Obama supports the Constitutional Right of Mosque being built near WTC

Page 5 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
It goes to prove that Islam is a hateful and intolerant ideology. Putting a mosque two blocks from two WTC site is no different than opening a Nazi social club two blocks from Auschwitz.

So opening a church two blocks away from the Murrah Federal Building is the same thing then... Damn Christians and their hateful and intolerant ideology...

Pathetic...
 

Budmantom

Lifer
Aug 17, 2002
13,103
1
81
The only fools who are offended by the mosque are those that equate all of Islam with the attack on the WTC. That somehow, even American citizens who happen to be Muslim share some responsibility for the attacks. You also have the right to be stupid in this country. Exercise it proudly.

Ummmm the left has been blaming the US for the attack, we deserved it.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,138
12,457
136
I'm NOT a fan of Obama, nor do I think the mosque should be built where they're planning, BUT, like it or not, this country was founded on "Freedom of Religion."

That means they get to build the mosque...without government interference.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
31
91
Anyone against the construction of this mosque is against America. You can't have freedom of religion both ways. I don't know the stats, nor do I even care to try to find them, but I'd say the vast majority of murderers and rapists in our jails are Christians. Yet I don't see protests led by the victim's families at the next Christian church construction site being built down the street.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
I'm NOT a fan of Obama, nor do I think the mosque should be built where they're planning, BUT, like it or not, this country was founded on "Freedom of Religion."

That means they get to build the mosque...without government interference.

Agreed. Hopefully the guy who wants to build the Muslim gay bar next door gets his wish too. Maybe that was a joke on Glenn Beck but I would like to see that happen.
 

L00PY

Golden Member
Sep 14, 2001
1,101
0
0
This is an example of the president having a tin ear. While legally there's absolutely nothing wrong with building a center and mosque in that location, it's certainly understandable why it would rub people of this country the wrong way. The president should have left the matter alone, but by coming out (in front of a muslim group even) and supporting the mosque at ground zero, he's showing that he has a political tin ear.
Funny, what you call having a tin ear I'd call having strength of character I'd expect from a president. Standing up and saying the right thing, despite the way the political opinion polls might be blowing is what we should be asking of all our politicians. Pandering to the the loudest voice in the room, regardless of personal beliefs and convictions, is a pathetic sight in a politician.

Also, it's a shame people constantly refer to it as a "mosque". The building is going to have a basketball court, a swimming pool, a gym. There's going to be a restaurant and a culinary school. There's going to be a library, art studios, and exhibition space. While there's going to be a mosque there intended to be run separate from the rest too, their intolerance of a religion would deprive the neighborhood and community from facilities most places would die for. ..
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
xj0hnx

"Which is exactly the point, if there's no tolerance in Muslim countries for other religions, what the hell makes people think they want tolerance here?"

Did it hurt when you pulled that out of your ass?

Please cite examples of American Muslims calling for the banning or severe restriction of any other religion in this country.

Your attempt to paint all Muslims in the same light is as feeble as suggesting that all Christians must favor handling venomous snakes in church because some fundie nuts do.

And like typical stereotyping, you only use it to point out what you feel are negatives, never anything good, desirable, or that you might agree with.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
31
91
Been discussed many times before and is simply irrelevant. McVeigh did not act in the name of Christianity, where Atta, et al clearly acted in the name of Islam.

Hell, McVeigh claimed to be an agnostic.

You're right on this case but I'm sure it would not be hard to find acts of violence committed in the name of Christianity. But then again I would argue that just because a person or group of people decide to do something and say they are doing it in the name of their religion it doesn't really mean anything in terms of their religion. It just paints the individuals as extremists, outside the norm, not representative of the whole.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
You're right on this case but I'm sure it would not be hard to find acts of violence committed in the name of Christianity. But then again I would argue that just because a person or group of people decide to do something and say they are doing it in the name of their religion it doesn't really mean anything in terms of their religion. It just paints the individuals as extremists, outside the norm, not representative of the whole.

I think its safe to say that a larger percentage of muslims are "radical" when compared to Christians.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,138
12,457
136
You're right on this case but I'm sure it would not be hard to find acts of violence committed in the name of Christianity. But then again I would argue that just because a person or group of people decide to do something and say they are doing it in the name of their religion it doesn't really mean anything in terms of their religion. It just paints the individuals as extremists, outside the norm, not representative of the whole.

How about The Crusades?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_crusades

:p
 

dwell

pics?
Oct 9, 1999
5,185
2
0
You're right on this case but I'm sure it would not be hard to find acts of violence committed in the name of Christianity. But then again I would argue that just because a person or group of people decide to do something and say they are doing it in the name of their religion it doesn't really mean anything in terms of their religion. It just paints the individuals as extremists, outside the norm, not representative of the whole.

All religions have their extremist factions. But at the end of the day when I list out all the major, their beliefs, there extremist to moderate ratios etc, Islam comes out dead last in the progressive category. Maybe it is an Eastern vs Western thing, but at the end of the day we can not let freedom of religion become a pass for intolerance. Kind of sidetracking from the topic, but it's where I'm coming from.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
xj0hnx

"Which is exactly the point, if there's no tolerance in Muslim countries for other religions, what the hell makes people think they want tolerance here?"

Did it hurt when you pulled that out of your ass?

Please cite examples of American Muslims calling for the banning or severe restriction of any other religion in this country.

Your attempt to paint all Muslims in the same light is as feeble as suggesting that all Christians must favor handling venomous snakes in church because some fundie nuts do.

And like typical stereotyping, you only use it to point out what you feel are negatives, never anything good, desirable, or that you might agree with.

Did Islam change when it came to America? Is it a different brand of Islam?
 

L00PY

Golden Member
Sep 14, 2001
1,101
0
0
I also wonder how many of those denouncing Obama's words have seen what he said? In particular with regards to NYC.

That is not to say that religion is without controversy. Recently, attention has been focused on the construction of mosques in certain communities - particularly in New York. Now, we must all recognize and respect the sensitivities surrounding the development of lower Manhattan. The 9/11 attacks were a deeply traumatic event for our country. The pain and suffering experienced by those who lost loved ones is unimaginable. So I understand the emotions that this issue engenders. Ground Zero is, indeed, hallowed ground.

But let me be clear: as a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country. That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are. The writ of our Founders must endure.

We must never forget those who we lost so tragically on 9/11, and we must always honor those who have led our response to that attack - from the firefighters who charged up smoke-filled staircases, to our troops who are serving in Afghanistan today. And let us always remember who we are fighting against, and what we are fighting for. Our enemies respect no freedom of religion. Al Qaeda’s cause is not Islam - it is a gross distortion of Islam. These are not religious leaders - these are terrorists who murder innocent men, women and children. In fact, al Qaeda has killed more Muslims than people of any other religion - and that list of victims includes innocent Muslims who were killed on 9/11.

That is who we are fighting against. And the reason that we will win this fight is not simply the strength of our arms - it is the strength of our values. The democracy that we uphold. The freedoms that we cherish. The laws that we apply without regard to race or religion; wealth or status. Our capacity to show not merely tolerance, but respect to those who are different from us - a way of life that stands in stark contrast to the nihilism of those who attacked us on that September morning, and who continue to plot against us today.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
31
91
All religions have their extremist factions. But at the end of the day when I list out all the major, their beliefs, there extremist to moderate ratios etc, Islam comes out dead last in the progressive category. Maybe it is an Eastern vs Western thing, but at the end of the day we can not let freedom of religion become a pass for intolerance. Kind of sidetracking from the topic, but it's where I'm coming from.

Well there is still the KKK. Not that they're running around burning crosses as frequently but it really wasn't that long ago. And yet I still don't remember reading about people being pissed about new Christian churches being built.

It's not off topic to be honest. People are pissed about the mosque because they think Islam attacked us. Islam did not attack us. Islamic extremists did.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
xj0hnx

You must be ignorant or an idiot if you do not know that there are different beliefs in Islam. The conflict between the Sunni and Shiites is one glaring example. There are many others. You should educate yourself a little more in the interest of presenting better arguments.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
I'm saying he should have just kept his mouth shut, now even more people are upset with him. This had nothing to do with the federal government.

Which I notice has been VERY helpful in convincing other political figures not living in New York to keep their mouths shut... "It's a local issue" hasn't stopped Republicans from mouthing off about it, so why can't the President express his view on the issue. He's not saying the federal government is going to DO anything, this is just what he thinks about it.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
We must have these mosques everywhere because of our "principles", and yet Wal*Mart cannot build a store in the Democratically controlled Chicagoland area, where Obama came from, because the government continually says no.

See the hypocrisy here?
No :rolleyes:

Look I think Islam is a ridiculous religion, even more so than the other two Abrahamic religions and I believe those who follow it would be better off abandoning those beliefs but it's not up to me to decide and they have the right to follow it and to practice it thus they have a right to build this Mosque. Do I think it's a good idea, hell no but if we are going to allow freedom of religion we have to allow it.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
xj0hnx

You must be ignorant or an idiot if you do not know that there are different beliefs in Islam. The conflict between the Sunni and Shiites is one glaring example. There are many others. You should educate yourself a little more in the interest of presenting better arguments.

I know plenty about it, this isn't about Sunni, and Shia, their differences are negligible to this situation, they all believe in the same Islamic beliefs.