Obama's appointment to the DC appellate court

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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An example on Republican obstructionism. Court vacancies under Obama are UP (unlike Bush), vote times are up.

The DC Appellate court has a vacancy Obama has appointed a woman to. She has the top rating from the Bar - and has so far been waiting 2.5 years, and is still filibustered.

Why? A big reason is that after Republicans got control of that court, considered the most important appellate court in the country, their judges have shifted the law over and over and over in rulings expanding corporate rights and striking down the right of the people and the government to limit pollution or all kinds of other corporate abuses, and they want to keep it tha way.

Under Bush, Republicans said 'every judicial nominee deserves an up or down vote'. Now they are filibustering votes on all kinds of nominees.

Bush appointed some radicals to the court Democras objected to, some were filibusters, nearly all were finally confirmed. A handful that were the worst led Republicans to threaten to get rid of the filibuster. The 'gang of 14' of both parties broke this with an agreement that they all said they would only block a nominee in extreme cases, like ethics violations, and not on ideology, and this allowed Bush's nominees to go forward.

There are still three Republicans out of the gang of 14 in the Senate; all three now voted to filibuster this judge.

It's an example of the extreme abuse. Republicans lose the vote on the consumer finance agency? That's ok, they refuse to approve anyone to head it. Republicans want to beo so radical on guns they refuse to even allow anyone to head the ATF? That's ok, in 2006 they snuck in a provision making the position confirmable in the Senate - and the position has never had anyone confirmed since.

I wonder if the people who are about 'team' and just want to deny all the obstructionism - or defend it as 'helping their team' - have any idea of the facts, or they just don't care.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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Does this person have a name? It's hard to examine an issue without knowing specifics.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
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party above self
party above country

That's where you're being overly simplistic. These people think that by serving the party, they're serving the country, because what's best for the party is what's best for the country. We can of course disagree (and most of us do), but I'm quite sure that all of these obstructionists sincerely believe that what they're doing is better for the country as a whole.

I also agree with others re the filibuster - it needs to go, or be severely restricted. If you're going to use it, then you should be forced to actually occupy the lectern for however many hours it takes. As it currently stands, it's being abused.

Re these judicial appointments, I believe the proper litmus test continues to be whether the candidate has 1) the necessary expertise for the position and 2) is not ethically compromised. Ideology should only be a bar if the candidate's beliefs are completely outside the norms of a democratic society - for example, a judicial nominee who endorses anarchism and doesn't believe in the idea of a justice system at all. This would be quite rare.
 

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
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It shouldn't be removed, it serves an important purpose. The senate is supposed to be more deliberative.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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Does this person have a name? It's hard to examine an issue without knowing specifics.
He gave you a name - Obama. This is all you need to know. :D

It shouldn't be removed, it serves an important purpose. The senate is supposed to be more deliberative.
Agreed in principle, but what has happened is that filibustering is now strategic rather than tactical, so that a nominee's chance of being filibustered has far less to do with the nominee than with whatever else is being considered - or simply pissing off the minority party. I'd suggest two things. First, severely limit the filibuster, so that a filibustering Senator or Senators must actually hold the floor, can only discuss the nominee, treaty or bill in question, and establish an upper time limit for Constitutionally mandated votes such as nominees, treaties, budgets and appropriations bills. Second, for non-Constitutionally mandated votes establish a separate filibuster forum with a deputy chair hosting while other business proceeds. Congress has clearly devolved into a circus; what's missing is the third ring.

Although full disclosure, I'm all for shutting down the BATFE altogether. Let the FBI take over the legitimate functions of BATFE.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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350
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It shouldn't be removed, it serves an important purpose. The senate is supposed to be more deliberative.

You mean, deliberative, like for the occassional issue that a Senator wants to see discussed more, he can stop the proceedings to force discussion on it?

Like the way the reformers wanted to return the filibuster to instead of what it has become, a way for obstructionists to block everything without discussion?

So, you're agreeing with me, while posting in a tone as if you are disagreeing, because you didn't understand what's going on with filibuster abuse?

You do understand that there hasn't been 2.5 years deliberating about this nominee?

That there hasn't been 7 years deliberating about the nominee for the ATF?

That the abuse is obstructionism, not discussion?

That Rand Paul's talking filibuster this month was the first one since Bernie Sanders in 2010, which was the first one in a long time, out of several hundred a year?
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
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Bush appointed some radicals to the court Democras objected to, some were filibusters, nearly all were finally confirmed. A handful that were the worst led Republicans to threaten to get rid of the filibuster. The 'gang of 14' of both parties broke this with an agreement that they all said they would only block a nominee in extreme cases, like ethics violations, and not on ideology, and this allowed Bush's nominees to go forward.

The GoP doesn't have a problem with making agreements with Democrats. It's just when Democrats expect the compromise to be 50/50 when there is a problem. If they would just settle for a 100/0 compromise none of this would be an issue.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
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The GoP doesn't have a problem with making agreements with Democrats. It's just when Democrats expect the compromise to be 50/50 when there is a problem. If they would just settle for a 100/0 compromise none of this would be an issue.

In January, Pew did a poll asking voters if they like a politician 'who makes compromises with people they disagree with'.

36% of Republicans said yes; 59% of Democrats; 53% of Independants.

Now, I'm not a fan of excessive compromise, but those are the different opinions between the parties.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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So suppose the situation was different. What if this was during a Republican administration and the president was trying to maneuver a judge into position that would further deregulate corporations and read the Constitution to invalidate any law restraining a president's ability to engage in war? Should the Democrats let it pass?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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This week, another of Obama's judicial nominees was approved 91-0 after waiting for 484 days when filibustered.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Oct 30, 2000
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This week, another of Obama's judicial nominees was approved 91-0 after waiting for 484 days when filibustered.

Seems like the system is working.

They are getting approved after the oppositions' point has been made.

Where in the Senate rules and/or constitution is a duration defined for the amount of time an action has to be done.

Any timeline can always be ignored by Congress and/or the president without consequence.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,254
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Seems like the system is working.

They are getting approved after the oppositions' point has been made.

Where in the Senate rules and/or constitution is a duration defined for the amount of time an action has to be done.

Any timeline can always be ignored by Congress and/or the president without consequence.

You think an almost 500 day delay for an uncontroversial nominee for a single judicial vacancy is a sign of the system working? Really?
 

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
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You think an almost 500 day delay for an uncontroversial nominee for a single judicial vacancy is a sign of the system working? Really?

People have become so accustomed to dysfunction in the legislative branch that they dont even know it when they see it. This once great country is going to be slowly brought to it's knees due to it's inability to effectively govern itself.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,746
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Seems like the system is working.

They are getting approved after the oppositions' point has been made.

Where in the Senate rules and/or constitution is a duration defined for the amount of time an action has to be done.

Any timeline can always be ignored by Congress and/or the president without consequence.

Well the length of time used to be how long one person could continue talking...they no longer need to talk to filibuster so...

Almost 500 days for a 91-0 vote? What was the point they were making, do you know?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Oct 30, 2000
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Well the length of time used to be how long one person could continue talking...they no longer need to talk to filibuster so...

Almost 500 days for a 91-0 vote? What was the point they were making, do you know?

Have not investigated the "reason" for this one.

Maybe Obama looked at McConnel wrong???
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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You think an almost 500 day delay for an uncontroversial nominee for a single judicial vacancy is a sign of the system working? Really?

Unintended consequences; collateral damage?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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You think an almost 500 day delay for an uncontroversial nominee for a single judicial vacancy is a sign of the system working? Really?

Seems long to me. But I'm also guessing that if they take this responsibility seriously they must review all the judges previous rulings and works etc. I would think that could take quite a while, but 500 days seems extreme.

Fern
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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350
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Seems long to me. But I'm also guessing that if they take this responsibility seriously they must review all the judges previous rulings and works etc. I would think that could take quite a while, but 500 days seems extreme.

Fern

The time was not spend 'reviewing all the judge's previous rulings'. There's not some change now where every judge is filibustered to they can check them.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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Well the length of time used to be how long one person could continue talking...they no longer need to talk to filibuster so...

Almost 500 days for a 91-0 vote? What was the point they were making, do you know?
After almost 500 days for a 91-0 vote, it's hard to imagine their point was still significant.

Have not investigated the "reason" for this one.

Maybe Obama looked at McConnel wrong???
:D To quote Early Cuyler: "He cut his eyes at me! What would you have done?"
 
Feb 10, 2000
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Seems like the system is working.

They are getting approved after the oppositions' point has been made.

Where in the Senate rules and/or constitution is a duration defined for the amount of time an action has to be done.

Any timeline can always be ignored by Congress and/or the president without consequence.

How can this be construed as the system "working"? Judicial vacancies need to be filled because the American people have the right to justice in criminal and civil matters, and are, after all, footing the bill for the courts. This kind of grandstanding BS by the Senate GOP caucus is the opposite of the system "working."