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Obama will win the Democratic Nomination.

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nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: FoBoT
Originally posted by: loki8481
..he'd have to get caught on bestiality tape or something
i don't think that would be a problem for liberals, they are ok with anything that is "victimless"
Because PETA votes Republican?
they love animals.
he loves animals. ;)
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
The question now becomes is this: will Hillary go aggressively on the offensive and attempt to weaken Obama's momentum going into Texas and Ohio...will she further weaken the Democrats, or cause the party to divide, all in the name of winning the nomination?

Her campaign hired "Doctor Death" a political manager fear for opposition researc efforts. Of course, that intel is turned into attack ads etc. he came on the same time as Maggie Smith, I've read he is heading up the TX effort personally. Looks to me like they'll go "tough" before they go away. Remember too, that many of these political operatives working for her are looking forward to important jobs in the White House.

Here is the danger for the Democrats...McCain is sitting by the sidelines right now, and working to build a coalition of support among fiscal conservatives and the religious right...a tough task to be sure, but a necessary one, and an effort he can focus on without having to simultaneously dodge bullets from a Democrat contender...the tight race between Obama and Hillary is giving McCain something he desperately needs...time to refine his platform for the General Election.

He's gonna need Billary's help to win the WH.


I don't think Hillary can defeat Obama at this point without some major political shenanigans, or running a Swift Boat type campaign against Obama...we have already seen attempts by the Clinton machine to divert this campaign towards dirty politics.

What if she follows the course of attempting to capture Obama's pledged delegates...or bring the superdelegates into play...or continue to argue for the inclusion of Michigan's and Florida's delegates at the DNC...none of these avenues will benefit the Democrats going into the General Election, but they are all paths Hillary could pursue if she chooses to place her candidacy above her party.

^ They've already started doing all of these, including targeting Obama's pledged delegates.
Fern
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Barring some unforeseen development (and it'd have to be a major one) I think Obama has both the Dem nomination and the Presidency wrapped up.

Move along now folks, it's all over but the crying.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
The question now becomes is this: will Hillary go aggressively on the offensive and attempt to weaken Obama's momentum going into Texas and Ohio...will she further weaken the Democrats, or cause the party to divide, all in the name of winning the nomination?

Her campaign hired "Doctor Death" a political manager fear for opposition researc efforts. Of course, that intel is turned into attack ads etc. he came on the same time as Maggie Smith, I've read he is heading up the TX effort personally. Looks to me like they'll go "tough" before they go away. Remember too, that many of these political operatives working for her are looking forward to important jobs in the White House.

Here is the danger for the Democrats...McCain is sitting by the sidelines right now, and working to build a coalition of support among fiscal conservatives and the religious right...a tough task to be sure, but a necessary one, and an effort he can focus on without having to simultaneously dodge bullets from a Democrat contender...the tight race between Obama and Hillary is giving McCain something he desperately needs...time to refine his platform for the General Election.

He's gonna need Billary's help to win the WH.


I don't think Hillary can defeat Obama at this point without some major political shenanigans, or running a Swift Boat type campaign against Obama...we have already seen attempts by the Clinton machine to divert this campaign towards dirty politics.

What if she follows the course of attempting to capture Obama's pledged delegates...or bring the superdelegates into play...or continue to argue for the inclusion of Michigan's and Florida's delegates at the DNC...none of these avenues will benefit the Democrats going into the General Election, but they are all paths Hillary could pursue if she chooses to place her candidacy above her party.

^ They've already started doing all of these, including targeting Obama's pledged delegates.
Fern
they have not targeted Obama's pledged delegates.
 

Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
3,074
0
76
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: loki8481
consider me on record as ***OFFICIALLY*** counting her out :p

even if she wins Ohio and Texas, she's not going to win by substantial margins, and the super delegates are not going to swing en mass to support the candidate faring the worst in head-to-head match-ups vs the republican nominee (even if such polls are more or less useless at this point)
That's pretty much my take, too.

She would now need to perform a clean sweep on March 4, and not only that, she would need large margins. 60/40 or better, in Ohio AND Texas, and even then she wouldn't be close enough.
And thats why if she wins Ohio and Texas, she will try to have Florida and Michigan count. Thus, giving her the nomination.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
Originally posted by: Corbett
And thats why if she wins Ohio and Texas, she will try to have Florida and Michigan count. Thus, giving her the nomination.
You really think she can win both by 20 point margins? :laugh:
 

sportage

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2008
9,657
1,602
126
Yes, maybe he will win.
And McCain will dissect him inch by inch.
And there we go, another 4 years of republican rule,
not to mention foreclosures galore, layoffs like you've never seen
since the 1030's, and no one able to get/afford any type of healthcare.
Your employer will no longer offer it, it would bankrupt them to do so.

And that war, 4 more years of that war.

At least "maybe" people will forget why they hated Hillary so much,
and she can run again in 2012.
 

Rio Rebel

Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,194
0
0
Obama has been through the fires of a national campaign before, and yes, that's a weakness.

But have you pictured what the debates will look like when Obama faces off with McCain? Hillary is nowhere near the speaker Obama is, but she held her own because of her mastery of the issues. Obama is going to annihilate McCain in the debates. That is enough to offset any inexperience Obama has.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,993
5,039
126
I am a Democrat, and I'd rather elect McCain to continue destroying the GOP than vote for that demagogue Obama. McCain is a nice liberal RINO, kind of like Arnold S. here in CA.
I don't see what Obama can deliver that McCain can't, plus there is added benefit that McCain fracture the GOP and Republicans will continue getting blamed for everything wrong with this country. So with McCain we get to have our cake and eat it too.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
Originally posted by: senseamp
I am a Democrat, and I'd rather elect McCain to continue destroying the GOP than vote for that demagogue Obama. McCain is a nice liberal RINO, kind of like Arnold S. here in CA.
I don't see what Obama can deliver that McCain can't, plus there is added benefit that McCain fracture the GOP and Republicans will continue getting blamed for everything wrong with this country. So with McCain we get to have our cake and eat it too.
Spoken like the true partisan hack you are. :thumbsup:
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
Obama has been through the fires of a national campaign before, and yes, that's a weakness.

But have you pictured what the debates will look like when Obama faces off with McCain? Hillary is nowhere near the speaker Obama is, but she held her own because of her mastery of the issues. Obama is going to annihilate McCain in the debates. That is enough to offset any inexperience Obama has.
unless McCain comes across as honest and Obama's charm makes people think of him as a used car salesman.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
The debates will be fun, indeed.

At least we won't be debating Days Of Our Lives circa 1998. And we're all better off for that.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Rio, that depends, are Americans smart enough to actually hear a debate about issues or just a bunch of sweet talk? If sweet talk and avoiding issues is the key to a presidency then yeah, Obama has an edge, if they need answers and CLEAR answers, then he hasn't got a shot in hell.

In a British election, he'd be toast a long time ago, he keeps making statements about what he would like but whenever asked on the reality instead of what he would like, he always backs down from his earlier position, which is wise in itself but the point is, he should have thought about that before he made the statement in the first place.

I can't wait until our next election.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: senseamp
I am a Democrat, and I'd rather elect McCain to continue destroying the GOP than vote for that demagogue Obama. McCain is a nice liberal RINO, kind of like Arnold S. here in CA.
I don't see what Obama can deliver that McCain can't, plus there is added benefit that McCain fracture the GOP and Republicans will continue getting blamed for everything wrong with this country. So with McCain we get to have our cake and eat it too.
Spoken like the true partisan hack you are. :thumbsup:
Seriously. Sensamp this is not a fvcking football game. You want more of what the last 8 years has been just to spite the gop? Please don't vote.
In a British election, he'd be toast a long time ago
Not sure the Brits are really qualified to opine on proper government these days, given where you guys are allowing the once great England to go. It rhymes with pitter but starts with an sh.

 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: senseamp
I am a Democrat, and I'd rather elect McCain to continue destroying the GOP than vote for that demagogue Obama. McCain is a nice liberal RINO, kind of like Arnold S. here in CA.
I don't see what Obama can deliver that McCain can't, plus there is added benefit that McCain fracture the GOP and Republicans will continue getting blamed for everything wrong with this country. So with McCain we get to have our cake and eat it too.
Spoken like the true partisan hack you are. :thumbsup:
Seriously. Sensamp this is not a fvcking football game. You want more of what the last 8 years has been just to spite the gop? Please don't vote.
In a British election, he'd be toast a long time ago
Not sure the Brits are really qualified to opine on proper government these days, given where you guys are allowing the once great England to go. It rhymes with pitter but starts with an sh.
I'm sorry, son, but the Great Britain stands out in successfulness in comparison, what is the dollar now, 1/10'th of a £? Our businesses are doing great, we've taken over the financial headquarter of the world, used to be in the US, now it's in London, our expenses are lower than ever, our unemployment rate is getting lower by the day.

I'm not going to debate the greatness of the USA compared to GB, everyone who knows shit about me knows that i do admire the USA and especially the people in the forces knows that i am very supportive of the USA, the troops and it's people.

You got a shitty deal with an admin that fucked everything up, i have no doubt you can turn it around though, it wouldn't be the first time either and you can bet on one thing, GB will never cease to be an ally, whether you need us or not, unfortunantly Blair took that a tad bit too far, maybe if our stupid arse Prime Minister hadn't been part of the stupidity about the Iraq lies this wouldn't have happened, i think Blair is to blame as much as Bush in that case, but Blair is gone now.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,031
66
91
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: senseamp
I am a Democrat, and I'd rather elect McCain to continue destroying the GOP than vote for that demagogue Obama. McCain is a nice liberal RINO, kind of like Arnold S. here in CA.
I don't see what Obama can deliver that McCain can't, plus there is added benefit that McCain fracture the GOP and Republicans will continue getting blamed for everything wrong with this country. So with McCain we get to have our cake and eat it too.
Spoken like the true partisan hack you are. :thumbsup:
Seriously. Sensamp this is not a fvcking football game. You want more of what the last 8 years has been just to spite the gop? Please don't vote.
In a British election, he'd be toast a long time ago
Not sure the Brits are really qualified to opine on proper government these days, given where you guys are allowing the once great England to go. It rhymes with pitter but starts with an sh.
Boy, as it happens I just spent a week in England, and I couldn't disagree more. The country is really thriving, and on balance I'd say the average Briton is definitely doing better than the average American.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
Boy, as it happens I just spent a week in England, and I couldn't disagree more. The country is really thriving, and on balance I'd say the average Briton is definitely doing better than the average American.
I don't think he was referring to the standard of living, Don. I'm thinking it was more along the lines of the 'surveillance society' and some of the trends there.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,031
66
91
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
Boy, as it happens I just spent a week in England, and I couldn't disagree more. The country is really thriving, and on balance I'd say the average Briton is definitely doing better than the average American.
I don't think he was referring to the standard of living, Don. I'm thinking it was more along the lines of the 'surveillance society' and some of the trends there.
He's going to have to be more specific, then. I don't think Americans have any standing to criticize the governance of any other western nation, if we're going to take the attitude that people in poorly-governed countries can't criticize other governments.
 

naddicott

Senior member
Jul 3, 2002
793
0
76
Originally posted by: senseamp
I am a Democrat, and I'd rather elect McCain...
I don't see what Obama can deliver that McCain can't.
Supreme Court Justices. As many as 3 are expected to be appointed in the next 8 years, mostly replacing liberal-leaning justices.

McCain promised in the California debates to nominate more justices like Scalia. That killed any of his "moderate appeal" for me.

This next election isn't just about the next 4 years, it's about the balance of philosophies (or lack thereof) on our highest court for the next ~20.

I expect for this reason, conservatives/liberals with any long-term vision will "come home" in November, regardless of their short-term concerns about their candidates. If McCain manages to tear down Obama Republican style and win the presidency, especially after the abysmal performance of Bush, the resulting heavily conservative leaning Supreme Court will be a major coup for the conservative movement.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
18,344
10,221
136
50% of the country voted for Bush twice, so I wouldn't be citing them as the epitome of good judgment.

While I get your what your saying, I believe "Bush's Mandate" was in the 30%-35% area. Not trying to nitpick, just saying there aren't that many retards in the country. ;)

 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
Boy, as it happens I just spent a week in England, and I couldn't disagree more. The country is really thriving, and on balance I'd say the average Briton is definitely doing better than the average American.
I don't think he was referring to the standard of living, Don. I'm thinking it was more along the lines of the 'surveillance society' and some of the trends there.
Well, we're not doing it in secrecy and bypassing any laws because Brown didn't find a need to do so.

There are cams pretty much everywhere, like at ATM's, parking lots, you know, not as many as in the US but still, a lot of them.

The tapes are constant but never watched unless there is a crime committed, you know, like in the US.

What we DON'T have is "no knock warrants" or "warantless wiretaps".

We can't haul away citizens to an off shore camp to be tortured to death either or just held indefinently without charges, just can't do that shit in England, it's kind of against the law.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
1
0
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
Boy, as it happens I just spent a week in England, and I couldn't disagree more. The country is really thriving, and on balance I'd say the average Briton is definitely doing better than the average American.
I don't think he was referring to the standard of living, Don. I'm thinking it was more along the lines of the 'surveillance society' and some of the trends there.
Well, we're not doing it in secrecy and bypassing any laws because Brown didn't find a need to do so.

There are cams pretty much everywhere, like at ATM's, parking lots, you know, not as many as in the US but still, a lot of them.

The tapes are constant but never watched unless there is a crime committed, you know, like in the US.

What we DON'T have is "no knock warrants" or "warantless wiretaps".

We can't haul away citizens to an off shore camp to be tortured to death either or just held indefinently without charges, just can't do that shit in England, it's kind of against the law.
Unless you're a minority. Then you're just executed on the spot as the London police showed the world.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
Boy, as it happens I just spent a week in England, and I couldn't disagree more. The country is really thriving, and on balance I'd say the average Briton is definitely doing better than the average American.
I don't think he was referring to the standard of living, Don. I'm thinking it was more along the lines of the 'surveillance society' and some of the trends there.
Well, we're not doing it in secrecy and bypassing any laws because Brown didn't find a need to do so.

There are cams pretty much everywhere, like at ATM's, parking lots, you know, not as many as in the US but still, a lot of them.

The tapes are constant but never watched unless there is a crime committed, you know, like in the US.

What we DON'T have is "no knock warrants" or "warantless wiretaps".

We can't haul away citizens to an off shore camp to be tortured to death either or just held indefinently without charges, just can't do that shit in England, it's kind of against the law.
Unless you're a minority. Then you're just executed on the spot as the London police showed the world.
Well, i'll just ignore that, shooting a suspect not willing to stop on site isn't a thing a US citizen should ever complain about, we've had enough threads about US cops shooting grandmas and children as it is, have we not?

Answer the other thread and show me which Rwandans who are not being extradited to the Haag court.

Of course, now you're going to run, run, run.... right?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: senseamp
I am a Democrat, and I'd rather elect McCain to continue destroying the GOP than vote for that demagogue Obama. McCain is a nice liberal RINO, kind of like Arnold S. here in CA.
I don't see what Obama can deliver that McCain can't, plus there is added benefit that McCain fracture the GOP and Republicans will continue getting blamed for everything wrong with this country. So with McCain we get to have our cake and eat it too.
Spoken like the true partisan hack you are. :thumbsup:
Seriously. Sensamp this is not a fvcking football game. You want more of what the last 8 years has been just to spite the gop? Please don't vote.
In a British election, he'd be toast a long time ago
Not sure the Brits are really qualified to opine on proper government these days, given where you guys are allowing the once great England to go. It rhymes with pitter but starts with an sh.
Boy, as it happens I just spent a week in England, and I couldn't disagree more. The country is really thriving, and on balance I'd say the average Briton is definitely doing better than the average American.
Well obviously a lot of Brits would disagree with me, too, whereas a lot of the ones who see where its laws are going would agree with me. I was born there and thank my lucky blessings my parents got us out when they did. I don't see the country as thriving. I see it as crowded, ungodly expensive, and despondent, which is how a lot of the people see it as well.

If you've ever seen Pink Floyd's the wall, it's a bit like that sometimes over there. Not so much hyperbole in that as one would wish :)
What we DON'T have is "no knock warrants" or "warantless wiretaps".
You do have a multitude of new nanny laws and queen mom knows best, not to mention the ever empowering hold a person for 30 days without charge. And I'm not defending where the US is going with its laws. The Bush admin has turned back time for this country and some of the people cheer him for it.
We can't haul away citizens to an off shore camp to be tortured to death either or just held indefinently without charges, just can't do that shit in England, it's kind of against the law.
Well, not exactly. Although the US has the embarrassement of Gitmo, it's still not legal for a citizen to be hauled away without charge--at least not on the books (God knows what really happens in some cases)--but it is on the books in the UK.

I suppose at the end of the day we could both argue all day long which country is introducing new and idiotic ways to monitor its population/steal freedoms. At least, we still can for now :)
 

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