Obamacare Nukes New York With Massive Taxes

BarrySotero

Banned
Apr 30, 2009
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New York Post today has an article about how NY will be bludgeoned under Obamacare.


"Congressional plans to fund a massive health-care overhaul could have a job-killing effect on New York, creating a tax rate of nearly 60 percent for the state's top earners and possibly pressuring small-business owners to shed workers.

New York's top income bracket could reach as high as 57 percent -- rates not seen in three decades -- to pay for the massive health coverage proposed by House Democrats this week.

For New York City residents, it would be closer to 59 percent, the highest in the nation. "

No keep in mind this is all going on at same time as the state fiasco where they are going broke and looking at 4 billion in new taxes - and the "crisis" is still new.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07..._empire_sta_179547.htm


Obamacare is a bad idea at anytime but choking this down the nations throat at time is a catastrophe for economy. Obama doesn't care about the economy though and he doesnt care about health. This charade is a power grab plain and simple.


Investors Business Daily highlights this power ploy today in an editorial about something they found in the House bill:

"It's Not An Option"

"Congress: It didn't take long to run into an "uh-oh" moment when reading the House's "health care for all Americans" bill. Right there on Page 16 is a provision making individual private medical insurance illegal.

The provision would indeed outlaw individual private coverage. Under the Orwellian header of "Protecting The Choice To Keep Current Coverage," the "Limitation On New Enrollment" section of the bill clearly states:

"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day" of the year the legislation becomes law...

From the beginning, opponents of the public option plan have warned that if the government gets into the business of offering subsidized health insurance coverage, the private insurance market will wither...

What wasn't known until now is that the bill itself will kill the market for private individual coverage by not letting any new policies be written after the public option becomes law.

The legislation is also likely to finish off health savings accounts, a goal that Democrats have had for years. They want to crush that alternative because nothing gives individuals more control over their medical care, and the government less, than HSAs.

The public option won't be an option for many, but rather a mandate for buying government care. A free people should be outraged at this advance of soft tyranny.

Washington does not have the constitutional or moral authority to outlaw private markets in which parties voluntarily participate. It shouldn't be killing business opportunities, or limiting choices, or legislating major changes in Americans' lives.

It took just 16 pages of reading to find this naked attempt by the political powers to increase their reach. It's scary to think how many more breaches of liberty we'll come across in the final 1,002."

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/I...spx?id=332548165656854


Obama lies when he says people can keep their private insurance because he knows private insurance will get nuked. Obama and Democrats are all about killing the economy and slashing freedom for sake of their own power.




 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
If that is for real that is a big wool over our eyes attempt by Obama and the Democrats.

 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
106
omg how can such vile creatures be voted into office!

we need an exorcism.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
ok..your a nut and just finding anything you can th at shows A negitive light on Obama (even if its a stretch). your starting to sound like the nutcase's with a hardone for BUSH.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,530
6,701
126
Eskimo thinks BS is a fraud poster, that nobody could be that nuts. I'm beginning to think he might be on to something. Maybe he's a recruiter for the KKK or some such looking for folk who buy into this shit. Or maybe he works for the NSA to spot possible wackos in the general population. I don't know but he sure seems to be more than professionally psycho, he's gifted.
 

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
5,922
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Eskimo thinks BS is a fraud poster, that nobody could be that nuts. I'm beginning to think he might be on to something. Maybe he's a recruiter for the KKK or some such looking for folk who buy into this shit. Or maybe he works for the NSA to spot possible wackos in the general population. I don't know but he sure seems to be more than professionally psycho, he's gifted.

Sp now if someone posts something against Obama's healthcare plans they are KKK members? Sigh..
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,457
9,678
136
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Eskimo thinks BS is a fraud poster, that nobody could be that nuts. I'm beginning to think he might be on to something. Maybe he's a recruiter for the KKK or some such looking for folk who buy into this shit. Or maybe he works for the NSA to spot possible wackos in the general population. I don't know but he sure seems to be more than professionally psycho, he's gifted.

Sp now if someone posts something against Obama's healthcare plans they are KKK members? Sigh..

Makes sense, everyone who opposes socialism is a right wing terrorist.
 

SammyJr

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2008
1,708
0
0
They want to crush that alternative because nothing gives individuals more control over their medical care, and the government less, than HSAs.

Bullshit. Control over your medical care is when you can work with your doctor to get the treatment you need, regardless of cost or ability to pay. HSAs don't help achieve that goal, except for those who can afford to pay out of pocket anyway.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,530
6,701
126
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Eskimo thinks BS is a fraud poster, that nobody could be that nuts. I'm beginning to think he might be on to something. Maybe he's a recruiter for the KKK or some such looking for folk who buy into this shit. Or maybe he works for the NSA to spot possible wackos in the general population. I don't know but he sure seems to be more than professionally psycho, he's gifted.

Sp now if someone posts something against Obama's healthcare plans they are KKK members? Sigh..

Makes sense, everyone who opposes socialism is a right wing terrorist.

The only sense it makes is to you and the other idiot.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Is this real? I google some key words and it's on there but not on any big news sites.

I've said as have many that public and private cannot co-exist in the way being told to us. I have also reminded that in Canada it is already patently illegal for a private clinic to offer the vast majority of health care, and so regardless of your wealth you get stuck with the same system as everybody else whether you like it or not*

In regard to NY, despite actually being in this state and subject to its taxation, I am compelled in part to laugh at it because it's hysterically inept. Recently the budget for 2010 was passed with a 9% increase (really). This despite the previous budget being a failure and requiring a vast amount of new taxes. The state's population is already stagnant due to its souring business climate. Perhaps they want to shrink it even more, and will be successful doing so.

*You can always pay for a plane ticket to the US, as many do, and get better coverage down here

Unfortunately, waggy and moonbeam appear thusfar unable to respond to the post in any meaningful form.
 

BarrySotero

Banned
Apr 30, 2009
509
0
0
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Eskimo thinks BS is a fraud poster, that nobody could be that nuts. I'm beginning to think he might be on to something. Maybe he's a recruiter for the KKK or some such looking for folk who buy into this shit. Or maybe he works for the NSA to spot possible wackos in the general population. I don't know but he sure seems to be more than professionally psycho, he's gifted.

Sp now if someone posts something against Obama's healthcare plans they are KKK members? Sigh..

Makes sense, everyone who opposes socialism is a right wing terrorist.

It's reality that terrorizes them - a reason they fell so hard for Obama's bait and switch. Its even more painful for them to have to see how wrong they were with each passing week as Obama chucks one harpoon after another into the country.

Remember when Obama was like "oh no new taxez - rebates for 105% of you - free health care! paid tuition!.. openness and freedom and dialogue!"

Now its taxes all over the place (cap and charade, VAT, Income, health insurance penalties via IRS) bum rushed legislation with 300 extra pages in final hours - it's a disaster.

They could redeem themselves helping to stop health care, cap and charde but they are kind of emotionally locked-up and childish.
 

JKing106

Platinum Member
Mar 19, 2009
2,193
0
0
"Rangel and his House Democratic colleagues want to begin voting as soon as this week on a plan to raise the federal income-tax rate by 5.4 percentage points on individuals with incomes above $800,000 and couples earning more than $1 million, and by 1 to 1.5 percentage points on individuals with incomes starting at $280,000, all effective in 2011."

They can afford it. I'm looking forward to BarrySweetie's next daily commentary on Limbaugh's opinion tomorrow.
 

TheSkinsFan

Golden Member
May 15, 2009
1,141
0
0
The provision would indeed outlaw individual private coverage. Under the Orwellian header of "Protecting The Choice To Keep Current Coverage," the "Limitation On New Enrollment" section of the bill clearly states:

"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day" of the year the legislation becomes law..."

Hmmm, I'd love to hear an explanation of that text by one of its authors...

PDF of current House bill here

The text in question:
SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT
COVERAGE.


(a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE DEFINED.
Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term ??grandfathered health insurance coverage?? means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:

...(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.

......(A) IN GENERAL. Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.

......(B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PERMITTED. Subparagraph (A) shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.

Does that mean that all current private insurance will be referred to as "Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage"?

If so, that doesn't bode well at all. :(
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Is this real? I google some key words and it's on there but not on any big news sites.

I've said as have many that public and private cannot co-exist in the way being told to us. I have also reminded that in Canada it is already patently illegal for a private clinic to offer the vast majority of health care, and so regardless of your wealth you get stuck with the same system as everybody else whether you like it or not*

In regard to NY, despite actually being in this state and subject to its taxation, I am compelled in part to laugh at it because it's hysterically inept. Recently the budget for 2010 was passed with a 9% increase (really). This despite the previous budget being a failure and requiring a vast amount of new taxes. The state's population is already stagnant due to its souring business climate. Perhaps they want to shrink it even more, and will be successful doing so.

*You can always pay for a plane ticket to the US, as many do, and get better coverage down here

Unfortunately, waggy and moonbeam appear thusfar unable to respond to the post in any meaningful form.

The city should really sever ties with the state. You guys can keep the bronx :p
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Eskimo thinks BS is a fraud poster, that nobody could be that nuts. I'm beginning to think he might be on to something. Maybe he's a recruiter for the KKK or some such looking for folk who buy into this shit. Or maybe he works for the NSA to spot possible wackos in the general population. I don't know but he sure seems to be more than professionally psycho, he's gifted.

Sp now if someone posts something against Obama's healthcare plans they are KKK members? Sigh..

Makes sense, everyone who opposes socialism is a right wing terrorist.

Socialism? LOL! You fools have no idea what socialism is. You throw it around like a boogeyman.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Eskimo thinks BS is a fraud poster, that nobody could be that nuts. I'm beginning to think he might be on to something. Maybe he's a recruiter for the KKK or some such looking for folk who buy into this shit. Or maybe he works for the NSA to spot possible wackos in the general population. I don't know but he sure seems to be more than professionally psycho, he's gifted.

Sp now if someone posts something against Obama's healthcare plans they are KKK members? Sigh..

Makes sense, everyone who opposes socialism is a right wing terrorist.

Socialism? LOL! You fools have no idea what socialism is. You throw it around like a boogeyman.
That doesn't even make sense, do you realize how heavy the average boogeyman is? I defy you to even lift one.

In any case, it's possible to DL this bill but mine failed at 99%.

There is a lot of legal mumbo in that bill. Can anybody defend the assertions of the first post properly without instead attacking the OP?

 

TheSkinsFan

Golden Member
May 15, 2009
1,141
0
0
OK, the text of the bill, in the same section, goes on to read:

(c) LIMITATION ON INDIVIDUAL HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE.
...(1) IN GENERAL.?Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered health insurance coverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan.

...(2) SEPARATE, EXCEPTED COVERAGE PERMITTED. Excepted benefits (as defined in section 2791(c) of the Public Health Service Act) are not included within the definition of health insurance coverage. Nothing in paragraph (1) shall prevent the offering, other than through the Health Insurance Exchange, of excepted benefits so long as it is offered and priced separately from health insurance coverage.

So, it looks like what they're doing is not necessarily cutting off all private insurance enrollment. Instead, they're making it mandatory for said insurance companies to become authorized members of the mysterious Health Insurance Exchange.

If I'm reading this correctly, all current offerings would have a five-year grace period in which to become members of the Exchange.

IOW, it's not as Orwellian as the OP makes it sound, but it's certainly well on its way to becoming a 100% Federal Government-controlled system.

After all, what's to stop the government from barring every private company from joining the Exchange?
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,002
115
106
The article does make valid points about moving to a UHC system. Most of these are quite frankly parroted concerns from the GOP, and will end up not being nearly as big of a deal if/when a UHC system is passed.

Considering the issue from another perspective, what talking points would come from any other country with a UHC system currently (of any form) considering a move to a US-style system? They would put our current fears (as well as those in the article) to shame.

Sure, the move to a more universal system will be painful. However, staying with what we have now is economic suicide over the long-term. The sooner we take care of this, the better. The status quo has proven itself to be a failure for too many, for too long. If this is the price, so be it.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Originally posted by: JKing106
"Rangel and his House Democratic colleagues want to begin voting as soon as this week on a plan to raise the federal income-tax rate by 5.4 percentage points on individuals with incomes above $800,000 and couples earning more than $1 million, and by 1 to 1.5 percentage points on individuals with incomes starting at $280,000, all effective in 2011."

They can afford it. I'm looking forward to BarrySweetie's next daily commentary on Limbaugh's opinion tomorrow.

If you make $1 million, you pay $9,000 more in taxes. Less than 1% of their income. Oh the deprivations of the well off! How will they manage? Cut off their contributions to the Republican party?:thumbsup::D
 

BarrySotero

Banned
Apr 30, 2009
509
0
0
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
The article does make valid points about moving to a UHC system. Most of these are quite frankly parroted concerns from the GOP, and will end up not being nearly as big of a deal if/when a UHC system is passed.

Considering the issue from another perspective, what talking points would come from any other country with a UHC system currently (of any form) considering a move to a US-style system? They would put our current fears (as well as those in the article) to shame.

Sure, the move to a more universal system will be painful. However, staying with what we have now is economic suicide over the long-term. The sooner we take care of this, the better. The status quo has proven itself to be a failure for too many, for too long. If this is the price, so be it.

There is no effort for tort reform and other issues leading to higher costs. Obama's health care is about grabbing huge chunk of economy, union influence, medical records etc and building government into peoples lives - citizens and illegals

Consider Obama is also trying to hijack medicare payments

Obama Eyes The Purse Strings for Medicare

"At the same time President Obama is asking members of Congress to take one of the most politically difficult votes of their careers, he is also pressing lawmakers to give up one of their most valued perks of office: boosting Medicare payments to benefit hometown providers.

Setting reimbursement rates for local hospitals, doctors, home health-care centers and other providers is a legislative ritual that amounts to one of the most effective and lucrative forms of constituent service. Delivering federal money through Medicare, the country's largest insurance program, can be a powerful tool on the campaign trail, allowing lawmakers to argue that they are creating jobs and improving the quality of health care for voters.

Obama administration officials say they are determined to stem soaring Medicare spending, arguing that it is a root cause of the broader health-care crisis that they are trying to address with Congress. Behind the scenes, Obama is pushing for a mechanism that would take Medicare payment authority out of the hands of politicians and invest it in a separate entity, possibly under the executive branch.

"Structures that fundamentally alter the long-term costs are a must for real health-care reform," said White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. He called the Medicare payment debate "the least talked-about, most important issue on the table."

House Democrats' health-care proposal, released Tuesday, includes no measures aimed at reversing the long-term cost trajectory of Medicare, a fact that spurred a rebellion among conservative Blue Dog Democrats on the Energy and Commerce Committee, which will begin debate on the House bill today. Rep. Mike Ross (Ark.), a Blue Dog leader and panel member, told reporters yesterday that he has the votes to defeat the package unless it is "substantially amended" to address long-term cost concerns."

http://mobile.washingtonpost.c...412117&rc=to&p=1&all=1


It's all about the power
 

geno

Lifer
Dec 26, 1999
25,074
4
0
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Sp now if someone posts something against Obama's healthcare plans they are KKK members? Sigh..

Have you seen Barry's other posts? This isn't one isolated thread we're talking about here. You're not summarizing the situation fairly.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
13,475
10,922
136
Originally posted by: geno
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Sp now if someone posts something against Obama's healthcare plans they are KKK members? Sigh..

Have you seen Barry's other posts? This isn't one isolated thread we're talking about here. You're not summarizing the situation fairly.

Bingo
 

BudAshes

Lifer
Jul 20, 2003
13,983
3,330
146


I for one think alot of what we have now pretty much sucks and could be a whole lot better. Change may be bad or good but it is necessary no matter how scared you are.
 

BarrySotero

Banned
Apr 30, 2009
509
0
0
Originally posted by: BudAshes


I for one think alot of what we have now pretty much sucks and could be a whole lot better. Change may be bad or good but it is necessary no matter how scared you are.

Things have purposely been allowed to suck so that they got so bad people would take what was offered - which is big, oppressive, command/control gov disguised as a free benefit. Haha.