALL administrations try to spin the media.

The only thing that's obvious is that you are another Bush apologist trying to divert attention from Dubya.
 

nowareman

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Jun 4, 2003
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Originally posted by: Jmman
Actually, this is an amazing article. An administration that tries to spin the media to improve appearances? Shocking!

In all seriousness, can you say "Master of the Obvious!!" ALL administrations try to spin the media.

How many of them try to spin it into a preemptive attack on a nation while making false claims of threats which turn our attention and resources away from the real threat while costing American lives and hundreds of billions of dollars threatening our fragile economic recovery while alienating our NATO allies and the UN and then try to insult the intelligence of Americans by spinning the whole mess into some pseudo-humanitarian excuse which is in reality just grabbing oil and control of a region in the name of democracy? This is more than a few steps beyond what the average administration does to get their message across in the press. And I haven't even mentioned releasing classified information about CIA operatives.
 

Jmman

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Dec 17, 1999
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I actually don't like Bush, didn't vote for Bush, and probably won't vote for Bush this time. Posting an article declaiming the supposed "crimes" of this administration when every administration since this country was founded has done the same thing just seems a little ridiculous to me. Feel free to carry on though.....;)
 

nowareman

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Jun 4, 2003
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Originally posted by: Jmman
I actually don't like Bush, didn't vote for Bush, and probably won't vote for Bush this time. Posting an article declaiming the supposed "crimes" of this administration when every administration since this country was founded has done the same thing just seems a little ridiculous to me. Feel free to carry on though.....;)

You can ignore the scale and amount of the spin if you like. I choose not to ignore it. This is the most closed secretive administration I can remember and the sheer amount of lies misinformation and evasion they put out compared to other administration as well as the subjects of their lies and the harm they are doing to America puts them in a league all their own.
 

chess9

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Apr 15, 2000
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Jmman:

Yes, of course you're right. However, we are talking about this President's lies. It's a given that all politicians lie. Some lie more than others. Some lie about sex, some like about war. Johnson and his little toady McNamara lied about war. So did Nixon. And so has Bush. Another big difference is the clumsiness of the Bush Administration. One can always admire, in a perverse way, artful lieing. We've seen so little artful lieing by the BushLeaguers that one may only conclude that they just don't give a s**t what anyone thinks, like the Jacobins they are. This may be Texas bravado, or just the stupidity of the leader. Take your pick. :), Nonetheless, it isn't the fact Bush lies that is important, but the nature and extent of the lies themselves. Big difference!

-Robert
 

nowareman

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Jun 4, 2003
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Originally posted by: chess9
Jmman:

Yes, of course you're right. However, we are talking about this President's lies. It's a given that all politicians lie. Some lie more than others. Some lie about sex, some like about war. Johnson and his little toady McNamara lied about war. So did Nixon. And so has Bush. Another big difference is the clumsiness of the Bush Administration. One can always admire, in a perverse way, artful lieing. We've seen so little artful lieing by the BushLeaguers that one may only conclude that they just don't give a s**t what anyone thinks, like the Jacobins they are. This may be Texas bravado, or just the stupidity of the leader. Take your pick. :), Nonetheless, it isn't the fact Bush lies that is important, but the nature and extent of the lies themselves. Big difference!

-Robert

That's the point I'm trying to make Robert better than I've been able to make it so far. That and the point Chess9 made about Americans being too busy to even notice or care what is going on add up to a very dangerous situation IMO in our country. It's time to get to the truth on the disinformation and lies we've been fed and stop making excuses for what has been a White House that will say or do anything to get their own way while we are left in the dark paying for their mistakes with American lives and billions of American taxpayer dollars.
 

chess9

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Apr 15, 2000
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nowareman:

The dirty little secret known by almost all the political pros is that you CAN lie to all the people all the time (Microsoft has been doing it for years!). That is now at the heart of the right wing's strategy. Tell them what you want them to believe and they WILL believe it. This coming election will be a plebiscite on this notion more so than ever before. How will Americans, who rank dead last among the major industrialized nations in the understanding of simple biological principles and darned near last in their grasp of mathematics, be able to sort out the lies from reality? Well, if you believe in the power of prayer, good, because that is all we have left!

-Robert
 

heartsurgeon

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Aug 18, 2001
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An article about objective journalism and the quoted article is from the NYTimes........ There seems to be a little irony there........

Bravo! the obvious needs to be pointed out for most of the folks who post in this forum.

The NYT's has its own agenda and "Spin"..they are the masters of this.

their spinning is legendary..

the NYT's won a Pulitzer Prize for pro-Stalin propaganda it published. A 1932 Pulitzer Prize awarded to the New York Times should be revoked, says a historian assigned by the newspaper to review the winning work, which has been questioned for years. A subcommittee of the Pulitzer Board has reviewed the awarding of the prize won in 1932 by Walter Duranty for his series on the Soviet Union. Mark von Hagen, a Columbia University history professor, said in his report to the New York Times that Mr. Duranty "frequently writes in the enthusiastically propagandistic language of his sources" and that "there is a serious lack of balance in his writing." "For the sake of the New York Times' honor, they should take the prize away," Mr. von Hagen said in an interview on Oct. 22 with the Associated PressMr. Duranty eventually was criticized for reporting the communist line, rather than the facts. According to the 1990 book "Stalin's Apologist," by Sally J. Taylor, Mr. Duranty knew of the famine but ignored the atrocities to preserve his access to Stalin. The famine came in 1933, a year after Mr. Duranty won his Pulitzer. Mr. von Hagen's report said Mr. Duranty, as a reporter, "fell under Stalin's spell."

you have to come to grip with the reality that the NYT is a mouthpiece of the hard core left
 

nowareman

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Jun 4, 2003
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Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
An article about objective journalism and the quoted article is from the NYTimes........ There seems to be a little irony there........

Bravo! the obvious needs to be pointed out for most of the folks who post in this forum.

The NYT's has its own agenda and "Spin"..they are the masters of this.

their spinning is legendary..

the NYT's won a Pulitzer Prize for pro-Stalin propaganda it published. A 1932 Pulitzer Prize awarded to the New York Times should be revoked, says a historian assigned by the newspaper to review the winning work, which has been questioned for years. A subcommittee of the Pulitzer Board has reviewed the awarding of the prize won in 1932 by Walter Duranty for his series on the Soviet Union. Mark von Hagen, a Columbia University history professor, said in his report to the New York Times that Mr. Duranty "frequently writes in the enthusiastically propagandistic language of his sources" and that "there is a serious lack of balance in his writing." "For the sake of the New York Times' honor, they should take the prize away," Mr. von Hagen said in an interview on Oct. 22 with the Associated PressMr. Duranty eventually was criticized for reporting the communist line, rather than the facts. According to the 1990 book "Stalin's Apologist," by Sally J. Taylor, Mr. Duranty knew of the famine but ignored the atrocities to preserve his access to Stalin. The famine came in 1933, a year after Mr. Duranty won his Pulitzer. Mr. von Hagen's report said Mr. Duranty, as a reporter, "fell under Stalin's spell."

you have to come to grip with the reality that the NYT is a mouthpiece of the hard core left

When you can't argue the point attack the source. Reply to the article don't bring up articles from the 1930s.
 

DealMonkey

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Nov 25, 2001
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I'd like to say that if the media's performance thus far somehow supports the notion of a liberal media bias - then I'd like to suggest that the media is not nearly liberal enough. There should be no "safe haven" for administration officials to get treated with kid gloves. If anything, the so-called "liberal media" has been remiss in their duty to challenge the propoganda coming out of the White House and show all sides of the story.
 

nowareman

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Jun 4, 2003
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Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I'd like to say that if the media's performance thus far somehow supports the notion of a liberal media bias - then I'd like to suggest that the media is not nearly liberal enough. There should be no "safe haven" for administration officials to get treated with kid gloves. If anything, the so-called "liberal media" has been remiss in their duty to challenge the propoganda coming out of the White House and show all sides of the story.

I agree. Thirty or forty years ago the journalists who were working then would have torn the Bush administration or any administration that placed us in this position to pieces. An American president who invaded a country that did not attack us or even present a threat and lied to build the case for attacking the country on top of that wouldn't have lasted 24 hours. And Americans wouldn't have stood for it for one minute. Something has happened to our country that really worries me. We are now lied to and ignored as a matter of course and people just accept it. Americans need to take back their country and demand accountability from people whose lies create the kind of incredible mess we find ourselves in in Iraq. American blood isn't cheap. It isn't spilled for lies. And American taxpayers can't be taken for the kind of suckers that will just ante up to cover the backs of people who invented reasons to go to war that will cost us billions upon billions for years to come because if you think this $87 billion is the last of it you are sadly mistaken.
 

chess9

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Apr 15, 2000
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Heartsurgeon:

1932? Couldn't you find something from the 14th century? :) I mean, what kind of conservative are you? A real conservative would dig up something from the Peloponnesian War. :)
-Robert
 

heartsurgeon

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Aug 18, 2001
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Reply to the article

it doesn't sound/read like an article, it reads like an opinion/editorial piece. nuff said

1932? Couldn't you find something from the 14th century?

this is CURRENT EVENTS, don't you guys keep up with that anymore in high school?

This has been written about in the Washington Post, and the New York Times recently (last few months).
The New York Times, responding to outside pressure, appointed an "independent auditor" to review the articles Duranty wrote, and the Pulitzer the Times was awarded for it. The auditor's recommendation was that the Times return the Pulitzer and disavow the articles. This is currently going on, now folks! An Pinch Sulzberger's response (the publisher of NYT)? He's thinking about it......

The NYT is incapable of acknowledging the findings of its own 2003 internal audit, that they won a Pulitzer Prize for making Stalin look good and ignoring facts (like millions of dead bodies)! Jason Blair published fictious crap for years before being dealt with....and you have confidence in the reporting this paper does?

This is about 1932, and 2003, and all the years in between, and the dubious reputation of a major news source, which apparently several of you believe to be the gospel...
 

smashp

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Aug 30, 2003
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Originally posted by: Jmman
I actually don't like Bush, didn't vote for Bush, and probably won't vote for Bush this time. Posting an article declaiming the supposed "crimes" of this administration when every administration since this country was founded has done the same thing just seems a little ridiculous to me. Feel free to carry on though.....;)



Oh really, I remember how clinton ( one example) sent his National security advisor, Secratary of State, and Secratary of defence to Ohio State for a "town hall" meeting and it went extremely sour, yet they made a attempt to answer the Hard questions, to a volitile crowd. It backfired, yet they continue to do things such as this. NOT all Admi are as propagandic as this one.
 

nowareman

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Jun 4, 2003
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Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
Reply to the article

it doesn't sound/read like an article, it reads like an opinion/editorial piece. nuff said

1932? Couldn't you find something from the 14th century?

this is CURRENT EVENTS, don't you guys keep up with that anymore in high school?

This has been written about in the Washington Post, and the New York Times recently (last few months).
The New York Times, responding to outside pressure, appointed an "independent auditor" to review the articles Duranty wrote, and the Pulitzer the Times was awarded for it. The auditor's recommendation was that the Times return the Pulitzer and disavow the articles. This is currently going on, now folks! An Pinch Sulzberger's response (the publisher of NYT)? He's thinking about it......

The NYT is incapable of acknowledging the findings of its own 2003 internal audit, that they won a Pulitzer Prize for making Stalin look good and ignoring facts (like millions of dead bodies)! Jason Blair published fictious crap for years before being dealt with....and you have confidence in the reporting this paper does?

This is about 1932, and 2003, and all the years in between, and the dubious reputation of a major news source, which apparently several of you believe to be the gospel...

And what pray tell heartsurgeon do you consider a reputable news source and how do you justify the dead bodies in Iraq or Viet Nam or Panama or Grenada or Nicaragua or Columbia or Chile or Gaza?
 

PatboyX

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2001
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i assumed it was an op/ed bit.

regardless, the bush quote is still mightly F-ed up.