Obama Still Going to Spew "Fairness" Economics

[hal2kilo]

Fairness in opportunity is good. We have that.

Really.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=878675

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm not going to bother watching it because the speech will be irrelevant as usual.

Regarding "fair", that is many things to different people, but let's go with an increasing difference between the highest incomes and the lowest. What's the solution? There's what interests me. If it relies on taking money as the solution then I have no further interest. That doesn't mean that I'd object to changes in the tax code, however if it were taken away it wouldn't be a drop in the bucket compared to what is being spent, which is never mentioned.

Being fair by getting even is a useless distraction. What we need to do is get a grip on the increase of spending and find intelligent solutions to question of how to provide good paying jobs for Americans instead of temporary fixes or handouts.

 

[Craig234]

Funny to see the enemies of the American people attacking fairness and populism.

They are the warriors for making the American people poor, to make a plutocracy.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

There are times when I wish we didn't have the option of using mindless software to block out others and save our delicate sensibilities from things we find beneath us.

 

[tydas]

Biff, i'll say the same thing you said when people complained about Bush...if you don't like it then move to another country...

 

[michal1980]

Well why would he want to be accurate when the truth is that 49% of Americans make 2.4% of all income yet pay 7.5% of all taxes and thus pay a tax burden equal to 3 times what it should be based onr income level. But then the facts are just nasty things that liberals use to show that evil thing called the truth.

counting Social Security, and Medicare money as taxes paid is unfair. Since for most, you eventual get more then you put in.

Or are you going to say the old have a negative tax rate when they get those 'taxes' back?

 

[cybrsage]

EDITED POST FOR 2010 INFO.

"But right now, the fact (is) that according to the Committee on Joint Taxation, 51 percent -- that is, a majority of American households -- paid no income tax in 2009. Zero. Zip. Nada. … Actually, to show how out of whack things have gotten, 30 percent of American households actually made money from the tax system by way of refundable tax credits -- the Earned Income Tax Credit, among others. So 51 percent of American households paid no income tax in 2009, but 30 percent actually made money under the current system."

In a sign that this is becoming a Republican talking point, Cornyn’s comments echoed those made on the floor the same day by Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah.

So, is it true that a majority of Americans aren’t paying any federal income tax? The answer is that Cornyn is correct. And the backstory is interesting.

As Cornyn noted, his statistics come from a document produced by the Joint Committee on Taxation, a respected bipartisan committee of Congress. The JCT found that for tax year 2009, roughly 22 percent of "tax units" (not exactly "households," but we’ll give Cornyn a pass on the terminology) ended up without any tax liability. Another 30 percent got money back from the government, through mechanisms such as the Earned Income Tax Credit, a longstanding policy that encourages low-income Americans to work by refunding money through the tax code. By contrast, JCT found just 49 percent of Americans owed anything to the government.

Figures from the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center show that since 2004, the percentage of no-liability tax units has been as low as 39.9 percent in 2007. In fact, 2009 -- the year Cornyn cited -- may prove to be a high point. The center’s projections suggest that the rate could fall to 49.5 percent for tax year 2010 and 46.4 percent in 2011.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ornyn-says-51-percent-american-households-pa/

 

[soundforbjt]

EDITED POST FOR 2010 INFO.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ornyn-says-51-percent-american-households-pa/

And a over a third 33+% of corporations pay no income tax and some receive refunds as well and make far more money than the 47+% of the little folks that pay none.

 

[FuzzyBee]

Perhaps all of you clamoring for "fair" should define what "fair" means to you.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

And a over a third 33+% of corporations pay no income tax and some receive refunds as well and make far more money than the 47+% of the little folks that pay none.

Raising taxes isn't going to do anything to provide jobs. Why don't we reward those who have track records for hiring or have implemented to long term employment growth? Businesses get breaks and we have people working. On the other hand of they continue to move jobs overseas then the carrot goes away.

 

[IGBT]

the usual empty soaring rhetoric littered with class envy and his bent view of hope/change/ and boohoo fairness.

 

[soundforbjt]

Raising taxes isn't going to do anything to provide jobs. Why don't we reward those who have track records for hiring or have implemented to long term employment growth? Businesses get breaks and we have people working. On the other hand of they continue to move jobs overseas then the carrot goes away.

Well, they kept getting rewarded over the last 30 years ( lowest tax rates in recent history) and they still aren't creating jobs. Should they be rewarded further for their failure?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Well, they kept getting rewarded over the last 30 years ( lowest tax rates in recent history) and they still aren't creating jobs. Should they be rewarded further for their failure?

I didn't say reward them for their failure. What I mean is use taxation to promote job creation. The two aren't equivalent. The past 30 years doesn't help fix the future. Taking constructive action can.

 

[RedChief]

Well, they kept getting rewarded over the last 30 years ( lowest tax rates in recent history) and they still aren't creating jobs. Should they be rewarded further for their failure?

...but the highest corporate tax rates in the western world. Yea our taxes are lower now then before but we still tax more then our competitors.

 

[soundforbjt]

...but the highest corporate tax rates in the western world. Yea our taxes are lower now then before but we still tax more then our competitors.

And a third pay no taxes. Shouldn't they be creating jobs like crazy?

 

[Aikouka]

EDITED POST FOR 2010 INFO.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ornyn-says-51-percent-american-households-pa/

It sounds like the point that people are trying to make is that people are getting a free ride, but the description of the percentages seems to be vague enough to include people that shouldn't be included. See below...

The JCT found that for tax year 2009, roughly 22 percent of "tax units" ended up without any tax liability.

Does this include anyone who doesn't owe after completing their taxes? Wouldn't that include people who work out their deductions so they don't owe anything?

Another 30 percent got money back from the government

Doesn't this also include the opposite of the people that I mentioned above? What I mean by that is the people that don't work out their deductions and end up paying too much.

 

[dank69]

And a over a third 33+% of corporations pay no income tax and some receive refunds as well and make far more money than the 47+% of the little folks that pay none.

100% of people polled report that they would rather be a 1%er paying big taxes than a 47%er paying no taxes. Yet GOP still try to paint the 47% as the ones that need to pay more.

 

[dank69]

It sounds like the point that people are trying to make is that people are getting a free ride, but the description of the percentages seems to be vague enough to include people that shouldn't be included. See below...

Does this include anyone who doesn't owe after completing their taxes? Wouldn't that include people who work out their deductions so they don't owe anything?

Doesn't this also include the opposite of the people that I mentioned above? What I mean by that is the people that don't work out their deductions and end up paying too much.

I believe it also includes old people drawing SS.

 

[First]

A majority of Americans agree with progressive taxes and higher taxes though, so fairness is quite American currently (and for a while now).

http://www.pollingreport.com/budget.htm

What a joke.

Yes, the content of your posts are quite poor.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

This whole thing about class warfare is nonsense.

Taxes have never been lower at any point in our history in the last century or so. Raising them up a few percentage points on the very wealthy isn't going to do anything negative to our economy. We are broke, we need to pay our bills. We can either slash programs everyone loves or ask the rich to pay what they used to.

I think we can and should do both. Most Americans agree.

 

[Aikouka]

I believe it also includes old people drawing SS.

Well, what I was trying to get at is that if what I said is true, then the article is trying to spin the data in a rather negative light. Note how the first paragraph seems to try to paint these people as leeches... "51% of 'tax units' pay no taxes!" However, the two situations that I pointed out that fit into the percentage's descriptions are people that most certainly do pay taxes.

 

[umbrella39]

Looks like a hit and run OP...

add to list of things that could improve in P&N

 

[FuzzyBee]

Perhaps all of you clamoring for "fair" should define what "fair" means to you.

Anyone?

 

[LegendKiller]

This whole thing about class warfare is nonsense.

Taxes have never been lower at any point in our history in the last century or so. Raising them up a few percentage points on the very wealthy isn't going to do anything negative to our economy. We are broke, we need to pay our bills. We can either slash programs everyone loves or ask the rich to pay what they used to.

I think we can and should do both. Most Americans agree.

Very good post.

I wonder if the OP thinks Carried Interest is "fair". How whether capital accretion through favorable taxation is "fair", especially once you get a plutocracy.

 

[dmcowen674]

Looks like a hit and run OP...

add to list of things that could improve in P&N

Won't happen. They let people like the OP run the forum.