Obama taking real steps to help the economy?

[Acanthus]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Admin...tml?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=

Chinese currency manipulation is a huge piece of our trade deficit puzzle.

Tariffs would encourage businesses to look elsewhere for production. (Although to be fair, the big offenders would choose Africa, Vietnam, etc before the US)

 

[Double Trouble]

The problem is that when it comes to China, we have very little if no leverage. As long as we are dependent on them lending us money, they hold the cards. Once we clean up our act (as if that will ever happen) and we stop needing to borrow billions daily, we'll be in a better position of leverage regarding trade issues.

 

[Acanthus]

The problem is that when it comes to China, we have very little if no leverage. As long as we are dependent on them lending us money, they hold the cards. Once we clean up our act (as if that will ever happen) and we stop needing to borrow billions daily, we'll be in a better position of leverage regarding trade issues.

Yeah, we are really cornered when it comes to this issue. The only thing i can imagine we can leverage is the WTO. China has something like 30 outstanding complaints for currency manipulation, dumping, product safety, etc around the world.

 

[dmcowen674]

China owns the U.S.

False and misleading title

 

[bamacre]

Damn them for trying to manipulate the value of their currency!!

 

[Acanthus]

Damn them for trying to manipulate the value of their currency!!

Intentionally making all imports 40% more expensive and your exports 40% cheaper is a pretty unfair playing field. Especially when your citizens are already being paid a pittance for a days work.

Having all of your goods increased in price by 40% when it crosses the border to the most populous country in the world doesn't bode well for outsiders.

 

[bamacre]

Intentionally making all imports 40% more expensive and your exports 40% cheaper is a pretty unfair playing field. Especially when your citizens are already being paid a pittance for a days work.

Having all of your goods increased in price by 40% when it crosses the border to the most populous country in the world doesn't bode well for outsiders.

Yeah, I guess if they manipulate the price of their currency, it makes it harder for us to manipulate manage the price of the dollar.

 

[Acanthus]

Yeah, I guess if they manipulate the price of their currency, it makes it harder for us to manipulate manage the price of the dollar.

So you don't think that China intentionally keeping their currency down is a problem?

It is certainly a major part of our trade deficit with China.

 

[nonlnear]

So you don't think that China intentionally keeping their currency down is a problem?

It is what it is. If China wants to impoverish their people to maintain more stable employment while providing the rest of the world with cheap goods, then so be it. If Americans hate it so much they can boycott Wal-Mart.

Whatever happened to sovereignty? They are really stretching to shoehorn this into a WTO filing. And even if they can pull off the legal maneuvering necessary to get a WTO ruling against China, it's not like the US gives a damn about WTO rulings when they rule against the US. The indignation is most hypocritical, but then again that's politics...

It wasn't too long ago that everybody was applauding Bush for helping to save American steel plants with some nifty new tariffs (with enthusiastic bipartisan support). I remember when I first heard it wondering if everybody in the nation had forgotten that it was patently illegal. *shrug* And that's just one little example...

 

[Moonbeam]

nonlnear: It is what it is.

M: Everything that happens happens by the Will of God or everything happens mechanically because humanity is asleep and has no real free will, which, of course, may also be God's will?

n: If China wants to impoverish their people to maintain more stable employment while providing the rest of the world with cheap goods, then so be it.

M: Well to me 'so be it' sounds more like moral approval than, say, 'so it is'. I don't want it to be so.

n: If Americans hate it so much they can boycott Wal-Mart.

I quit going there when I realized this, but the connection isn't clear to most people, nor do most people have the economic viability to be picky about where they shot. Cheap goods keep the poor from having nothing. We can't lay on the backs of the poor the responsibility to fix China, I don't think.

n: Whatever happened to sovereignty?

M: Whatever happened to universal human rights? With freedom comes responsibility. What is real responsibility. Is it responsible to enjoy freedom in one place and have slaves in another? How you fix that seems to me to be the real issue.

n: They are really stretching to shoehorn this into a WTO filing. And even if they can pull off the legal maneuvering necessary to get a WTO ruling against China, it's not like the US gives a damn about WTO rulings when they rule against the US. The indignation is most hypocritical, but then again that's politics...

M: And it requires self deception. You have to lie to yourself. One of our biggest jokes is that we despise liars.

n: It wasn't too long ago that everybody was applauding Bush for helping to save American steel plants with some nifty new tariffs (with enthusiastic bipartisan support). I remember when I first heard it wondering if everybody in the nation had forgotten that it was patently illegal. *shrug* And that's just one little example...

M: It almost makes you think we don't really give a fuck about anything so long as 'I got mine'.

What an ugly bunch we are.

 

[nonlnear]

n: If China wants to impoverish their people to maintain more stable employment while providing the rest of the world with cheap goods, then so be it.

M: Well to me 'so be it' sounds more like moral approval than, say, 'so it is'. I don't want it to be so.

Not so much approval as acceptance of the fact that I am not likely to change it.* When the Chinese people decide that giving the rest of the world cheap goodies isn't worth poisoning their children, they can shange their country. That's their prerogative. Also I think it's important to point out to the "ZOMG teh CHINEEEEZ" crowd that while Chinese industrialists are benefiting from their current economic position, it's a very mixed bag for the general population. Acanthus' own post clearly states that the Chinese government is massively depressing the standard of living of their own people in order to give other countries shiny plastic bits at bargain prices. In discussions of dumping (which the China rhetoric is attempting to reach for), the focus on trade deficits and employment while ignoring wealth effects skews the conversation well outside the realm of reason. In most such cases the recipients of "dumped" goods ought to just say thank you.

* Well there might be hope for change if everybody in the trade policy game weren't institutionally corrupt - and comically so. But the world being what it is, I can only help a handful of people.

 

[Moonbeam]

Not so much approval as acceptance of the fact that I am not likely to change it.* When the Chinese people decide that giving the rest of the world cheap goodies isn't worth poisoning their children, they can shange their country. That's their prerogative. Also I think it's important to point out to the "ZOMG teh CHINEEEEZ" crowd that while Chinese industrialists are benefiting from their current economic position, it's a very mixed bag for the general population. Acanthus' own post clearly states that the Chinese government is massively depressing the standard of living of their own people in order to give other countries shiny plastic bits at bargain prices. In discussions of dumping (which the China rhetoric is attempting to reach for), the focus on trade deficits and employment while ignoring wealth effects skews the conversation well outside the realm of reason. In most such cases the recipients of "dumped" goods ought to just say thank you.

* Well there might be hope for change if everybody in the trade policy game weren't institutionally corrupt - and comically so. But the world being what it is, I can only help a handful of people.

Yes, well, what I see is the world is as it is because of a diseasee of motivation. The diseas is self hate and the intention is to destroy ourselves.

People choose to die rather than feel what the feel, and what they really feel is a lie. This is the great tragedy and the catch 22. There is nothing wrong with anybody. Imagine living your life in prison for years and years and years convicted to serve a life sentence and actually believing your guilty when you're not. Then imagine you get a call from somebody in the real world telling you you're innocent.

 

[Acanthus]

Another article on the topic. It seems that congress wants a stronger stance with china over currency manipulation.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Congr...4.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=7&asset=&ccode=

Support on the stance within the senate banking comittee seems to be bipartisan...

Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., and Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama, the top Republican on the panel, both said they had grown frustrated listening to a string of administrations refuse to cite China as a currency manipulator.