Obamacare is actually reducing health care rationing

[theeedude]

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2015-01-15/obamacares-actually-reducing-healthcare-rationing

The number of people who put off medical care because of cost declined by 14 million in 2014, compared with two years earlier

Awesome numbers, but real people's health behind it.

 

[master_shake_]

the comments on that page....

mother of god.

 

[Genx87]

Gee what could have happened from 2 years ago besides Obamacare?

Notice how we are at about the same rate as 05? What happened between 2005 and 2010 that could had increased this rate?

 

[theeedude]

Gee what could have happened from 2 years ago besides Obamacare?

Notice how we are at about the same rate as 05? What happened between 2005 and 2010 that could had increased this rate?

What specifically are you talking about that you think accounts for it if not Obamacare.

 

[pcgeek11]

Chart looks to be cherry picked. Lots of years missing between 2005 and 2010.

 

[nickqt]

Chart looks to be cherry picked. Lots of years missing between 2005 and 2010.

This chart isn't favorable to conservatives, so surely the data was cherry-picked.

Clearly the amount of Americans delaying medical care dropped substantially in the years no delineated on the chart, because liberals hate Amurica. Duh.

 

[UberNeuman]

This chart isn't favorable to conservatives, so surely the data was cherry-picked.

Clearly the amount of Americans delaying medical care dropped substantially in the years no delineated on the chart, because liberals hate Amurica. Duh.

How to annoy a conservative - present facts....

 

[pcgeek11]

How to annoy a conservative - present facts....

Cherry picking facts is still dishonesty by omission.

 

[nickqt]

Cherry picking facts is still dishonesty by omission.

Claiming that facts have been cherry-picked without providing any evidence of cherry-picking: Conservative Logic 101

Also: Benghazi.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Or could it be due to those who work for self insured employers who are accelerating the time line to getting procedures done before 2018 when the ACA will affect self insured employer plans? I know I plan on getting one knee replaced in June and other late December this year while I still have a low deductible/low max out of pocket plan.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Okey doke.

First and most important the writer doesn't know (and apparently no one else does here, at least so far) that this isn't "rationing". I suggest people read up on WWII when there were rationing coupons for gas. Obamacare doesn't ration. The system before doesn't ration. Why? Because the system isn't beyond capacity and what practitioners are allowed to do hasn't changed much.

Rationing will start when as the MIT expert in the news recently said when people are denied the services they want in order to save money. If the much desired Congressional politically controlled health care program kicks in then you will have rationing and complicated bureaucracy, because that's what we do.

 

[Jaskalas]

I'd like to view all the missing years since 2003, to see what impact the economy had on that.

 

[allisolm]

Chart looks to be cherry picked. Lots of years missing between 2005 and 2010.

Only thing that happened between 2005 and 2010 is that the numbers went up from 64 million to 75 million.

 

[theeedude]

Okey doke.

First and most important the writer doesn't know (and apparently no one else does here, at least so far) that this isn't "rationing". I suggest people read up on WWII when there were rationing coupons for gas. Obamacare doesn't ration. The system before doesn't ration. Why? Because the system isn't beyond capacity and what practitioners are allowed to do hasn't changed much.

Rationing will start when as the MIT expert in the news recently said when people are denied the services they want in order to save money. If the much desired Congressional politically controlled health care program kicks in then you will have rationing and complicated bureaucracy, because that's what we do.

People denying health services to themselves in order to save money or because they can't afford them is a form of rationing, just by individual and not the government. More people are getting health care they need under Obamacare, that's the bottom line.
Rejection by insurance for pre-existing condition is rationing too. Pre-Obamacare, insurance was rejecting high cost patients to save money. Obamacare opponents did nothing about it.

 

[unokitty]

Tax the middle class to provide a health care subsidy for the lower class.

Lie repeatedly to the public to get the program passed.

Survey shows that people that get government subsidy like it...

Meanwhile, middle class keeps shrinking...

Call that a victory if you want. But to me it looks like politics as usual...

Uno

 

[theeedude]

Tax the middle class to provide a health care subsidy for the lower class.

Lie repeatedly to the public to get the program passed.

Survey shows that people that get government subsidy like it...

Meanwhile, middle class keeps shrinking...

Call that a victory if you want. But to me it looks like politics as usual...

Uno

Medicaid enrollment grew by 10% 2013-2014 in reality, but stayed flat in Gallup land.

 

[OverVolt]

The ACA clearly hasn't solved problems of cost and access to health care in the U.S. By Commonwealth's estimate, 66 million people still reported forgoing medical care they couldn't afford. While the proportion was nearly twice as high for the uninsured, 28 percent of people who were covered all year still said they couldn't afford the care they need.

There you go again with GWB's mission accomplished banner. I suppose you didn't read the whole thing before cheerleading it or are just that desperate and "not a decrease" warrants a celebration?

 

[OverVolt]

People denying health services to themselves in order to save money or because they can't afford them is a form of rationing, just by individual and not the government. More people are getting health care they need under Obamacare, that's the bottom line.
Rejection by insurance for pre-existing condition is rationing too. Pre-Obamacare, insurance was rejecting high cost patients to save money. Obamacare opponents did nothing about it.

I'm going to smack you.

Anyway I saw this comment

"...a survey by the Commonwealth Fund, a foundation that supports broader access to health care."...Are polls by various agenda-driven organizations the only sources of reporting of so-called "metrics" of the ACA, i.e. "Obamacare"? There are polls out there that espouse the exact opposite. Policyholders are delaying care due to the high deductibles, lack of choice of providers and other financial reasons. How about some hard and fast numbers from the Feds in charge of this debacle?

So I thought that was interesting and here is what the commonwealth fund has been responsible for

Providing timely information about the law's reforms and the status of their implementation.

Tracking enrollment and people’s experiences with the new insurance options.

Evaluating the effects of insurance reforms and state and federal innovation on the extent and quality of health coverage, access to health care, changes in employer-based coverage, affordability of premiums and out-of-pocket costs, health plan competition, innovation in insurance markets, and sustainability of the insurance marketplaces.

Analyzing and developing national and state short-term policy solutions to address implementation issues as they arise.

Identifying gaps in the law and its implementation that may leave some groups of people without coverage or adequate protection from costs.

So lols. Almost all the numbers that come from this place I disagree with. Like enrollment. It enrolled me without ever asking for my CC. I clicked through the federal exchange to the state exchange as was suggested and the federal exchange won't stop emailing me about how I never signed up for coverage and need to ASAP even though I have my insurance card in my hand. Also lols. I had to put in extra effort so it would actually cover me and charge me. Kinda funky. I bet people who never pay are counted as enrolled. Seems like alot of the last-second we-can-make-whatever-law-up-we-want-to stuff comes from the commonwealth fund. Like when they randomly said you could extend a non-ACA plan through 2014. It was super sketch, but I did it. Their satisfaction numbers seem to be bullshit. Nobody I know personally likes their plans, but 84% are satisfied? I don't get it. Are they counting the people who got onto expanded medicare via the health exchange? That would be good for some people.

Lets just say the commonwealth fund doesn't hold as much weight as gallop in my mind.

 

[schmuckley]

Wait until the other shoe drops next year.Then you will see what Obamacare really is.

 

[OverVolt]

Chart looks to be cherry picked. Lots of years missing between 2005 and 2010.

Only thing that happened between 2005 and 2010 is that the numbers went up from 64 million to 75 million.

Source seems to be cherry picked :awe:

 

[theeedude]

Wait until the other shoe drops next year.Then you will see what Obamacare really is.

Republican predictions coming true is always just around the corner. Obamacare is going to crash and burn, you just wait. We'll find a replacement for it, you just repeal it and be patient. Tax cuts will trickle down, any time now. We'll find those WMD's you just watch and see. All this stimulus is going to create inflation in just a few months. Etc Etc. And the dupes keep falling for it.

 

[Genx87]

What specifically are you talking about that you think accounts for it if not Obamacare.

Really? Like 2008 and the economic recession that happened doesnt exist?

You dont think that the numbers skipping went up from 2005 to 2010 because of the economy crashing? And now that the economy is coming back the % skipping is also dropping with it? No no clearly Obamacare.

 

[werepossum]

Or could it be due to those who work for self insured employers who are accelerating the time line to getting procedures done before 2018 when the ACA will affect self insured employer plans? I know I plan on getting one knee replaced in June and other late December this year while I still have a low deductible/low max out of pocket plan.

That's a fair point, but sure there are fewer people delaying care now that Obamacare added so many people onto the rolls of the ensured by moving their cost to others and to borrowed money. While some people lost insurance due to Obamacare, that number surely isn't nearly as large as those who gained insurance. And surely those people who dropped insurance due to Obamacare (which includes subsidies up to 400% of the poverty line) would largely have reworked their priorities to keep insurance if they were anticipating significant health care needs.

Okey doke.

First and most important the writer doesn't know (and apparently no one else does here, at least so far) that this isn't "rationing". I suggest people read up on WWII when there were rationing coupons for gas. Obamacare doesn't ration. The system before doesn't ration. Why? Because the system isn't beyond capacity and what practitioners are allowed to do hasn't changed much.

Rationing will start when as the MIT expert in the news recently said when people are denied the services they want in order to save money. If the much desired Congressional politically controlled health care program kicks in then you will have rationing and complicated bureaucracy, because that's what we do.

That's valid and I agree, but it's a technicality. We want as little delay of necessary health care as is practical, regardless of cause. There's a lot of things to dislike about Obamacare, but the number of people unable to get necessary health care isn't one of them.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

People denying health services to themselves in order to save money or because they can't afford them is a form of rationing, just by individual and not the government. More people are getting health care they need under Obamacare, that's the bottom line.
Rejection by insurance for pre-existing condition is rationing too. Pre-Obamacare, insurance was rejecting high cost patients to save money. Obamacare opponents did nothing about it.

By that loose definition everything can have the label of rationing. Don't want a hamburger today? Ration. Not buying a new car? Ration. Sun not shining? God is rationing. Government insurance not paying for something? Rationing!

Like I said real rationing starts once one entity get's complete and irrevocable and all powerful control. It's not happening now, but not everyone in every case is getting everything they want all the time, whether it's good or not. Bad medicine being rationed.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

That's valid and I agree, but it's a technicality. We want as little delay of necessary health care as is practical, regardless of cause. There's a lot of things to dislike about Obamacare, but the number of people unable to get necessary health care isn't one of them.

Not arguing about having desirable outcomes like more people being able to get coverage. That was always part of my idea of real health care reform. I do however much dislike the idea that rationing is occurring. The Republicans cried about that and it didn't happen because that's not how the system works the overwhelming majority of the time and until circumstances change it's not going to. If services ever are cut then you will have rationing then because people are just going to have to wait. Note that does not include unneeded services, but what if you needed an MRI in medical opinion and once were able to get it but due to funding cuts you have to wait a long time for a proper test? That would be rationing. Let's hope that's a while in coming.