Obama's orders launched Fast and Furious

[boomerang]

Pretty damning video. Let's see if we have a fourth estate motivated and willing to do their duty. I'm certain they'll pretend they never even saw this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-PNhYk9NuNc

Project Gun Runner (Fast and Furious) was launched under the orders of President Barack Obama with the knowledge of Attorney General Eric Holder. Deputy Attorney General David Ogden announced the Obama Administration's new and aggressive 'comprehensive plan' on March, 24, 2009. The plan was aimed at disrupting gun trafficking between the United States and Mexico.

 

[Jhhnn]

But, but, all our resident Righties claim that American guns aren't part of the problem in Mexico, at all. So Project Gun Runner couldn't possibly have done much harm, right?

And only the 5.56mm autoloaders from this effort ended up in Mexico, in the hands of the cartels, not any of the other thousands sold across the Southwest over the recent past according to our local experts...

They'll chime in shortly, I'm sure...

To tell us that it's all Obama's Fault, everything!

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

But, but, all our resident Righties claim that American guns aren't part of the problem in Mexico, at all. So Project Gun Runner couldn't possibly have done much harm, right?

And only the 5.56mm autoloaders from this effort ended up in Mexico, in the hands of the cartels, not any of the other thousands sold across the Southwest over the recent past according to our local experts...

They'll chime in shortly, I'm sure...

To tell us that it's all Obama's Fault, everything!

Stupid post is stupid without links. Who said US weapons aren't being used? You're sidestepping the issue here.

I'll have to dig up the link but I remember seeing where one of the PGR guns was used in the killing of a border patrol agent.

edit: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/23/eveningnews/main20035609.shtml

December 14, 2010. The place: a dangerous smuggling route in Arizona not far from the border. A special tactical border squad was on patrol when gunfire broke out and agent Brian Terry was killed.


Kent, Brian's brother, said "he was my only brother. That was the only brother I had. I'm lost."


The assault rifles found at the murder were traced back to a U.S. gun shop. Where they came from and how they got there is a scandal so large, some insiders say it surpasses the shoot-out at Ruby Ridge and the deadly siege at Waco.

Good luck defending that policy. I know Obama is your boy and all but the was an illconceived, poorly ran operation that ended in disaster. Even a hack like you can see that.

Oh, just FYI, not saying any PGR guns were involved :whiste: but over 40 people have died in Mexican drug gang wars in the last 24 hours.

 

[Jhhnn]

Stupid post is stupid without links. Who said US weapons aren't being used? You're sidestepping the issue here.

Here they are raving about their freedumbs, Big Brother, & teh ebil Obama-

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2161686&highlight=cartel

Anybody who thinks that the attempt to track guns to the Cartels had any realistic effect on the flow of American guns into Mexico is a mindless twit, intent on maintaining denial on that level and countless others. Even they know that, but do it anyway, seemingly as a self satisfying circle jerk.

 

[boomerang]

Holder for certain should be brought down. Obama, as a sitting President has his Teflon suit on so nothing will stick. The attempted cover up on this fiasco has been amateurish to date. This video is going to force the administration to move a lot higher up the food chain for their sacrificial lamb.

It will be little more than a resignation, but another 15 to 16 months of Holder will just damage the nation more. We're far better off without him. By the time his replacement gets his legs under him it will be time for the changing of the guard.

The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry.

 

[ProfJohn]

The video is a little weak. Obama will just claim that he was not aware of that part of gun runner etc etc.

Holder might have a harder time. Time to bring Holder to the House and make him talk to congress about this and see what happens.

 

[JSt0rm]

The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry.

well the only good to come of this is to realize that our gun stores are selling guns to cartels. At least now we will be able to shut down a huge number of these people.

 

[xj0hnx]

well the only good to come of this is to realize that our gun stores are selling guns to cartels. At least now we will be able to shut down a huge number of these people.

Huge number of which people? The guns stores were told by the government to continue selling them guns, after they reported the sales. Moron.

 

[irishScott]

..

 

[irishScott]

well the only good to come of this is to realize that our gun stores are selling guns to cartels. At least now we will be able to shut down a huge number of these people.

Many of whom were told to do so after consulting the ATF.

http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/atf-told-gun-stores-to-arm-drug-cartels-121461039.html

Two of the gun stores involved were Carter's Country in Houston and J&G Gun Sales in Prescott, Ariz., Fox News reports.

"Let me tell you something about Carter's Country. They have been cooperating with ATF from the get-go," says Carter's Country attorney Dick Deguerin. "They were told to go through with what they considered to be questionable sales. They were told to go through with sales of three or more assault rifles at the same time or five or more 9mm guns at the same time or a young Hispanic male paying in cash. It's all profiling, but they went through with it."

 

[Craig234]

The OP does not show what he claims to.

First, Project Gunrunner is a larger project in place to deal with this gun trade - it's had 1,400 people charged.

This one project that's controversial is one small part of it.

The OP is confused about this, quoting something he doesn't identify the source of that wrongly says Project Gunrunner and 'Fast and Furious' are the same thing.

He posts the incorrect information "Project Gun Runner (Fast and Furious) was launched under the orders of President Barack Obama..."

This has nothing to do with Bush, but Project Gun Runner was created under Bush, as a national program in 2006. The video does not mention "Fast and Furious".

From Wiki:

ATF began Project Gunrunner as a pilot project in Laredo, Texas, in 2005 and expanded it as a national initiative in 2006. Project Gunrunner is also part of the Department’s broader Southwest Border Initiative, which seeks to reduce cross-border drug and firearms trafficking and the high level of violence associated with these activities on both sides of the border.[2]

ATF has determined that the Mexican cartels have become the leading gun trafficking organizations operating in the southwest U.S. and is working in collaboration with other agencies and the Government of Mexico to expand the eTrace firearm tracing software system.[3] eTrace provides web based access to ATF’s Firearms Tracing System to allow law enforcement both domestically and internationally the ability to trace firearms encountered in connection with a criminal investigation to the first recorded purchaser - who may have innocently sold the gun years ago. eTrace allows law enforcement to access their trace results directly (name and address of first purchaser) and offers the ability to generate statistical reports to analyze their trace data to estimate firearms trafficking trends or patterns.

ATF announced a goal to deploy eTrace software to all thirty-one states within the Republic of Mexico. As part of eTrace expansion, ATF continues to provide training to Mexican and Central American countries to ensure that the technology is utilized to a greater extent.[3] Colombia and Mexico were provided with their own in-country tracing centers with full access to ATF firearm registration records. In Colombia, a joint ATF-CNP Center for Anti-Explosives Information and Firearms Tracing (CIARA) opened on December 6, 2006.[4] In Mexico, The National Center for Information, Analysis and Planning in order to Fight Crime (CENAPI) was established in 2003. ATF states these are models for planned future tracing centers throughout Central and South America and the Caribbean Basin.[5] In December, 2009, ATF announced deployment of a Spanish version of eTrace to Mexico, Guatemala and Costa Rica. A planned second phase will release the software to all Spanish-speaking countries with agreements with ATF. In June 2011 congress opened an investigation into project gunrunner against the ATF, as some ATF agents have come forward stating that top heads in ATFE and the Department of Justice instructed the agents to encourage gun stores in the U.S. to sell assault-style weapons to Mexican firearm traffickers.

 

[blackangst1]

The OP does not show what he claims to.

First, Project Gunrunner is a larger project in place to deal with this gun trade - it's had 1,400 people charged.

This one project that's controversial is one small part of it.

The OP is confused about this, quoting something he doesn't identify the source of that wrongly says Project Gunrunner and 'Fast and Furious' are the same thing.

He posts the incorrect information "Project Gun Runner (Fast and Furious) was launched under the orders of President Barack Obama..."

This has nothing to do with Bush, but Project Gun Runner was created under Bush, as a national program in 2006. The video does not mention "Fast and Furious".

From Wiki:

From your own link:

ATF Project Gunrunner has a stated official objective to stop the sale and export of guns from the United States into Mexico in order to deny Mexican drug cartels the firearms considered "tools of the trade". However, since February 2008 under Project Gunrunner, Operations "Fast and Furious", "Too Hot to Handle", "Wide Receiver" and others (all together satirically dubbed "Project Gunwalker"), have done the opposite by ATF permitting, encouraging and facilitating 'straw purchase' firearm sales to traffickers, and allowing the guns to 'walk' and be transported to Mexico.

Same? No. But a branch of, yes.

 

[boomerang]

The video is a little weak. Obama will just claim that he was not aware of that part of gun runner etc etc.

Holder might have a harder time. Time to bring Holder to the House and make him talk to congress about this and see what happens.

Obama has already claimed he was not aware as has Holder. The video is not de facto evidence of either of their involvements, it's just more fuel for the fire. For anyone not following the story, Holder has claimed that he had no knowledge of the operation. His deputy, Ogden is shown in this video contradicting that.

Holder is an ideologue in a position that hinges on dedication to the rule of law. He's performed his job thus far with the overriding theme being social justice whether based in law or not. I understand pretty well why Obama felt he was the right man for the job. It's time to place someone in the position who can perform the job with the best interests of all the people in mind. For that we'll have to wait until 2013. In the interim, Holder needs to go.

On another related note, a thank you to those in the thread that have the patience to point out to our friends on the left the facts surrounding this case. Facts that the leftist branch of the media have failed to report. Facts that our friends on the left had no knowledge of.

 

[guyver01]

Obama's orders launched Fast and Furious

Typical Republican...

Blaming Obama for a mediocre movie.

The Fast & The Furious series began in 2001.. long before Obama was president.

 

[Jhhnn]

Typical Republican...

Blaming Obama for a mediocre movie.

Thanks for the laugh- I needed one...

 

[guyver01]

Thanks for the laugh- I needed one...

LOL
NP.

It was my first response when i saw the Thread Title, even before i read the OP.

 

[Craig234]

Obama has already claimed he was not aware as has Holder. The video is not de facto evidence of either of their involvements, it's just more fuel for the fire. For anyone not following the story, Holder has claimed that he had no knowledge of the operation. His deputy, Ogden is shown in this video contradicting that.

Holder is an ideologue in a position that hinges on dedication to the rule of law. He's performed his job thus far with the overriding theme being social justice whether based in law or not. I understand pretty well why Obama felt he was the right man for the job. It's time to place someone in the position who can perform the job with the best interests of all the people in mind. For that we'll have to wait until 2013. In the interim, Holder needs to go.

On another related note, a thank you to those in the thread that have the patience to point out to our friends on the left the facts surrounding this case. Facts that the leftist branch of the media have failed to report. Facts that our friends on the left had no knowledge of.

Eric Holder video: "The President has confirmed the amount of the Justice Department budget for 2011."

Boomerang: SEE! This incriminating video PROVES that Holder and Obama BOTH KNEW of the organization that did the operation!

The video is not de facto proof of their involvement but it's fuel for the fire!

Obama said he did not know about the operation but this video disproves that!

 

[Darwin333]

Obama has already claimed he was not aware as has Holder. The video is not de facto evidence of either of their involvements, it's just more fuel for the fire. For anyone not following the story, Holder has claimed that he had no knowledge of the operation. His deputy, Ogden is shown in this video contradicting that.

The funniest part was that Holder claimed he had no knowledge of the program AFTER the MSM had been reporting on it for some time. How the hell do you have no knowledge of something like this days after the story makes national news?

 

[loganone]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalp...and-furious-from-our-abc-team-in-phoenix.html

You'd think the government selling thousands of guns to drug cartels which end up killing US agents and citizens and then trying to cover the whole thing up would be a little bigger story. Although I'm sure this isn't Obama's fault in any way, even though the brilliant plan was paid for by his stimulus.

 

[Jhhnn]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalp...and-furious-from-our-abc-team-in-phoenix.html

You'd think the government selling thousands of guns to drug cartels which end up killing US agents and citizens and then trying to cover the whole thing up would be a little bigger story. Although I'm sure this isn't Obama's fault in any way, even though the brilliant plan was paid for by his stimulus.

You learn the false attribution game fast. The govt didn't sell guns to anybody- Southwest gun dealers did, with the knowledge of the BATF. And they legally (theoretically unknowingly) sold many thousands more to straw buyers for the cartels. The only reason these guns can be easily traced is because of cooperation with the BATF. All the rest, not so much.

One good thing about all of this, however, is that the usual mowrons aren't claiming that cartel guns aren't coming from the US. They are.

BATF screwup? Apparently somewhere along the line. The answer, of course, is to cut their budget, along with the Border Patrol, DEA, FBI, & IRS...

Yeh, that'll chasten them, inspire them to do a better job with fewer resources. Hell, if the cartels made peace with each other, concentrated on business, they'd really run rings around law enforcement on both sides of the border because of their enormous resources in cash & personnel.

All brought to us by our own demand for drugs & the chauvinistic hypocrisy surrounding that.

 

[airdata]

Darn... I had a good rant going and accidentally closed the tab !

Here are cliff notes :

War on drugs = total failure

1) Heroin production since 2001 occupation of afghanistan skyrocketed. more pure and cheap than ever. Documented NATO troops giving protection to poppy farmers.

2) Meth production down in US since crack down on over the counter meds. Average people now inconvenienced when buying harmless medication. Meanwhile in mexico, meth production is way up and so are cartel profits.

3) Marijuana : It's 2011. If you have the internet, and you can read, you have no excuse to believe that marijuana should be illlegal so long as alcohol ( 50k+ annual deaths ) and Tobacco ( 440k+ annual deaths ) are widely celebrated in our culture.

4) Cocaine : CIA plane carrying 3.2 tons of cocaine crashes in mexico... LOL

http://djd.newsvine.com/_news/2007/...rashes-in-yucatan-carrying-32-tons-of-cocaine

 

[ProfJohn]

3) Marijuana : It's 2011. If you have the internet, and you can read, you have no excuse to believe that marijuana should be illlegal so long as alcohol ( 50k+ annual deaths ) and Tobacco ( 440k+ annual deaths ) are widely celebrated in our culture.

Legalize marijuana because we legalize other deadly substances... that makes a lot of sense.

 

[soundforbjt]

Legalize marijuana because we legalize other deadly substances... that makes a lot of sense.

Marijuana is not a deadly substance. It's less deadly than alcohol or tabacoo.

 

[theeedude]

You are confusing Obama with Vin Diesel.

 

[Jhhnn]

Legalize marijuana because we legalize other deadly substances... that makes a lot of sense.

Cannabis is easily, very easily, the least harmful recreational psychotropic drug in the world.

I'm sure you won't let facts interfere with the formulation of your opinion, past performance being what it is...