Obama supports the Constitutional Right of Mosque being built near WTC

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bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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Of course this will be unpopular, that doesn't mean he's taking the wrong stance.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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Of course this will be unpopular, that doesn't mean he's taking the wrong stance.

I think that if you're President, and you don't directly have a dog in the fight, and your position is the same as that of, say, Hamas' leadership, not taking a stance might be the wiser course.
 
Dec 10, 2005
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I think that if you're President, and you don't directly have a dog in the fight, and your position is the same as that of, say, Hamas' leadership, not taking a stance might be the wiser course.

1) Everyone else on the national stage was giving their input about how its a bad idea and shouldn't be done, etc. The president was right to stand up and say it is their right to build it on private property.

2) If Hamas said it was in favor of building bridges over rivers, would you be in favor of tearing down all the bridges and only building tunnels? After all, the terrorists are in favor of bridges, so we have to be against them. :rolleyes:
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
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Good to see conservatives ending their charade of "freedom" and "constitutionality". Finally you idiots are showing your true colors and openly opposing tolerance and the constitutional right to free religion.

George Bush spent 7 years saying that "Islam is not our enemy"
, but now the right has somehow convinced a vast majority of us that all that was a lie and Islam really is our enemy so freedom of religion doesn't apply to them? It's one thing to have bad feelings about the mosque privately but it blows my mind that you right wingers are actually opposing the mosque publicly.

The mosque has to be built, as a monument to the openness and freedom of Western Civilization itself. To block it would be a stain on 3000 years of history.
 
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UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
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Do conservatives want the government to use eminent domain to seize the Mosque property from its rightful owners?

Or, better yet - would they have supported removing the gun toting man at the Obama event earlier this year, even if he was within his legal rights to open carry?
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
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Do conservatives want the government to use eminent domain to seize the Mosque property from its rightful owners?

its not just conservatives. i have seen this from both sides.

I think to many are blinded by emotion to think its clearly.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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1) Everyone else on the national stage was giving their input about how its a bad idea and shouldn't be done, etc. The president was right to stand up and say it is their right to build it on private property.

2) If Hamas said it was in favor of building bridges over rivers, would you be in favor of tearing down all the bridges and only building tunnels? After all, the terrorists are in favor of bridges, so we have to be against them. :rolleyes:

WTF? Seriously? Are you six?

If Hamas was in favor of building bridges AND everyone else was against these particular bridges then I'd take a real hard look at these bridges.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
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WTF? Seriously? Are you six?

If Hamas was in favor of building bridges AND everyone else was against these particular bridges then I'd take a real hard look at these bridges.

It just goes to show how fucked up the right wing is in this country, that Hamas could be right and you could be wrong.

I'm no fan of Islam at all. Following the religion strictly means right wing oppression and violence, not unlike Christianity. But the Constitution is very clear about freedom of religion-- why did you choose the blatantly wrong side?
 
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Dec 10, 2005
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WTF? Seriously? Are you six?

If Hamas was in favor of building bridges AND everyone else was against these particular bridges then I'd take a real hard look at these bridges.

You're the one that is suggesting that community center is tainted because a group that you don't agree with supports the idea. Who cares if Hamas supports it? They aren't the ones building it.

Do you support closing the borders and stuff like that? Well the Klan supports that. :rolleyes:
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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I think that if you're President, and you don't directly have a dog in the fight, and your position is the same as that of, say, Hamas' leadership, not taking a stance might be the wiser course.

wtf? who cares if Hamas agrees with the President if they're both right? Just because Hamas sucks balls doesn't mean they can't be right every now and then. Yes building a Mosque near WTC sucks, but that doesn't mean they don't have the same rights as you and I.
 

brencat

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2007
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Or, better yet - would they have supported removing the gun toting man at the Obama event earlier this year, even if he was within his legal rights to open carry?

I am as pro-gun as they come, but you damned well better believe I would have removed that guy. Certain circumstances require common sense!!! Openly carrying a gun around the President just to demonstrate your rights like a silly spoiled child should never be allowed in my opinion.

Ditto in the Mosque case...they have the right to build it, but the most unbearable political pressure from all sides should be heaped on them if they don't do the proper and decent thing and choose an alternate location.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
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I am as pro-gun as they come, but you damned well better believe I would have removed that guy. Certain circumstances require common sense!!! Openly carrying a gun around the President just to demonstrate your rights like a silly spoiled child should never be allowed in my opinion.

Ditto in the Mosque case...they have the right to build it, but the most unbearable political pressure from all sides should be heaped on them if they don't do the proper and decent thing and choose an alternate location.

I don't understand why the proper and decent thing is to choose an alternate location. Why would you not want a mosque/community center near ground zero? It's like opposing a church near the Oklahoma City bombing site... It would be totally unthinkable and politically incorrect to take that stance.
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
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I am as pro-gun as they come, but you damned well better believe I would have removed that guy. Certain circumstances require common sense!!! Openly carrying a gun around the President just to demonstrate your rights like a silly spoiled child should never be allowed in my opinion.

Why would you oppose his rights? He was legally within them - so why? Because it bothers you?

/as per this "mosque" nonsense...

Perhaps we should just be a third world country with a leader that does as they please....

//hopes that you or I don't end up on that list of "bad guys."
///after all, this is the end effect of what Bin Laden was seeking.....
 
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brencat

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2007
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I don't understand why the proper and decent thing is to choose an alternate location. Why would you not want a mosque/community center near ground zero? It's like opposing a church near the Oklahoma City bombing site... It would be totally unthinkable and politically incorrect to take that stance.

It is politically incorrect for me to think like that...never said it wasn't, plus I've also stated there is no legal reason why they can't build there.

Let's put it this way...Timothy McVeigh didn't belong to a church whose religion regularly seems to radicalize people to commit terrorist acts against innocents. But if it did, I would absolutely be opposed to that sect of that religion building their church there. They of course would have the legal right to build it, just as those in NYC have the legal right, but I would want the same kind of political pressure brought to bear there in that case too to "encourage" them not to pour salt on a fresh wound.
 

brencat

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2007
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Why would you oppose his rights? He was legally within them - so why? Because it bothers you?

/as per this "mosque" nonsense...

Not that it bothers me, but that very few things in life are black and white. That's the problem I think with too many on the left...they often take the stance that "it's my right, so I'm doing it and nah nah na-nah nah you can't stop me" crap, which pisses people off.

Decency, class, and common sense can't be taught. You either get it or you don't. Just because you "can" doesn't mean you "should." That is the point I think you are missing here.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
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It is politically incorrect for me to think like that...never said it wasn't, plus I've also stated there is no legal reason why they can't build there.

Let's put it this way...Timothy McVeigh didn't belong to a church whose religion regularly seems to radicalize people to commit terrorist acts against innocents. But if it did, I would absolutely be opposed to that sect of that religion building their church there. They of course would have the legal right to build it, just as those in NYC have the legal right, but I would want the same kind of political pressure brought to bear there in that case too to "encourage" them not to pour salt on a fresh wound.

They're liberal Muslims, exactly the ones we want building community centers.
 

GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
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So 2 days and 24 pages later, Nick1985 still can't give us his own views on this, especially since he is the OP who blasted Obama for (gasp) speaking out and upholding the principles and laws of this country.

To paraphrase Sarah Palin, Obama has way more cojones then the OP since Obama at least spoke out against this, and the OP still won't, lest he be shown to be the bigot he is. 1.5 billion people are all guilty because the actions of few extremists. The very definition of bigotry.

Given that all federal and local laws and ordinances are obeyed, the center must be allowed to be built. Unless you feel that you are allowed to ignore US federal, state, and city laws. It's a free country, as some people like to point out (when it suits their interests, totally forgetting this concept as soon as it requires something they don't like to happen)

So if it isn't allowed, just how long and how far away do you have to built this center so that it is OK? 10 miles? 100? 1000?
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
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So if it isn't allowed, just how long and how far away do you have to built this center so that it is OK? 10 miles? 100? 1000?

It's a moot point as you already showed. This is America, and America stands for Mosques being built where ever they want. You could say that being against this is un-American even! :awe:
 

brencat

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2007
2,170
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They're liberal Muslims, exactly the ones we want building community centers.

When they as a community start affording their women here in the U.S. the same respect as what we in the West give to ours without effort, and as a community start regularly and loudly denouncing the acts of violence those among them who pervert their religion commit against innocents worldwide, then I will share your sentiments that they are the "liberal" kind. Until then, color me doubting.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
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Oh yeah it is, as president of the United States he's bound by the Constitution and this is a Constitutional issue. You know the Constitution, the document you pretend to worship unless it goes against your wishes?
You mean like the president has been doing up until this issue?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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So do conservatives disagree with Obama's statement that the group has a right to build a mosque there? Is there any question at all that they have that right under the law?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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I think that if you're President, and you don't directly have a dog in the fight, and your position is the same as that of, say, Hamas' leadership, not taking a stance might be the wiser course.

So, if Hamas' leadership says it's good to have newborn babies cared for, your position is that they should not get care. Glad your views are so well developed.

If someone says 'let's torture every Muslim we can find', so you disagree? You have the same position as Hamas' leadership.

Oh, that's not what you meant? You understand that agreeing with Hamas' leadership doesn't mean you agree with them on every other topic?

Then what the hell is the relevance of you saying President Obama has the same position? It's an illogical smear and nothing more - the type you are so prone to.

The President of the United States doesn't have a dog in the fight over an issue getting national and global attention about how the US treats Muslims and whether it's going with mob bigotry or supporting its values not to blame the innocent wrongly, for freedom of religion? Wrong. That's exactly a dog for Obama.

Just as JFK gave statements on how blacks were treated in the South like freedom riders that the world was watching about how the US acted.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
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When they as a community start affording their women here in the U.S. the same respect as what we in the West give to ours without effort, and as a community start regularly and loudly denouncing the acts of violence those among them who pervert their religion commit against innocents worldwide, then I will share your sentiments that they are the "liberal" kind. Until then, color me doubting.

OK, let's apply the same standards to churches.