Obama wants community college to be free "for those willing to work for it"

[zinfamous]

I'm with you on the grade point. I think at least a 2.5-3.0. I also think it should be with degrees only in certain fields ie RN, Dental Hygienist, Air Traffic Controller, Radiation Therapist, Nuclear Technician etc... The community service is just a feel good attachment. Some of the programs I mention have lab and clinical requirements that should more than satisfy that component.

I like this. Paying for a free communications studies degree doesn't do anything for anyone. The only way this is actually useful to the society paying for it, is if the learned skills are in turn valuable to society.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I don't get why people like to denigrate community colleges so much. What exactly are they? For a transfer program, they are just your first two years of college. How many people fail out of their first year? A lot.

And let's not forget you have quite a few professional programs that have pretty strict requirements. They also result in some very good jobs (RNs, dental hygienists etc). You also don't get into those programs automatically either.

Now, if you want to complain about people getting generic liberal arts degrees for free, then by all means, go for it. We don't need more basket weavers. The whole 'work smarter not harder' needs to stop being warped into the whole idea that working with your hands is bad.

Where in my post did I say anything against community college?

I fully stand up for community college as someone that took it for my first 2 years instead of wasting 2 years of full university paid $. Why not get the same shit for less money? You must have misunderstood. Don't get me wrong though, it is easy classes to get a 2.0 requirement. Thus my point of a 2.0 requirement being a joke. They have tiny scholarships with 3.0 or 4.0 requirements and you want the entire thing paid for on a 2.0? Get bent.

 

[HomerJS]

How about waiting for more details before starting the bash parade??

I believe "work for it" was in the same sentence.

 

[Strk]

Where in my post did I say anything against community college?

I fully stand up for community college as someone that took it for my first 2 years instead of wasting 2 years of full university paid $. Why not get the same shit for less money? You must have misunderstood. Don't get me wrong though, it is easy classes to get a 2.0 requirement. Thus my point of a 2.0 requirement being a joke. They have tiny scholarships with 3.0 or 4.0 requirements and you want the entire thing paid for on a 2.0? Get bent.

The last sentence comes off that way. This post makes me think we're in agreement though.

 

[Dulanic]

Seriously, how many high school students do you know that actually value their education? Unless things have changed since I was in school, most kids are there for sports, socializing, or whatever else they can find to do while they're putting up with being forced to be there. It's a small minority of students that actually care about studying.

Keep in mind that lots of these people who you're claiming value their free high school come out of that high school and need to take remedial courses in college. And these are the college bound kids, much less those that don't go to college.

Americans do not value education, giving it to them for free doesn't seem to increase their appreciation for it. It's a cultural problem, not a financial one.

Big difference though, kids have to go to school, but there is no requirement for college.

Not saying there isn't any cultural problem, there is. But, this isn't the same as a forced system like the rest of school.

 

[BoberFett]

What's wrong with separating out the smart kids from the dumb ones?

Instead of assuming you know my position on something and adding yet another straw man to a thread, just ask me where I stand (because I know you want to know)

Nothing wrong with that, it's just not the way we do things here in the US. Everybody is a special snowflake and the word discrimination is evil. Germany discriminates against large groups of students. You don't want to discriminate do you?

 

[BoberFett]

And yet it has been that way since, forever. Still, out of that system, we created people that cured Polio, sequenced the Human Genome, went to the damn moon, and gave us Chuck 'E Cheezes.

And how many people actually went to college forever ago? College used to be the exception. Now it's the expectation. There are lots of reasons for that change, but handing out college educations doesn't fix that. As the saying goes, we'll have the most educated burger flippers in the world. Give away higher and higher levels of school, the expectation becomes higher and higher. Degree inflation. We're already seeing that a bachelor's is the standard and you have to have a master's to stand out. How long until a master's elicits yawns from hiring managers?

It's bandaids all the way down.

 

[ivwshane]

Nothing wrong with that, it's just not the way we do things here in the US. Everybody is a special snowflake and the word discrimination is evil. Germany discriminates against large groups of students. You don't want to discriminate do you?

Unless it's unfair descrimination or based on illegal descrimination or the expected outcome is based on junk science, I have no problem with descrimination in this circumstance.

 

[BoberFett]

Big difference though, kids have to go to school, but there is no requirement for college.

Not saying there isn't any cultural problem, there is. But, this isn't the same as a forced system like the rest of school.

Yes and no. Find any number of discussions about college being the new high school. Technically optional, unless you want a job.

This thread ties in with the other current thread about AI and automation. Humans are being expected to meet ever higher standards for lesser and lesser jobs. Technology is awesome. Education is a wonderful thing. But at some point it's all going to come crashing down, and I don't think society will be ready for it.

 

[BoberFett]

Unless it's unfair descrimination or based on illegal descrimination or the expected outcome is based on junk science, I have no problem with descrimination in this circumstance.

Fair enough, I can respect that. Just don't be surprised if a large number of people disagree when their precious snowflake can't go to college.

 

[ivwshane]

Fair enough, I can respect that. Just don't be surprised if a large number of people disagree when their precious snowflake can't go to college.

I try to rule my life through logic and science, I really couldn't give a rats ass what people think about my views. I will justify them or change them if I have to based on logic and facts. Being wrong is merely part of the journey of ridding my ignorance

 

[LegendKiller]

It's actually not a bad idea.

1. It's *MUCH* easier to get somebody into a CC to begin coursework. They can adjust to college, take crap courses, and find out if they can hack it.

2. Paying a couple grand per year out of pocket without recourse is *MUCH* cheaper than paying 20,000/yr to fund student loans that have recourse but are almost impossible to college. You can't squeeze blood from a rock.

3. The #1 reason for defaulting on student loans is failure to finish. Thus, the combination of 1&2 come into play. You don't waste 20-40k on students who will fail anyway, you don't create a debt slave, and you save society a decent amount of money.

4. You get the states to fund part of it. Close purse strings are *MUCH* better than the Fed just funding it through student loans.

There are a ton more beneficial points to this.

 

[fskimospy]

That wasn't the moral of the story you criticized. It was about value placed on things a person receives for free.

Can you explain the point then? If high school is free and effective, but not valued, who gives a shit?

 

[Slew Foot]

Could be a decent program, up the GPA a bit, restrict it to non stupid majors, and make it available to anyone who wants it, and its not a bad idea.

 

[BoberFett]

Can you explain the point then? If high school is free and effective, but not valued, who gives a shit?

I give a shit. You should give a shit. We spend a lot of money on it, and with shitty results. You yourself constantly compare our healthcare to Europe, why not our education? Throwing more money at healthcare doesn't make it better, nor does throwing money at education. Yet you advocate one while bemoaning the other. So you should give a shit, but you don't. It's what I've come to expect from you though. You pretend to be rational and fact based, but in the end you just toe the party line.

 

[Mai72]

I love the idea of going to college for free.

I don't like the idea that someone is going to have to pay for it, and it's going to be the taxpayers. Maybe we could trim the military budget by a few percents, so we could make this a reality?

 

[sportage]

So silly. The math never adds up.
I.e. either paying for everyone to have healthcare, or, paying the uninsured ER bills.
Which one of the two costs YOU more would ya think?

And as mentioned, paying for some education, or tossing money away paying for their welfare and food stamps. Which mind you, funding their public assistance lasts a lot longer that a typical college course.

 

[CWRMadcat]

Cheap college isn't the answer. We're better off re-examining K-12 education so that our society can have some assurance that a high school diploma is actually worth a damn. Too many people are going to college as it is.

 

[Mai72]

Let's start with our military budget. We could shed a few billion and the military wouldn't even feel it.

 

[ivwshane]

Cheap college isn't the answer. We're better off re-examining K-12 education so that our society can have some assurance that a high school diploma is actually worth a damn. Too many people are going to college as it is.

Let's start with our military budget. We could shed a few billion and the military wouldn't even feel it.

I see no reason why we can't do both! Well there is one reason why...congress

 

[Black Octagon]

Let's start with our military budget. We could shed a few billion and the military wouldn't even feel it.

+1million. You Americans could have had Eden on earth years ago were it not for the sheer scale of your military spending

 

[compuwiz1]

I'm a typically hard bucking Republican, in most fiscal areas. I fail to see how this is a problem. I actually like the idea. If we can have a public school system that goes from k-12, why not have a public school system that goes k-14. Good grades should be a requirement. It should be earned based on GPA, no handouts for poor performance. That said, I can see the benefits. When it comes to kids, I'm a push over.

 

[JEDIYoda]

It is, but there are a lot of families that make too much to qualify for grants or student aid but maybe not enough to afford college. Everyone who want to should get the chance to go to college. We aren't exactly busting at the seams with manufacturing jobs anymore. I might up the work requirement, but I like this.

I totally agree!! While were at it we also send the illegal aliens to college so that when they become legal they can immediately contribute to our society!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

I don't like the idea that someone is going to have to pay for it, and it's going to be the taxpayers. Maybe we could trim the military budget by a few percents, so we could make this a reality?

are you always so misinformed??

 

[OverVolt]

Well there goes the quality education I got at community college down the drain for future generations.