Obama threatening to withold terror intelligence from the UK

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
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Washington Times

"The Obama administration says it may curtail Anglo-American intelligence sharing if the British High Court discloses new details of the treatment of a former Guantanamo detainee.

A court filing from the British Foreign Office released recently includes a letter from the U.S. government, identified as the "Obama administration's communication." Other information identifying the U.S. agency and author of the letter appears to have been redacted.

The letter says:

"If it is determined that [her majesty's government] is unable to protect information we provide to it, even if that inability is caused by your judicial system, we will necessarily have to review with the greatest care the sensitivity of information we can provide in the future."

The letter stands in contrast to President Obama's decision last month to release four memos from the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel providing fresh detail on the CIA's enhanced interrogation program.

But, the U.S. letter points out: "Neither in [those four] memoranda, nor in any statements of the administration accompanying their release, was reference made to the identity of any foreign government that might have assisted the United States.

"Given the declassification of the highly sensitive information contained in the memoranda, the fact that the president refrained from providing any information about foreign governments is indicative that the United States continues to preserve the secrecy of such information as critical to our national security."

At issue is whether the British courts will disclose a seven-paragraph summary of the treatment of Binyam Mohamed, a former detainee who was released from Guantanamo Bay prison in February.

The British terrorism suspect was set free after charges that he had collaborated with convicted terrorist Jose Padilla in a plot to set off a "dirty bomb" in the United States fell apart. Mr. Mohamed says he was tortured while in U.S., Pakistani and Moroccan custody.

In February, the British Foreign Office claimed that the U.S. government had threatened to reduce intelligence cooperation if details of the interrogations and treatment of Mr. Mohamed were disclosed.

The High Court agreed on Feb. 4 to keep the details of Mr. Mohamed's treatment from the public. But two days later, the court decided to take up the matter again in response to an argument that the position of the U.S. government may have represented the Bush administration's view and not that of the Obama administration.

The letter, however, put to rest any doubt that it reflects the position of Mr. Obama's administration. Depending on what the court decides, it also may quash Mr. Mohamed's efforts to get the court to disclose any U.S. confirmation that he was tortured.

"The seven paragraphs at issue are based upon classified information shared between our countries," the U.S. letter said. "Public disclosure of this information, reasonably could be expected to cause serious damage to the United Kingdom's national security.

"Specifically, disclosure of this information may result in a constriction of the U.S.-U.K. relationship, as well as U.K. relationships with other countries."

Clive Stafford Smith, an attorney for Mr. Mohamed, said in a telephone interview that he was disappointed.

"What they are doing is twisting the arm of the British to keep evidence of torture committed by American officials secret," said Mr. Smith, a U.S. citizen. "I had high hopes for the Obama administration. I voted for the guy, and one hopes the new administration would not continue to cover up evidence of criminal activity."

The Metropolitan Police of London is investigating whether Mr. Mohamed was tortured when he was in American custody.

Mr. Smith said that by attempting to keep evidence of Mr. Mohamed's "abuse" secret, the U.S. official who communicated the threats to the British Foreign Office was in breach of British law, specifically the International Criminal Court Act of 2001.

"The U.S. is committing a criminal offense in Britain by seeking to conceal this information. What the Obama administration did is not just ill-advised, it is illegal," he said.

Mr. Smith said he is scheduled to meet with the Metropolitan Police next week. "One of the questions that will come up is whether these statements by the U.S. government are an independent crime that should be investigated," he said.

David Rose, a contributing editor for Vanity Fair and one of the parties in the case petitioning the British court to release the details of Mr. Mohamed's interrogation, said the U.S. government might be helping the British government shroud its own hand in Mr. Mohamed's treatment.

"Binyam Mohamed has always alleged that MI5 agents colluded in his maltreatment and reiterated this in an interview with me after his release," Mr. Rose said. "The British government's attitude towards this case has been characterized by an absence of candor for many months. One has to wonder if this is in order to protect the true role the British agencies played."

The White House and Justice Department declined to comment for this story.

Last month, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals agreed to proceed with another case Mr. Mohamed was bringing against Boeing subsidiary Jeppesen Dataplan, claiming the company renditioned him to foreign jails from Pakistan to Morocco.

In that case, the Obama Justice Department requested that the circuit court vacate the case on the grounds that it would disclose state secrets, a plea the Justice Department lost.

Last month, Mr. Obama said at a press conference that the state secret privilege should be modified and that it was "overly broad."

"But keep in mind, what happens is we come into office; we're in for a week and suddenly we've got a court filing that's coming up," the president said. "And so we don't have the time to effectively think through what exactly should a[n] overarching reform of that doctrine take. We've got to respond to the immediate case in front of us.

"There - I think - it is appropriate to say that there are going to be cases in which national-security interests are genuinely at stake, and that you can't litigate without revealing covert activities or classified information that would genuinely compromise our safety," the president said.

Ben Wizner, a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) who represents Mr. Mohamed and others in a civil lawsuit against Jeppesen Dataplan, which is accused of supplying the equipment and personnel used to transport prisoners among nations, said the Obama administration should have no problem releasing the seven paragraphs disclosing details of Mr. Mohamed's treatment.

"The U.S. actions viewed as a whole seem aimed at preventing accountability in either the United States or in Europe for the past administration's crimes," Mr. Wizner said."


Simply stunning, I can't believe that Obama would be onboard for this, but it's been confirmed. Threatening to expose our biggest allies' citizens to higher risk of an attack because we might be embarrassed is sick in the extreme.

How far will Obama go to cover for the Bush admin? How many more laws are going to be broken to cover up the original crime? Would be nice if someone in the MSM could take a break from apologizing for torture and telling us to "move on" to ask Obama why he's doing this.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
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Sharing intel with other countries has always been a shaky business, fraught with peril. Lots of things can come back to bite you on the ass. After all, "sharing secrets" is something of an oxymoron.

That being said, with small amount of info available on this issue, I cannot understand the logic being used for this level of suppression. I certainly want more of an explanation from our government if I am to feel comfortable with this course of action.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
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Silly naive liberals have set themselves up for a world of disappointment. Meds are available to cure depression, seek them out.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
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Originally posted by: Corn
Silly naive liberals have set themselves up for a world of disappointment. Meds are available to cure depression, seek them out.

I think you neocons need the meds now more then ever. I'm sure Rush has some extra for everybody :)
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Notice the suspect in question is equally harsh in blaming the Brits for his torture.

Given the fact that the GWB administration is the main sinning party, and can no longer defend themselves, I think Obama has some right to ask that the USA being able to choose what is released and in what sequence to maintain a level of trust between intel services.
 

cubeless

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2001
4,295
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
Notice the suspect in question is equally harsh in blaming the Brits for his torture.

Given the fact that the GWB administration is the main sinning party, and can no longer defend themselves, I think Obama has some right to ask that the USA being able to choose what is released and in what sequence to maintain a level of trust between intel services.

...and for the dem's maximum political gain...
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
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Originally posted by: ayabe
-snip-
Simply stunning, I can't believe that Obama would be onboard for this, but it's been confirmed. Threatening to expose our biggest allies' citizens to higher risk of an attack because we might be embarrassed is sick in the extreme.

How far will Obama go to cover for the Bush admin? How many more laws are going to be broken to cover up the original crime? Would be nice if someone in the MSM could take a break from apologizing for torture and telling us to "move on" to ask Obama why he's doing this.

You, and some in the article, are attributing a motive for Obama's request of non-disclosure.

Perhaps the motive is one of national security.

Given what we've seen so far, I really have hard time Obama is doing this merely because he doesn't wanna embarass the GWB admin. So far he's shown no hesitancy in doing that.

How does this 7 paragraph letter relate to the case at hand; what is it's relevence? The article doesn't even say what the case is about.

The 7 paragraph summary appears to be drafted by the USA itself, since it hasn't been seen how can we know it entails admission of illegal treatment?

Anyway, I don't see why people just don't ask the defendant himself; he knows what happened. In fact, I would guess that may be widely known already.

I'm not sure this is any 'big deal'. IIRC, the admin/DOJ is looking into prosecuting the harsh interrogations and no doubt they already have this information.

Fern
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
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Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: ayabe
-snip-
Simply stunning, I can't believe that Obama would be onboard for this, but it's been confirmed. Threatening to expose our biggest allies' citizens to higher risk of an attack because we might be embarrassed is sick in the extreme.

How far will Obama go to cover for the Bush admin? How many more laws are going to be broken to cover up the original crime? Would be nice if someone in the MSM could take a break from apologizing for torture and telling us to "move on" to ask Obama why he's doing this.

You, and some in the article, are attributing a motive for Obama's request of non-disclosure.

Perhaps the motive is one of national security.

Given what we've seen so far, I really have hard time Obama is doing this merely because he doesn't wanna embarass the GWB admin. So far he's shown no hesitancy in doing that.

How does this 7 paragraph letter relate to the case at hand; what is it's relevence? The article doesn't even say what the case is about.

The 7 paragraph summary appears to be drafted by the USA itself, since it hasn't been seen how can we know it entails admission of illegal treatment?

Anyway, I don't see why people just don't ask the defendant himself; he knows what happened. In fact, I would guess that may be widely known already.

I'm not sure this is any 'big deal'. IIRC, the admin/DOJ is looking into prosecuting the harsh interrogations and no doubt they already have this information.

Fern

The relevance is that Mohamed is trying to sue and these paragraphs contain evidence of his abuse, lack of which would probably lead to the case being dropped or at least weaken it substantially, that is my understanding. If there was nothing to hide, why would we go to such extraordinary lengths to prevent their release? If there was no abuse, then we would not have a problem releasing it.

Another consideration is that countries like Morocco, Egypt, etc. who "assisted" us with our "enhanced interrogation techniques" probably aren't going to be all that happy about being fingered helping the US torture muslims.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: OCguy
Another wake-up call to the Obama brigade.

care to elaborate?

Using intelligence as blackmail to prevent the UK form releasing torture information.

Yeah, I get the thrust of the article. I meant how is this a wake-up call to the "Obama brigade"? Are you implying the tired "annointed one" bs again? That the president might do something his base might disagree with?
 

SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
10,449
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81
Obama is yet again defending the wrong people. I am completely for full disclosure. We don't need anymore secrets.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
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106
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Fern
-snip-

The relevance is that Mohamed is trying to sue and these paragraphs contain evidence of his abuse, lack of which would probably lead to the case being dropped or at least weaken it substantially, that is my understanding. If there was nothing to hide, why would we go to such extraordinary lengths to prevent their release? If there was no abuse, then we would not have a problem releasing it.

Another consideration is that countries like Morocco, Egypt, etc. who "assisted" us with our "enhanced interrogation techniques" probably aren't going to be all that happy about being fingered helping the US torture muslims.

Ahh. So it's a civil case. Thanks

But I don't see wyy the case would be affected by it's non-release to the public. Quite clearly the judge(s) in the case already have the memo.

Looks to me to be about "public release" and I don't see why or how that would affect the case itself.

Fern
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
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Originally posted by: cubeless
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Notice the suspect in question is equally harsh in blaming the Brits for his torture.

Given the fact that the GWB administration is the main sinning party, and can no longer defend themselves, I think Obama has some right to ask that the USA being able to choose what is released and in what sequence to maintain a level of trust between intel services.

...and for the dem's maximum political gain...

instead of cubeless your name should be clueless....lolol
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: OCguy
Another wake-up call to the Obama brigade.

care to elaborate?

Using intelligence as blackmail to prevent the UK form releasing torture information.

again so totally clueless you are...as lemon stated --
Given the fact that the GWB administration is the main sinning party, and can no longer defend themselves, I think Obama has some right to ask that the USA being able to choose what is released and in what sequence to maintain a level of trust between intel services.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
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It's part of a strategic shift in relationship that Obama is initiating. We finally have a President who is not irrationally Eurocentric. He recognizes that the future is one where the Europeans are even more militarily, culturally, and economically irrelevant and that our alliances and relationships need to be geared towards countries of the future.

The US-UK relationship is too dangerous for us to maintain.

Plus, the British tortured Obama's grandfather. He has no love for them.
 

trooper11

Senior member
Aug 12, 2004
343
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Originally posted by: CanOWorms
It's part of a strategic shift in relationship that Obama is initiating. We finally have a President who is not irrationally Eurocentric. He recognizes that the future is one where the Europeans are even more militarily, culturally, and economically irrelevant and that our alliances and relationships need to be geared towards countries of the future.

The US-UK relationship is too dangerous for us to maintain.

Plus, the British tortured Obama's grandfather. He has no love for them.



thats news to me, Obama seems to be doing everything to show that he is very Eurocentric, so it would suprise me to find out that he really wasnt. I would wonder why the need to put on such an extreme show of support to Europe....


As for this issue, lets take our won personal opnions about the subject out of it for a moment. Wether you agree with the tactics or agree with the disclosure, you have to scratch your head when Obama seems to be taking both positions on the subject.

The administration gets all of these memos released and thats ok, and yet when it comes to photos, he says no. If he really felt this was a national security issue, then why didnt he feel that way about the memos? Was he adviced by the military that the memos were fine but the photos were not? Whats the real story there?

We probably wont ever know since I doubt itll be easy to get straight answers. I know what I believe he should be doing, but the fact that he isnt being consistant would make anyone scratch there head.
 

ZeGermans

Banned
Dec 14, 2004
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obama is like seeing the girl you have a crush on in high school with her hands down some jock's jorts. Except she pulls her hand out covered in blood becaue the cia cut his dick to ribbons for giggles.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,398
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Originally posted by: ZeGermans
obama is like seeing the girl you have a crush on in high school with her hands down some jock's jorts. Except she pulls her hand out covered in blood becaue the cia cut his dick to ribbons for giggles.

w
t
f
 

ZeGermans

Banned
Dec 14, 2004
907
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it's true, the case that spawned this was a british national who was abducted and some of his torture was getting his penis sliced.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,917
2,880
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Originally posted by: ZeGermans
it's true, the case that spawned this was a british national who was abducted and some of his torture was getting his penis sliced.

That sucks, links?