Obama to unveil bail out on student loans

[TheVrolok]

So what would actually happen?

Who is to say for sure? I gave a similar theory a few posts above. I certainly can't predict the future, or say with any complete certainty what would happen, but I can give you some of my own thoughts.

 

[Howard]

Who is to say for sure? I gave a similar theory a few posts above. I certainly can't predict the future, or say with any complete certainty what would happen, but I can give you some of my own thoughts.

Well, yeah, the end result is that less people would go to post-secondary.

Is that necessarily a bad thing?

 

[TheVrolok]

Well, yeah, the end result is that less people would go to post-secondary.

Is that necessarily a bad thing?

Yes, I think it could be. As the fewer people going to post-secondary would be poorer people, not necessarily people less deserving. Should one be entitled to a better opportunity at college simply because he is born into wealth?

 

[PeshakJang]

Should one be entitled to a better opportunity at college simply because he is born into wealth?

Should the rest of us have to pay for somebody else's opportunities simply because they were born into poverty?

 

[TheVrolok]

Should the rest of us have to pay for somebody else's opportunities simply because they were born into poverty?

Yes, I think so.

 

[Ronstang]

Poverty is $22350, so 150% is $33525. I make $36500, so my "discretionary income" is about $3000. I get to pay $450 a year? That basically gives me $1000 extra to live on. It would make a big difference.

But you are a loser who picked a useless major, took out student loans to pay for it, and now you don't make much money because you made stupid choices. Neither I or the rest of the useful taxpayers had any say in the decisions that has resulted in your mediocre life so why do we now get to pay the consequences?

 

[MagickMan]

Yes, I think so.

Fine, move to Denmark.

Next.

 

[Patranus]

Yes, I think it could be. As the fewer people going to post-secondary would be poorer people, not necessarily people less deserving. Should one be entitled to a better opportunity at college simply because he is born into wealth?

You don't need a college degree to be a secretary.
You don't need a college degree to become a carpenter.
You don't need a college degree to become an A/C technician.
You don't need a college degree to work a support desk.

I would ballpark that more than 70% of jobs don't require a college degree. We need to stop pushing people to college when in it pointless.

 

[TheVrolok]

Fine, move to Denmark.

Next.

Why? I didn't say pay everything, but I believe some government assistance is fine for those who are disadvantaged and have earned it.

 

[Patranus]

Should the rest of us have to pay for somebody else's opportunities simply because they were born into poverty?

If you make choices to stay impoverished then no.

 

[TheVrolok]

You don't need a college degree to be a secretary.
You don't need a college degree to become a carpenter.
You don't need a college degree to become an A/C technician.
You don't need a college degree to work a support desk.

I would ballpark that more than 70% of jobs don't require a college degree. We need to stop pushing people to college when in it pointless.

I agree with all of these statements completely, and I don't see how it in any way disagrees with what you have quoted. Unless of course you're implying that those born into poorer families, even though perhaps more deserving than a wealthier born counterpart, should be happy to forgo additional education and work at "lower-end" jobs.

 

[sunzt]

The bright spot for the unemployed is that the monthly payments are based on any income above 150% of the poverty line. For a graduate living alone, the payments would be on 15% of any dollars made above $16,335, based on the 2011 poverty line.

so... if a graduate made 35k yr he would pay $1,867 a year or $156 month for 20yrs for a total of $37,330. The amount of loans borrowed + interest over 20 yrs need to be >= $37,330k for profit. That's not a bad deal and would only require a relatively small loan for profitability...

However, if you were an engineer and made 65k a year then you need to pay 4,866/yr or 405/month for 20 yrs for a total of $97,330.... So you had to borrow a lot of money for this to be profitable....

In short, this program only benefits people with currently low incomes. It doesn't mean that those low income people took out $100k of loans though. You could have taken 30k in loans as in the first example and still benefit if you don't make enough current income.

In the end, if you asked the student if they'd be rather making 65k vs 35k the answer would still be 65k.

 

[Jaepheth]

Most college degrees aren't for teaching people what they need to know to perform their function. It shows an employer that the person is teachable and willing to work within a hierarchy.

This is now necessary because a high school diploma no longer implies these qualifications.

 

[Infohawk]

How do you "pressure" the institutions to make them lower tuition?

Market forces, of course. If there were no federal loans right now, far fewer people would be going to school. Schools would have to become cheaper to get students and would likely do so by focusing on actual teaching than focusing on facilities and the like. Seriously, some science and engineering courses aside, most programs just need a freaking room and a teacher and once you get past high school, a lot of subjects can be taught online (people should basically know how to teach themselves after high school).

 

[Infohawk]

No. The problem is the perception that every should go to college.

I don't disagree that that's an issue too (in fact I agree it is) but it's a separate issue from most schools and students these days wasting money on things that are not really central to learning and testing. We shouldn't be pushing morons to go to college but we also shouldn't be getting in the way of smart people from getting affordable educations either.

 

[charrison]

How do you "pressure" the institutions to make them lower tuition?

Lets first stop matching tuition costs with federally back loans! They increase together in lockstep as .edus have figured out this great way to get revenue.

There was a study done that said UT austin could cut it tuition in half if the lowest 80% of profs were are productive as the top 20% of profs. There is plenty of fat to be cut in academia.

 

[charrison]

Most college degrees aren't for teaching people what they need to know to perform their function. It shows an employer that the person is teachable and willing to work within a hierarchy.

This is now necessary because a high school diploma no longer implies these qualifications.

Actually it is heading in the direction where many course just need place for you plop your butt down in front of a computer.

 

[Throckmorton]

But you are a loser who picked a useless major, took out student loans to pay for it, and now you don't make much money because you made stupid choices. Neither I or the rest of the useful taxpayers had any say in the decisions that has resulted in your mediocre life so why do we now get to pay the consequences?

What? You might have me confused with somebody else. I have a degree in geography and valuable skills. I made the mistake of leaving the private sector for public service in local government (feds get paid much more and get automatic step increases). I also have a part time job at a surveying company... I'm just waiting for work from a Navy contract. Yes my major was so useless

Maybe I should have majored in "business" so I could be contributing zero to society instead.

 

[PrinceofWands]

now i'm going to be paying off the loans of stupid History majors who borrowed $100k at a $30k/yr school.

Just want to stand up for the History majors who were smart enough to NOT take out much loan debt. Of course I didn't take any out for Education, Mathematics, Chemistry, Computer Science, or Administration of Justice either, so maybe I'm not a proper comparison.

 

[Jaepheth]

Actually it is heading in the direction where many course just need place for you plop your butt down in front of a computer.

And when that becomes the norm then a masters degree will be required to get an entry level position.

 

[charrison]

And when that becomes the norm then a masters degree will be required to get an entry level position.

As long as education is 1/10 the cost it is now, I dont see a real issue with that.

 

[Throckmorton]

now i'm going to be paying off the loans of stupid History majors who borrowed $100k at a $30k/yr school.

I don't want to pay for them either, but keep in mind a lot of people have been going to college who shouldn't have been, because high school counselors have been pounding it into their heads that they have to go to college. Not to mention their parents who were convinced by "the system" that college is necessary. Of course they ended up getting stupid useless degrees.

 

[Infohawk]

And when that becomes the norm then a masters degree will be required to get an entry level position.

As long as education is 1/10 the cost it is now, I dont see a real issue with that.

Right as long as people are learning it shouldn't matter how cheap or quick and easy it is. That's why I'm a fan of standardized test. It doesn't matter if you went to a school with a fancy coat of arms or what race you are. You either know the material or not.

 

[Jaepheth]

As long as education is 1/10 the cost it is now, I dont see a real issue with that.

You keep delaying people growing up by doing that.

You end up with a nation of old children who make childish decisions.

The current setup is already producing an extended adolescence.

We need people capable of making important decisions based on real life experience and able to face tough decisions. We're already seeing what happens when many, many people start all making bad decisions at once.

We need the majority of people living in the real world, not academia.

 

[charrison]

You keep delaying people growing up by doing that.

You end up with a nation of old children who make childish decisions.

The current setup is already producing an extended adolescence.

We need people capable of making important decisions based on real life experience and able to face tough decisions. We're already seeing what happens when many, many people start all making bad decisions at once.

We need the majority of people living in the real world, not academia.

Education is needed for everyone. IF you no no skills, you wont get a good job. Yes the current setup is broken, but education can be made far more affordable than it is now.