Obama staffers pull their bogus Ohio ballots

[351Cleveland]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10..._ohio_ballo_135152.htm

Thirteen campaign workers for Barack Obama yesterday yanked their voter registrations and ballots in Ohio after being warned by a prosecutor that temporary residents can't vote in the battleground state.

A dozen staffers - including Obama Ohio spokeswoman Olivia Alair and James Cadogan, who recently joined Team Obama - signed a form letter asking the Franklin County elections board to pull their names from the rolls.

The letter - a copy of which was obtained by palestra.net, a Fox News affiliate - came a day after prosecutor Ron O'Brien publicly urged out-of-state campaign workers for both Obama and John McCain to "examine your conscience" before the elections board beings begins opening absentee ballots today.

Earlier in the week, O'Brien spoke with lawyers for both camps and urged them to make sure their staffs met permanent-residency rules, or face possible felony charges.

Also pulling his ballot yesterday was Hofstra University grad Jake Smith, an Obama volunteer who had voted in Knox County, Ohio.

On Thursday, O'Brien cut a deal with 13 out-of-staters, including four from New York, who tossed out their already-cast ballots and admitted they didn't meet residency requirements.

Oops. I wonder if ACORN helped them register?

 

[Butterbean]

They will get to keep their Che poster to boot. Pretty much sums the situation up. Most corrupt election in history and the dummies dont see it despite the clarity. They prefer the bright shining lie.

 

[351Cleveland]

oh I can probably give them the benefit of the doubt UNTIL we find out they voted at home too. Let's see if the press can follow through.

 

[Jhhnn]

Nice spin from the Rev Moon's rag.

Remarkably vague, too, in that no specific violation is mentioned.

Ohio law stipulates that you're a resident if you take a job in Ohio, and are subject to their requirements wrt driver's license, vehicle registration and insurance requirements-

http://www.bmv.ohio.gov/misc/new_resident.htm

But the prosecutor seems to be making demands beyond what's stated here-

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS...rmation/regToVote.aspx

Looks like a case of trying to have it both ways, with those singled out knuckling under to avoid trouble...

Vote suppression, anybody?

 

[Miklebud]

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Ron O'Brien publicly urged out-of-state campaign workers for both Obama and John McCain to "examine your conscience" before the elections board beings begins opening absentee ballots today.

What about the McCain staffers? Have they pulled their votes?

 

[Jhhnn]

Originally posted by: Miklebud

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Ron O'Brien publicly urged out-of-state campaign workers for both Obama and John McCain to "examine your conscience" before the elections board beings begins opening absentee ballots today.

What about the McCain staffers? Have they pulled their votes?

Shush, You! None of the Faithful want to know about that!

Attack! Attack! Attack!

 

[heyheybooboo]

This is actually common on both sides. When you use out-of-state workers on your campaign and the 'relocation' is only temporary in most states that ain't kosher if they vote.

This guy actually voted twice - in a primary and subsequent runoff.

It caused a semi-controversy when the DA (who was buddy-buddy with the candidate) refused to indict him after a state BOE investigation. The previous DA got tossed in the next election when he tried to run for district judge. The new DA indicted the guy.

Though it's a felony I think Lay got off with 100 hours of community service (after the campaign paid around $20,000.00 in legal fees for him).

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Butterbean
They will get to keep their Che poster to boot. Pretty much sums the situation up. Most corrupt election in history and the dummies dont see it despite the clarity. They prefer the bright shining lie.

Pabster, is that you?

 

[BoomerD]

IF these folks met the voting requirements of the state they're working in, AND they aren't voting in their "home" state, where's the problem?

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
oh I can probably give them the benefit of the doubt UNTIL we find out they voted at home too. Let's see if the press can follow through.

Uh, no. Giving up a vote in a meaningless state to vote in a swing state is not alright.

Originally posted by: BoomerD
IF these folks met the voting requirements of the state they're working in, AND they aren't voting in their "home" state, where's the problem?

That would be fine, but apparently they don't meet the requirements to vote in Ohio (permanent residency).

 

[BoomerD]

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos...ion/VRinstructions.pdf

"VOTER REGISTRATION
INFORMATION
Eligibility
You are qualified to register to vote in Ohio if you meet all the following requirements:
1. You are a citizen of the United States.
2. You will be at least 18 years old on or before the day of the general election.
3. You will be a resident of Ohio for at least 30 days immediately before the election in which you want to vote.
4. You are not incarcerated (in jail or prison) for a felony conviction under the laws of Ohio, another state or the United States.
5. You have not been declared incompetent for voting purposes by a probate court.
6. You have not been permanently denied the right to vote for violations of the election laws.
You are eligible to vote in elections in your voting precinct held more than 30 days after you are registered to vote in Ohio."


http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS.../voterEligibility.aspx

"What are the qualifications to register and to vote in Ohio?
You are qualified to register to vote in Ohio if you meet all the following requirements:

You are a citizen of the United States;
You will be at least 18 years old on or before the day of the general election. (If you will be 18 on or before November 4, you may vote in the primary election for candidates, but you cannot vote on issues until you are 18);
You will be a resident of Ohio for at least 30 days immediately before the election in which you want to vote;
You are not incarcerated (in prison or jail) for a felony conviction under the laws of this state, another state or the United States;
You have not been declared incompetent for voting purposes by a probate court; and
You have not been permanently disenfranchised for violations of the election laws.
You are eligible to vote in elections held in your voting precinct more than 30 consecutive days after you are duly registered to vote in this state."


http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos...ion/constitution07.pdf

"ARTICLE V: ELECTIVE FRANCHISE
WHO MAY VOTE.
§1 Every citizen of the United States, of the age of
eighteen years, who has been a resident of the state,
county, township, or ward, such time as may be provided
by law, and has been registered to vote for thirty
days, has the qualifi cations of an elector, and is entitled
to vote at all elections. Any elector who fails to
vote in at least one election during any period of four
consecutive years shall cease to be an elector unless he
again registers to vote.
(1851, am. 1923, 1957, 1970, 1976, 1977)"



Hmmm...A quick, cursory search shows NOTHING about permanent residency being a requirement...

 

[mugs]

From your second link (BoomerD):

Ohio election officials determine a person's qualifying voting address using guidelines established by Ohio law (Revised Code (R.C.) 3503.02). Where an individual votes depends on where he or she is determined by law to reside. A voter may vote from only one residence. Your voting residence is the place in which your habitation is fixed and to which, whenever you are absent, you intend to return. Your voting residence should be one you consider to be permanent, not temporary.

 

[Jhhnn]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
oh I can probably give them the benefit of the doubt UNTIL we find out they voted at home too. Let's see if the press can follow through.

Uh, no. Giving up a vote in a meaningless state to vote in a swing state is not alright.

Originally posted by: BoomerD
IF these folks met the voting requirements of the state they're working in, AND they aren't voting in their "home" state, where's the problem?

That would be fine, but apparently they don't meet the requirements to vote in Ohio (permanent residency).

Not quite- apparently they don't meet the DA's interpretation of the requirements, and aren't willing to fight it. Doesn't mean the DA is right.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
oh I can probably give them the benefit of the doubt UNTIL we find out they voted at home too. Let's see if the press can follow through.

Uh, no. Giving up a vote in a meaningless state to vote in a swing state is not alright.

Originally posted by: BoomerD
IF these folks met the voting requirements of the state they're working in, AND they aren't voting in their "home" state, where's the problem?

That would be fine, but apparently they don't meet the requirements to vote in Ohio (permanent residency).

Not quite- apparently they don't meet the DA's interpretation of the requirements, and aren't willing to fight it. Doesn't mean the DA is right.

Please offer your own interpretation:
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3503.02


FWIW, I'm sure McCain staff members did the same thing. It doesn't really reflect poorly on the candidate, because they certainly wouldn't condone this. It doesn't say anything about Obama's supporters in general, because most of them wouldn't even travel out of state to support him. These people are the rabid supporters who would do anything to get their candidate elected, and both sides have people like that.

It is pretty sad when your blind devotion to a candidate causes you to defend voter fraud. At least BoomerD put the effort into researching before he defended them.

 

[chess9]

I see no basis for the prosecutor's position. If it had been an actual legal violation, he would have prosecuted as required by law. Instead, he used his bully pulpit to reduce the number of Obama voters. This is a case of voter intimidation by the Republicans. So, what's new?

By the way, your headline is misleading. There was no prosecution involved. You imply there was since you mention a 'plea deal'. You don't have pleas unless you are charged. Kapish?

Oh, and residence is almost always a case of INTENTION. Only the person knows his intention. Proving intention is rarely possible. This case would have been lost by the prosecutor in a heartbeat, IF he brought it. Which is why he didn't bring it. Obama has 4 times the staff of McCain, so the Republicans win this round.

-Robert

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: mugs
From your second link (BoomerD):

Ohio election officials determine a person's qualifying voting address using guidelines established by Ohio law (Revised Code (R.C.) 3503.02). Where an individual votes depends on where he or she is determined by law to reside. A voter may vote from only one residence. Your voting residence is the place in which your habitation is fixed and to which, whenever you are absent, you intend to return. Your voting residence should be one you consider to be permanent, not temporary.

BUT...you'll notice that they make an exception for college students who may not be "permanent" residents...

I think the intent of the clause you've posted is to prevent someone from living in say, Akron, setting up a temporary residence in Dayton just to vote there...

I think that trying to restrict the voting rights of those who travel for their work, but are in one place long enough to meet basic residency requirements should be illegal...and probably is.

I worked heavy construction for over 30 years. I would often be sent someplace for a year or more. USUALLY, in those cases, I'd take my family with me. When we all traveled together, I'd vote in the new location as a resident. I'd USUALLY pass on voting for the local issues as I generally didn't know a lot about the history behind them or care about them, but national issues (Presidency) and major state issues (Governor and Congressional races) I voted for.

When my family stayed behind, or if the job was short-term, I voted by absentee ballot in whatever location the family was in. (usually our home district)

Under NO circumstanced did I attempt to vote in BOTH locations.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: mugs
From your second link (BoomerD):

Ohio election officials determine a person's qualifying voting address using guidelines established by Ohio law (Revised Code (R.C.) 3503.02). Where an individual votes depends on where he or she is determined by law to reside. A voter may vote from only one residence. Your voting residence is the place in which your habitation is fixed and to which, whenever you are absent, you intend to return. Your voting residence should be one you consider to be permanent, not temporary.

BUT...you'll notice that they make an exception for college students who may not be "permanent" residents...

I think the intent of the clause you've posted is to prevent someone from living in say, Akron, setting up a temporary residence in Dayton just to vote there...

I think that trying to restrict the voting rights of those who travel for their work, but are in one place long enough to meet basic residency requirements should be illegal...and probably is.

I worked heavy construction for over 30 years. I would often be sent someplace for a year or more. USUALLY, in those cases, I'd take my family with me. When we all traveled together, I'd vote in the new location as a resident. I'd USUALLY pass on voting for the local issues as I generally didn't know a lot about the history behind them or care about them, but national issues (Presidency) and major state issues (Governor and Congressional races) I voted for.

When my family stayed behind, or if the job was short-term, I voted by absentee ballot in whatever location the family was in. (usually our home district)

Under NO circumstanced did I attempt to vote in BOTH locations.

I think it's generally pretty clear when a person has established a permanent residence in a location. For starters, if you're still maintaining a residence elsewhere, and you move back there after your temporary work assignment is done, then you shouldn't vote in the temporary work location (even if it's long-term). When you move you forward your mail, change your address on bank accounts, register your car in the new location, sell your old home or terminate your lease, etc. Those are indicators that you've changed your permanent residence. I don't think there is any question that these campaign workers weren't permanent residents of Ohio. Likewise, if there were campaign workers who lived in Ohio but were working in California temporarily, I don't think that they'd dispute that they're still permanent residents of Ohio, and they'd vote by absentee ballot in Ohio. You don't get to choose where you want to vote based on where it is most advantageous to your candidate.

 

[Vic]

Yawn.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: mugs
...
I think it's generally pretty clear when a person has established a permanent residence in a location. For starters, if you're still maintaining a residence elsewhere, and you move back there after your temporary work assignment is done, then you shouldn't vote in the temporary work location (even if it's long-term). When you move you forward your mail, change your address on bank accounts, register your car in the new location, sell your old home or terminate your lease, etc. Those are indicators that you've changed your permanent residence. I don't think there is any question that these campaign workers weren't permanent residents of Ohio. Likewise, if there were campaign workers who lived in Ohio but were working in California temporarily, I don't think that they'd dispute that they're still permanent residents of Ohio, and they'd vote by absentee ballot in Ohio. You don't get to choose where you want to vote based on where it is most advantageous to your candidate.

There are quite a few people, usually retired, who have residences in both oh (in, mi, etc) and florida. They spend ~half a year in each. Which is there permanent one?

Many will attempt to make florida their permanent one since the tax situation is better there for some. I don't remember the details of how this is accomplished.

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: mugs
...
I think it's generally pretty clear when a person has established a permanent residence in a location. For starters, if you're still maintaining a residence elsewhere, and you move back there after your temporary work assignment is done, then you shouldn't vote in the temporary work location (even if it's long-term). When you move you forward your mail, change your address on bank accounts, register your car in the new location, sell your old home or terminate your lease, etc. Those are indicators that you've changed your permanent residence. I don't think there is any question that these campaign workers weren't permanent residents of Ohio. Likewise, if there were campaign workers who lived in Ohio but were working in California temporarily, I don't think that they'd dispute that they're still permanent residents of Ohio, and they'd vote by absentee ballot in Ohio. You don't get to choose where you want to vote based on where it is most advantageous to your candidate.

There are quite a few people, usually retired, who have residences in both oh (in, mi, etc) and florida. They spend ~half a year in each. Which is there permanent one?

Many will attempt to make florida their permanent one since the tax situation is better there for some. I don't remember the details of how this is accomplished.

I think your permanent residence is the address you use on your IRS Forms. The other one is considered a vacation home.

 

[Jhhnn]

You don't get to choose where you want to vote based on where it is most advantageous to your candidate.

And you don't get to impose the requirements of residency w/o the rights of residency, either, which is essentially the position taken by the Ohio prosecutor...

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: seemingly random
There are quite a few people, usually retired, who have residences in both oh (in, mi, etc) and florida. They spend ~half a year in each. Which is there permanent one?

Many will attempt to make florida their permanent one since the tax situation is better there for some. I don't remember the details of how this is accomplished.

Whatever the law says... probably the one where they spend the most time. None of this is really relevant to this thread, which is about people who apparently have a clear permanent residence that isn't in Ohio.

Originally posted by: Jhhnn

You don't get to choose where you want to vote based on where it is most advantageous to your candidate.

And you don't get to impose the requirements of residency w/o the rights of residency, either, which is essentially the position taken by the Ohio prosecutor...

Go ahead and answer my question about how you would interpret the Ohio law that defines residency requirements for elections.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: mugs
...
I think it's generally pretty clear when a person has established a permanent residence in a location. For starters, if you're still maintaining a residence elsewhere, and you move back there after your temporary work assignment is done, then you shouldn't vote in the temporary work location (even if it's long-term). When you move you forward your mail, change your address on bank accounts, register your car in the new location, sell your old home or terminate your lease, etc. Those are indicators that you've changed your permanent residence. I don't think there is any question that these campaign workers weren't permanent residents of Ohio. Likewise, if there were campaign workers who lived in Ohio but were working in California temporarily, I don't think that they'd dispute that they're still permanent residents of Ohio, and they'd vote by absentee ballot in Ohio. You don't get to choose where you want to vote based on where it is most advantageous to your candidate.

There are quite a few people, usually retired, who have residences in both oh (in, mi, etc) and florida. They spend ~half a year in each. Which is there permanent one?

Many will attempt to make florida their permanent one since the tax situation is better there for some. I don't remember the details of how this is accomplished.

I think your permanent residence is the address you use on your IRS Forms. The other one is considered a vacation home.

Not true. You can put anything on your IRS form. They don't require your residence address. They want AN address. Besides, they can find you if they need to.

-Robert

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: mugs
...
I think it's generally pretty clear when a person has established a permanent residence in a location. For starters, if you're still maintaining a residence elsewhere, and you move back there after your temporary work assignment is done, then you shouldn't vote in the temporary work location (even if it's long-term). When you move you forward your mail, change your address on bank accounts, register your car in the new location, sell your old home or terminate your lease, etc. Those are indicators that you've changed your permanent residence. I don't think there is any question that these campaign workers weren't permanent residents of Ohio. Likewise, if there were campaign workers who lived in Ohio but were working in California temporarily, I don't think that they'd dispute that they're still permanent residents of Ohio, and they'd vote by absentee ballot in Ohio. You don't get to choose where you want to vote based on where it is most advantageous to your candidate.

There are quite a few people, usually retired, who have residences in both oh (in, mi, etc) and florida. They spend ~half a year in each. Which is there permanent one?

Many will attempt to make florida their permanent one since the tax situation is better there for some. I don't remember the details of how this is accomplished.

I think your permanent residence is the address you use on your IRS Forms. The other one is considered a vacation home.

Not true. You can put anything on your IRS form. They don't require your residence address. They want AN address. Besides, they can find you if they need to.

-Robert

Then how are you going to deduct mortgage interest and property taxes on two places?

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: mugs
...
I think it's generally pretty clear when a person has established a permanent residence in a location. For starters, if you're still maintaining a residence elsewhere, and you move back there after your temporary work assignment is done, then you shouldn't vote in the temporary work location (even if it's long-term). When you move you forward your mail, change your address on bank accounts, register your car in the new location, sell your old home or terminate your lease, etc. Those are indicators that you've changed your permanent residence. I don't think there is any question that these campaign workers weren't permanent residents of Ohio. Likewise, if there were campaign workers who lived in Ohio but were working in California temporarily, I don't think that they'd dispute that they're still permanent residents of Ohio, and they'd vote by absentee ballot in Ohio. You don't get to choose where you want to vote based on where it is most advantageous to your candidate.

There are quite a few people, usually retired, who have residences in both oh (in, mi, etc) and florida. They spend ~half a year in each. Which is there permanent one?

Many will attempt to make florida their permanent one since the tax situation is better there for some. I don't remember the details of how this is accomplished.

I think your permanent residence is the address you use on your IRS Forms. The other one is considered a vacation home.

Not true. You can put anything on your IRS form. They don't require your residence address. They want AN address. Besides, they can find you if they need to.

-Robert

Then how are you going to deduct mortgage interest and property taxes on two places?

A. Only if you have it to deduct.
b. You just list the amount!
c. In the address block many people put a post office address. I did that for 30 years!

-Robert