Obama's plan to Improve Intelligence Capacity and Protect Civil Liberties

[TallBill]

Another section from http://www.change.gov, but the other thread is over-run with civil service talk and this is a separate issue.

Improve Information Sharing and Analysis: Barack Obama will improve our intelligence system by creating a senior position to coordinate domestic intelligence gathering; establishing a grant program to support thousands more state and local level intelligence analysts and increasing our capacity to share intelligence across all levels of government.

Give Real Authority to the Privacy and Civil Liberties Board: Created by Congress and recommended by the 9/11 Commission, the Privacy and Civil Liberties Board needs to be substantially reformed and empowered to safeguard against an erosion in American civil liberties. As president, Barack Obama will support efforts to strengthen the Board with subpoena powers and reporting responsibilities, will give the Board a robust mandate designed to protect American civil liberties and will demand transparency from the Board to ensure accountability.

Strengthen Institutions to Fight Terrorism: Overseas, Barack Obama will establish a Shared Security Partnership Program to invest $5 billion over three years to improve cooperation between U.S. and foreign intelligence and law enforcement agencies. This program will include information sharing, as well as funding for training, operations, border security, anti-corruption programs, technology, and the targeting of terrorist financing.

So it looks like more intelligence collection then the Bush administration, but instead of skirting the law, he'll rework the law. This will also require more reporting and record keeping.

I'm all for the extra intelligence, just curious how the "invasion of privacy" people feel about this.

Edit - changed to "rework the law" for clarification.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I don't read it that way. In fact I get nothing from it at all. He's going to make changes, but what those changes are isn't clear. We ought to keep a close eye on legislation when it's proposed.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: TallBill
Another section from change.gov, but the other thread is over-run with civil service talk and this is a separate issue.

Improve Information Sharing and Analysis: Barack Obama will improve our intelligence system by creating a senior position to coordinate domestic intelligence gathering; establishing a grant program to support thousands more state and local level intelligence analysts and increasing our capacity to share intelligence across all levels of government.

Give Real Authority to the Privacy and Civil Liberties Board: Created by Congress and recommended by the 9/11 Commission, the Privacy and Civil Liberties Board needs to be substantially reformed and empowered to safeguard against an erosion in American civil liberties. As president, Barack Obama will support efforts to strengthen the Board with subpoena powers and reporting responsibilities, will give the Board a robust mandate designed to protect American civil liberties and will demand transparency from the Board to ensure accountability.

Strengthen Institutions to Fight Terrorism: Overseas, Barack Obama will establish a Shared Security Partnership Program to invest $5 billion over three years to improve cooperation between U.S. and foreign intelligence and law enforcement agencies. This program will include information sharing, as well as funding for training, operations, border security, anti-corruption programs, technology, and the targeting of terrorist financing.

So it looks like more intelligence collection then the Bush administration, but instead of skirting the law, he'll plan on flat out changing the law. This will also require more reporting and record keeping.

I'm all for the extra intelligence, just curious how the "invasion of privacy" people feel about this.

Obama is a Democrat. There is a 0% chance that him or his administration would abuse such things.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Tall Bill is oncer again putting his own slant on what he THINKS is being said instead of what is actually being said!!

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Tall Bill is oncer again putting his own slant on what he THINKS is being said instead of what is actually being said!!

Yes, this is what I think, now post what you think. That's how it works.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: TallBill
Another section from change.gov, but the other thread is over-run with civil service talk and this is a separate issue.

Improve Information Sharing and Analysis: Barack Obama will improve our intelligence system by creating a senior position to coordinate domestic intelligence gathering; establishing a grant program to support thousands more state and local level intelligence analysts and increasing our capacity to share intelligence across all levels of government.

Give Real Authority to the Privacy and Civil Liberties Board: Created by Congress and recommended by the 9/11 Commission, the Privacy and Civil Liberties Board needs to be substantially reformed and empowered to safeguard against an erosion in American civil liberties. As president, Barack Obama will support efforts to strengthen the Board with subpoena powers and reporting responsibilities, will give the Board a robust mandate designed to protect American civil liberties and will demand transparency from the Board to ensure accountability.

Strengthen Institutions to Fight Terrorism: Overseas, Barack Obama will establish a Shared Security Partnership Program to invest $5 billion over three years to improve cooperation between U.S. and foreign intelligence and law enforcement agencies. This program will include information sharing, as well as funding for training, operations, border security, anti-corruption programs, technology, and the targeting of terrorist financing.

So it looks like more intelligence collection then the Bush administration, but instead of skirting the law, he'll plan on flat out changing the law. This will also require more reporting and record keeping.

I'm all for the extra intelligence, just curious how the "invasion of privacy" people feel about this.

Not sure what you mean there, but it seems cynical. It mentions the 9/11 report/recommendations, so the answer would likely be there.

Sounds to me that the Obama Plan is to coordinate Intelligence(what the DHS was supposed to do) and to beef up a/the Watchdog overseeing things at the same time to Protect Civil Liberties. I don't see it as an increase in surveilance, it is an increase in control and boundaries regarding Surveilence.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
I don't read it that way. In fact I get nothing from it at all. He's going to make changes, but what those changes are isn't clear. We ought to keep a close eye on legislation when it's proposed.

I agree, but it doesn't look like internal intelligence will be losing any power at all, just reworked.

 

[fskimospy]

Are you guys reading the same passage as I am? You guys have to take off the crazy filter. He says he is going to hire thousands more intel analysts, etc. That sounds like a good idea to me, because we are always hearing about how we don't have enough. (my biggest question is where he's going to find the people) The whole second paragraph is about how he wants to create a new oversight board with subpoena power to check up on the intel agencies, to control them, and to protect civil liberties better.

How is this anything but an improvement over what we have now? Even if the crazy interpretation were totally correct, at least he would be working to change the law as opposed to ignoring the law with some broad assertion of executive power. So... either way a massive improvement over the Bush administration. Three cheers for Obama on this one.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Tall Bill is oncer again putting his own slant on what he THINKS is being said instead of what is actually being said!!

Yes, this is what I think, now post what you think. That's how it works.

Holy crap I've been doing it all wrong!

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: TallBill
I'm all for the extra intelligence, just curious how the "invasion of privacy" people feel about this.

I think this is great news. Our single biggest asset as a nation is the ability "to know". The Iraq invasion could have been completely avoided if we had better info.

What Obama is doing is taking info that already exists, and adding databases and analysts to help correlate it. I don't see this as any additional invasion of privacy, just a better use of what we already have.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Not sure what you mean there, but it seems cynical. It mentions the 9/11 report/recommendations, so the answer would likely be there.

Sounds to me that the Obama Plan is to coordinate Intelligence(what the DHS was supposed to do) and to beef up a/the Watchdog overseeing things at the same time to Protect Civil Liberties. I don't see it as an increase in surveilance, it is an increase in control and boundaries regarding Surveilence.

It's not cynical, I worded that poorly. Obviously what Bush is doing now is highly questionable. It appears that Obama plans on closing the loopholes with a better set of rules, but in the end surveillance isn't going anywhere.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: sandorski

Not sure what you mean there, but it seems cynical. It mentions the 9/11 report/recommendations, so the answer would likely be there.

Sounds to me that the Obama Plan is to coordinate Intelligence(what the DHS was supposed to do) and to beef up a/the Watchdog overseeing things at the same time to Protect Civil Liberties. I don't see it as an increase in surveilance, it is an increase in control and boundaries regarding Surveilence.

It's not cynical, I worded that poorly. Obviously what Bush is doing now is highly questionable. It appears that Obama plans on closing the loopholes with a better set of rules, but in the end surveillance isn't going anywhere.

There has always been surveilence, it just had tight rules and limitations. Those were relaxed under Bush and appear to be headed back to a tightening under Obama.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Are you guys reading the same passage as I am? You guys have to take off the crazy filter. He says he is going to hire thousands more intel analysts, etc. That sounds like a good idea to me, because we are always hearing about how we don't have enough. (my biggest question is where he's going to find the people) The whole second paragraph is about how he wants to create a new oversight board with subpoena power to check up on the intel agencies, to control them, and to protect civil liberties better.

How is this anything but an improvement over what we have now? Even if the crazy interpretation were totally correct, at least he would be working to change the law as opposed to ignoring the law with some broad assertion of executive power. So... either way a massive improvement over the Bush administration. Three cheers for Obama on this one.

How short-sighted you are. So as long as you change the laws, its ok to abuse power?

Remember, there will be another Republican president. You will be singing a different tune when and if any new policies are transferred to a (R) administration. Just like the "Fairness" doctrine. I'm sure you will be all for it when your guys are in charge of deciding what is "fair." But someday, someone you dont like will be monitoring radio and TV.

Giving the government any new power should always be done with great caution, because who knows who will be in charge of that government someday? Increasing domestic surveillance should be included in that.

 

[sandorski]

That's not what he said, but whatever.

 

[uclaLabrat]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: TallBill
Another section from change.gov, but the other thread is over-run with civil service talk and this is a separate issue.

Improve Information Sharing and Analysis: Barack Obama will improve our intelligence system by creating a senior position to coordinate domestic intelligence gathering; establishing a grant program to support thousands more state and local level intelligence analysts and increasing our capacity to share intelligence across all levels of government.

Give Real Authority to the Privacy and Civil Liberties Board: Created by Congress and recommended by the 9/11 Commission, the Privacy and Civil Liberties Board needs to be substantially reformed and empowered to safeguard against an erosion in American civil liberties. As president, Barack Obama will support efforts to strengthen the Board with subpoena powers and reporting responsibilities, will give the Board a robust mandate designed to protect American civil liberties and will demand transparency from the Board to ensure accountability.

Strengthen Institutions to Fight Terrorism: Overseas, Barack Obama will establish a Shared Security Partnership Program to invest $5 billion over three years to improve cooperation between U.S. and foreign intelligence and law enforcement agencies. This program will include information sharing, as well as funding for training, operations, border security, anti-corruption programs, technology, and the targeting of terrorist financing.

So it looks like more intelligence collection then the Bush administration, but instead of skirting the law, he'll plan on flat out changing the law. This will also require more reporting and record keeping.

I'm all for the extra intelligence, just curious how the "invasion of privacy" people feel about this.

Obama is a Democrat. There is a 0% chance that him or his administration would abuse such things.

While this is sarcasm, I feel a lot better having a constitutional law expert try to wrangle the nuances of this sort of legislation than a washed-up frat boy.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
He says he is going to hire thousands more intel analysts, etc. That sounds like a good idea to me, because we are always hearing about how we don't have enough. (my biggest question is where he's going to find the people)

I believe there's a large pool of gay translators kicked out of the armed forces...

 

[palehorse]

Improve Information Sharing and Analysis: Barack Obama will improve our intelligence system by creating a senior position to coordinate domestic intelligence gathering

hmm.. that's certainly interesting. Wouldn't that be the FBI's responsibility? Is he planning to replace the FBI's own Deputy Director for Intelligence? Exactly which member of the Intelligence community (IC) will this new "senior position" be a part of?

Clarification would be swell...

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Improve Information Sharing and Analysis: Barack Obama will improve our intelligence system by creating a senior position to coordinate domestic intelligence gathering

hmm.. that's certainly interesting. Wouldn't that be the FBI's responsibility? Is he planning to replace the FBI's own Deputy Director for Intelligence? Exactly which member of the Intelligence community (IC) will this new "senior position" be a part of?

Clarification would be swell...

Yeah, I'm just as baffled. I guess we'll find out.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Are you guys reading the same passage as I am? You guys have to take off the crazy filter. He says he is going to hire thousands more intel analysts, etc. That sounds like a good idea to me, because we are always hearing about how we don't have enough. (my biggest question is where he's going to find the people) The whole second paragraph is about how he wants to create a new oversight board with subpoena power to check up on the intel agencies, to control them, and to protect civil liberties better.

How is this anything but an improvement over what we have now? Even if the crazy interpretation were totally correct, at least he would be working to change the law as opposed to ignoring the law with some broad assertion of executive power. So... either way a massive improvement over the Bush administration. Three cheers for Obama on this one.

How short-sighted you are. So as long as you change the laws, its ok to abuse power?

Remember, there will be another Republican president. You will be singing a different tune when and if any new policies are transferred to a (R) administration. Just like the "Fairness" doctrine. I'm sure you will be all for it when your guys are in charge of deciding what is "fair." But someday, someone you dont like will be monitoring radio and TV.

Giving the government any new power should always be done with great caution, because who knows who will be in charge of that government someday? Increasing domestic surveillance should be included in that.

You really need to stop listening to right wing talk radio and start reading what people write. I never said it was okay to abuse power, but it is simply unquestionable that a president that acts within the law is a huge improvement over one who deliberately violates the law. Where were you when Bush lawlessly decided that federal statues no longer applied to him?

Secondly there is absolutely nothing in that excerpt that claims any change in the law as it currently stands in relation to privacy, but what it does state is a significant increase in the level of oversight present. You don't have to remind me of anything, Bush's illegal wiretapping program was the single most important issue to me over the last 4 years. The only details in this quote that are even relevant to it on an individual scale is a pledge to protect civil liberties better.

Your blind partisanship is getting old. If you care about civil liberties and privacy this release is a good thing. Sure it could be a whole hell of a lot better, but an improvement is an improvement regardless.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Are you guys reading the same passage as I am? You guys have to take off the crazy filter. He says he is going to hire thousands more intel analysts, etc. That sounds like a good idea to me, because we are always hearing about how we don't have enough. (my biggest question is where he's going to find the people) The whole second paragraph is about how he wants to create a new oversight board with subpoena power to check up on the intel agencies, to control them, and to protect civil liberties better.

How is this anything but an improvement over what we have now? Even if the crazy interpretation were totally correct, at least he would be working to change the law as opposed to ignoring the law with some broad assertion of executive power. So... either way a massive improvement over the Bush administration. Three cheers for Obama on this one.

How short-sighted you are. So as long as you change the laws, its ok to abuse power?

Remember, there will be another Republican president. You will be singing a different tune when and if any new policies are transferred to a (R) administration. Just like the "Fairness" doctrine. I'm sure you will be all for it when your guys are in charge of deciding what is "fair." But someday, someone you dont like will be monitoring radio and TV.

Giving the government any new power should always be done with great caution, because who knows who will be in charge of that government someday? Increasing domestic surveillance should be included in that.

*Snip*

Your blind partisanship is getting old. If you care about civil liberties and privacy this release is a good thing. Sure it could be a whole hell of a lot better, but an improvement is an improvement regardless.

Really? I can name several issues that I'm not in lock-step with Republicans on. And I express those views here.

I'd be interested in how many issues in which you dont fit the "liberal" stereotype. How is that glass house holding up for you?

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Tall Bill is oncer again putting his own slant on what he THINKS is being said instead of what is actually being said!!

Savor it while you can.

I hear TallBill just signed a very lucrative contract with Fox News.

 

[Xavier434]

Honestly, and I obviously cannot be certain, but it almost sounds as if the bulk of it is about stream lining and automating the system that we have now more. I know that our current system isn't exactly popular, but such things could reduce costs while increase productivity. It also follows his pattern of thinking that we have seen in other proposed ideas. It could become a good first step in the right direction at the very least.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Tall Bill is oncer again putting his own slant on what he THINKS is being said instead of what is actually being said!!

Savor it while you can.

I hear TallBill just signed a very lucrative contract with Fox News.

That'd be fucking sweet if I did, but at the same time I have never even seen Fox News. I don't even get it here if I wanted to watch it.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Really? I can name several issues that I'm not in lock-step with Republicans on. And I express those views here.

I'd be interested in how many issues in which you dont fit the "liberal" stereotype. How is that glass house holding up for you?

Nice job not addressing anything pertinent to the discussion that he addressed in your response (and snipping it for good measure) and then going and changing the topic from Obama's proposals to a discussion of your partisanship, or lack thereof, which consisted of one sentence in eskimo's post. Obama would have referred to that technique during the campaign season as a distraction.

So here was his post...

Originally posted by: eskimospy
You really need to stop listening to right wing talk radio and start reading what people write. I never said it was okay to abuse power, but it is simply unquestionable that a president that acts within the law is a huge improvement over one who deliberately violates the law. Where were you when Bush lawlessly decided that federal statues no longer applied to him?

Secondly there is absolutely nothing in that excerpt that claims any change in the law as it currently stands in relation to privacy, but what it does state is a significant increase in the level of oversight present. You don't have to remind me of anything, Bush's illegal wiretapping program was the single most important issue to me over the last 4 years. The only details in this quote that are even relevant to it on an individual scale is a pledge to protect civil liberties better.

Your blind partisanship is getting old. If you care about civil liberties and privacy this release is a good thing. Sure it could be a whole hell of a lot better, but an improvement is an improvement regardless.

...and what you seized on and decided to respond to in bold. That's called not having any response.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Tall Bill is oncer again putting his own slant on what he THINKS is being said instead of what is actually being said!!

Savor it while you can.

I hear TallBill just signed a very lucrative contract with Fox News.

Actually I find it more disturbing that people aren't looking at Obama with some skepticism. While I believe that Obama has a different set of intentions than Bush, and I don't see it the same as he, at least Bill is looking at what's happening.

It's kind of funny, but over the last 8 years, I've been seen as largely liberal by some. That will probably change and I'll be one of "those" conservatives, because I'll be just as suspicious of people in power, and hold the new party in power to the same standards. No, I DO NOT trust politicians with my liberty. It is up to them to prove they are worthy of the position while in office, although I'll give them the benefit of the doubt before becoming overly critical.

What it comes down to me is that people religiously followed Bush and his policies, and heaven help you if you questioned or disagreed. I expect the same with Obams, and frankly I'm seeing it already.

There is only one word to describe those who trust their leaders without making damned sure that trust is well placed. That word is "fool"