Obama to treat illegal drug abuse as a health issue - Fox article

[blackangst1]

I love this:

The new drug plan encourages health care professionals to ask patients questions about drug use even during routine treatment so that early intervention is possible. It also helps more states set up electronic databases to identify doctors who are overprescribing addictive pain killers.

So the government is going to be the authority on what is enough and what is too much. Got it.

Other than that, I like the approach. Focus on prevention rather than punishment. Abstinence for drug use

 

[DesiPower]

With our extremely high recidivism rates that would seem not to be an effective motivator.

The Drug War is a titanic failure by every rational metric by which it can be measured and it costs us billions to boot. It doesn't work, never did work, and never will work.

There are lot of things we spend billions on which have to cure or solution.

War against terror - does it have an end? no, it does not, one day our country will go bankrupt and fall apart and the troops overseas will scramble to come back home, govt will not even have enough resources to bring them home and some of them might just settle where they are coz there might be no point in coming back home - want more details - read Fall of Rome.

Welfare/entitlement - We spend billions on feeding sheltering clothing and now treating the poor ppl being imported by our politicians with no end in sight. Less and less ppl are paying taxes and entitlement keeps increasing. eventually inflation will blow through the roof and what govt provides will stay the same, welfare checks will be worthless.

So what should be do? stop the war today, stop entitlement today, if you answer is no when why stop war on drugs? If we do, wont it just spread more drugs more easily and infest whatever is left of our future even sooner?

 

[xj0hnx]

I love this:



So the government is going to be the authority on what is enough and what is too much. Got it.

Other than that, I like the approach. Focus on prevention rather than punishment. Abstinence for drug use

This is actually nothing new, the DEA has been prosecuting doctors that it feels are over prescribing for years now. The DEA needs to stay out of doctors way. I realize there have been some doctors that over prescribed for a living, knowing there was diversion going on, especially in Florida, but it has caused doctors all across America to leave patients who actually need high doses of pain killers to function out in the cold.

 

[K1052]

There are lot of things we spend billions on which have to cure or solution.

War against terror - does it have an end? no, it does not, one day our country will go bankrupt and fall apart and the troops overseas will scramble to come back home, govt will not even have enough resources to bring them home and some of them might just settle where they are coz there might be no point in coming back home - want more details - read Fall of Rome.

Welfare/entitlement - We spend billions on feeding sheltering clothing and now treating the poor ppl being imported by our politicians with no end in sight. Less and less ppl are paying taxes and entitlement keeps increasing. eventually inflation will blow through the roof and what govt provides will stay the same, welfare checks will be worthless.

So what should be do? stop the war today, stop entitlement today, if you answer is no when why stop war on drugs? If we do, wont it just spread more drugs more easily and infest whatever is left of our future even sooner?

False Dilemma + Red Herring

 

[xj0hnx]

There are lot of things we spend billions on which have to cure or solution.

War against terror - does it have an end? no, it does not, one day our country will go bankrupt and fall apart and the troops overseas will scramble to come back home, govt will not even have enough resources to bring them home and some of them might just settle where they are coz there might be no point in coming back home - want more details - read Fall of Rome.

You can not win a war against a tactic. the WoT™ was a calculated move to push a political agenda.

Welfare/entitlement - We spend billions on feeding sheltering clothing and now treating the poor ppl being imported by our politicians with no end in sight. Less and less ppl are paying taxes and entitlement keeps increasing. eventually inflation will blow through the roof and what govt provides will stay the same, welfare checks will be worthless.

End it.

So what should be do? stop the war today, stop entitlement today, if you answer is no when why stop war on drugs? If we do, wont it just spread more drugs more easily and infest whatever is left of our future even sooner?

Ignorant at best. If the WoD™ is doing more damage to the civilian population than good, than yes, it needs to be stopped. And pretty much every single place that decriminalized drugs saw a reduction in drug use. The fearmongering that if they are legal they will blow up ignores the reality that they are already blown up, and millions of people are already doing them.

 

[DesiPower]

Ignorant at best. If the WoD™ is doing more damage to the civilian population than good, than yes, it needs to be stopped. And pretty much every single place that decriminalized drugs saw a reduction in drug use. The fearmongering that if they are legal they will blow up ignores the reality that they are already blown up, and millions of people are already doing them.

That's not a very valid argument. First list the place which has decriminalized drugs. I don't know of any and I am not talking about Marry Jane. No society can ever prosper if such lethal drugs which keeps from from thinking straight is readily available. Agreed, there are millions of users, but it would be even worse if there were no control.

 

[K1052]

That's not a very valid argument. First list the place which has decriminalized drugs. I don't know of any and I am not talking about Marry Jane. No society can ever prosper if such lethal drugs which keeps from from thinking straight is readily available. Agreed, there are millions of users, but it would be even worse if there were no control.

These drugs are readily available in the United States, just at inflated prices.

 

[Slew Foot]

As long as junkies dont get a disability check for being stupid, fine.

 

[Moonbeam]

A huge amount of environmental damage and electricity is being used in California by indoor growers. Drug laws are the product of a Fascist State.

People take drugs because they live in pain, the pain of self hate. There will be no cure for drugs until we awaken to the universality of our self hate and that we manifest our self hate in everything we touch. We hate government and government hates us because of only one reason, a reason we do not want to see.

 

[Patranus]

The problem with incarceration is that the "progressives" have created a jail system that allows people to sit on their ass all day.

There is no reason why these people who are in jail shouldn't be forced to work like the good old days and pay for their room and board and contribute to society.

They are the ones who broke the social contract no society.

That being said, this is really a states issue. States are (should be) free to criminalize whatever drug they see fit as long as it is not crossing state lines.

Just look at California. It wasn't to essentially legalize marijuana but cant because the "progressives" think that lack of interstate commerce is somehow interstate commerce and therefore should be regulated by the federal government.

If a state wants to legalize a drug and then pay for the associated costs, nothing should stop them from doing that.

 

[Amused]

For the first time since his election, I can finally say I approve of something President Obama is doing.

It's a step in the right direction, but I hope he remembers the lessons of the welfare queens and projects and does not create more dependency.

The WOD has been an exteremly expensive and utter failure... and has cost us many of our rights. Almost anything is a better approach.

 

[xj0hnx]

That's not a very valid argument. First list the place which has decriminalized drugs. I don't know of any and I am not talking about Marry Jane. No society can ever prosper if such lethal drugs which keeps from from thinking straight is readily available. Agreed, there are millions of users, but it would be even worse if there were no control.

It is 100% valid. I suggest you do some research before making uninformed statements.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/global/drugpolicyby/westerneurop/thenetherlan/
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html <-already posted, apparently ignored.
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2009/03/14/portugal
http://www.drugpolicy.org/library\tlcnr.cfm

Other countries have been trying different approaches with varied success, but all have had better results than our system.

 

[nonlnear]

That's not a very valid argument. First list the place which has decriminalized drugs. I don't know of any and I am not talking about Marry Jane. No society can ever prosper if such lethal drugs which keeps from from thinking straight is readily available. Agreed, there are millions of users, but it would be even worse if there were no control.

But... there IS no control. Is this not obvious?

 

[xj0hnx]

For the first time since his election, I can finally say I approve of something President Obama is doing.

It's a step in the right direction, but I hope he remembers the lessons of the welfare queens and projects and does not create more dependency.

The WOD has been an exteremly expensive and utter failure... and has cost us many of our rights. Almost anything is a better approach.

Completely agree. My problem is that I see it only being a half-assed attempt that will not produce good enough results, and draw fire from opponents based on those half-assed results.

 

[Moonbeam]

That's not a very valid argument. First list the place which has decriminalized drugs. I don't know of any and I am not talking about Marry Jane. No society can ever prosper if such lethal drugs which keeps from from thinking straight is readily available. Agreed, there are millions of users, but it would be even worse if there were no control.

I don't know if you have noticed but most sober people can't think straight either. Your opinions on drugs are an excellent example. Your thinking is paranoid.

Self hate manifests in many ways. One way is to destroy oneself with drugs. Another is to destroy society with morality laws. The answer to drugs is happy children with a real future who can see the difference between self hate and self love.

 

[ayabe]

If sent to prison, they have fear of hell and conviction.

This is based on nothing but your gut and it doesn't jive with reality. Locking up users isn't a disincentive, not even a little bit, otherwise we'd have won the WoD thirty years ago.

Instead every year we have to incarcerate more and more people who are simply users. The sentencing guidelines have been written for the benefit of the prison industry, not based on any real science or an attempt to curb the problem.

The Mexican drug gangs are stronger now than they've ever been before and continue to get stronger each and every day. It's a failed policy that costs us billions and billions of dollars every single year and untold suffering on the bystanders, like the people getting their heads cut off in Juarez.

 

[blackangst1]

This is actually nothing new, the DEA has been prosecuting doctors that it feels are over prescribing for years now. The DEA needs to stay out of doctors way. I realize there have been some doctors that over prescribed for a living, knowing there was diversion going on, especially in Florida, but it has caused doctors all across America to leave patients who actually need high doses of pain killers to function out in the cold.

Hm. Didnt know that.

 

[jacc1234]

This sounds like nothing more then lip service. I like the idea but the budget is basically the same as GWB's.

 

[William Gaatjes]

It is 100&#37; valid. I suggest you do some research before making uninformed statements.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/global/drugpolicyby/westerneurop/thenetherlan/
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html <-already posted, apparently ignored.
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2009/03/14/portugal
http://www.drugpolicy.org/library\tlcnr.cfm

Other countries have been trying different approaches with varied success, but all have had better results than our system.

Be so honest to mention that all drugs except cannabis are illegal in the Netherlands.

EDIT:

The only reason why there have been done heroin experiments is because some addicts where not able to stop. The whole issue is that when an addicts has somewhere in his /hers mind made up that they are never going to stop, they are not going to stop. And that is how the dutch recover program functions. Let the person become aware of their problem. Because that person can only stop using drugs when he or she decides to do so. The point is to make people think what they are doing and that they keep a log of the every day life. Every time they have a set back, get up and think and try again.

If people finally decided to stop using drugs and solve the addiction, the mantra is to not give up. Get up on your feet again and start thinking where did you go wrong.
Keep track of your actions, where did you go, who did you meet, what did you think of, how did you feel. Hidden in all those questions the addicted people will find the trigger. And once they know the trigger, the next step is to prevent that trigger. An example is some addicts who stopped using and cleaned themselves up, felt back because in their neighborhood there where too many triggers to say no. It takes an intelligent approach to prevent people from using or to help people from their addiction. Just legalizing or criminalizing is both not the answer.

When legalizing all drugs, you create a social time bomb. Knowing how man functions and knowing the social structure, some sort of relieve must always be present. And the best way is to use the not addictive onces. Alcohol and cannabis are as history has shown to be the best way.

Particularly in the U.S., there is still widespread support for criminalization approaches and even support for the most extreme and destructive aspects of the "War on Drugs," but, for a variety of reasons, the debate over drug policy has become far more open than ever before. Portugal's success with decriminalization is highly instructive, particularly since the impetus for it was their collective recognition in the 1990s that criminalization was failing to address -- and was almost certainly exacerbating -- their exploding, poverty-driven drug crisis. As a consensus in that country now recognizes, decriminalization is what enabled them to manage drug-related problems far more effectively than ever before, and the nightmare scenarios warned of by decriminalization opponents have, quite plainly, never materialized.

I have been mentioning the bolded text long before. No work is drug use. When a large part of humanity has nothing to do or no hope, they start to go insane or give up on life.

If it was not for the EU and all those EU loans and gifts : No work.

 

[boomerang]

Are you sure that fiscal policy is driven by drug decriminalization policies?

Don't play coy. My point, and you got it, is that we shouldn't emulate the practices of liberal, socialist governments that are failing. I mean we are, but we shouldn't be.

There is nothing in the article quoted in the OP that is new or innovative.

The new drug plan encourages health care professionals to ask patients questions about drug use even during routine treatment so that early intervention is possible. It also helps more states set up electronic databases to identify doctors who are over prescribing addictive pain killers.

Encourages? Well that'll take care of the problem.

Another database that will further scare the medical community into prescribing painkillers for those that truly need them? Another feel-good plan from this administration that appeals to the sensibilities of do-gooders. It's a failure right out of the gate. More money borrowed that we don't have.

 

[Sloper]

FACT:

Treatment is cheaper than incarceration.


I'll vote with my wallet, thanks. Oh yeah, and there's also the utter failure of the war on drugs..

 

[xj0hnx]

When legalizing all drugs, you create a social time bomb. Knowing how man functions and knowing the social structure, some sort of relieve must always be present. And the best way is to use the not addictive onces. Alcohol and cannabis are as history has shown to be the best way.

You refuse to accept, or admit the undeniable fact that prohibition has done absolutely nothing to deter, or slow drug use, or the violence associated with it. All the WoD™ has done is make it worse, infringe on the rights of citizens, and turn a whole population of people into criminals who would otherwise be ordinary citizens.

 

[William Gaatjes]

You refuse to accept, or admit the undeniable fact that prohibition has done absolutely nothing to deter, or slow drug use, or the violence associated with it. All the WoD™ has done is make it worse, infringe on the rights of citizens, and turn a whole population of people into criminals who would otherwise be ordinary citizens.

I told you before. Your war is exactly what it is. Your countries war. There is over the whole world no war on drugs. Except for the US. I told you before, it is a buzz word. It is no different then the phrase :"Arbeit macht frei".


The culture of your country is a feeding ground for innovation, for prosperity. But it also is a feeding ground for darker issues. And from those issues poverty arises. Separation of people. And your extreme crime rate. Your police is a company that needs to ticket people for a quota to be made. A in my opinion very bad practice that slowly shows it's ugly head in other countries as well.

To come back to the US.
I am sure that if Mr Obama could be president for the next century, he would have a chance to make some changes. But i am sure he already has learned that politics are politics and dreams are dreams.

 

[ayabe]

Don't play coy. My point, and you got it, is that we shouldn't emulate the practices of liberal, socialist governments that are failing. I mean we are, but we shouldn't be.

There is nothing in the article quoted in the OP that is new or innovative.



Encourages? Well that'll take care of the problem.

Another database that will further scare the medical community into prescribing painkillers for those that truly need them? Another feel-good plan from this administration that appeals to the sensibilities of do-gooders. It's a failure right out of the gate. More money borrowed that we don't have.

Again, your solution to this and every fucking thing else is to do nothing.

People are doctor shopping and getting way more meds than they need, this is a way of keeping track of who prescribed what, not a means of intimidating doctors.

 

[xj0hnx]

I told you before. Your war is exactly what it is. Your countries war. There is over the whole world no war on drugs. Except for the US. I told you before, it is a buzz word. It is no different then the phrase :"Arbeit macht frei".


The culture of your country is a feeding ground for innovation, for prosperity. But it also is a feeding ground for darker issues. And from those issues poverty arises. Separation of people. And your extreme crime rate. Your police is a company that needs to ticket people for a quota to be made. A in my opinion very bad practice that slowly shows it's ugly head in other countries as well.

To come back to the US.
I am sure that if Mr Obama could be president for the next century, he would have a chance to make some changes. But i am sure he already has learned that politics are politics and dreams are dreams.

Once again not addressing what you quote, bad habit of yours.