Obama Speech on Jobs

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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,592
28,666
136
I'm sure more spending will turn the economy around and create jobs. If we keep doing the same thing over and over we'll get different results.

You mean like tax cuts mainly for upper income earners? Bush tax cuts worked out pretty well.

Hate to rain on your parade. Take a look at the GDP. The economy was cratering into depression. Shrinking at 6.4% is catastrophic. Came back after stimulus was enacted.

GDP%20est1%202010-Q2-thumb-570x298-30520.png
 
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cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Ah, I think I understand Craig234 now. "Left" must mean anything that transfers wealth from "the rich" to "the poor". While "Right" then means anything that does not transfer wealth from "the rich" to "the poor". Clarifies a lot of confusion.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,156
6,317
126
I think he's going to offer free guns to the unemployed, the homeless, and those in foreclosure with hungry kids and then mention who stands in the way of him getting a jobs bill passed.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
I swear this forum just continues to regress, spew shit just because of partisan party allegiance...

Reagan increased spending. Bush increased spending. Obama increased spending.

The guy you are responding to wants spending cut.

BASIC SIMPLE FACTS HERE

You keep writing "to the right" or "far-right policies" or whatever else crap you continue to spew. Stop labeling stuff and just call it what it is. We know what the changes in tax levels have been. We know what the changes in spending has been. Talk about things as they are. Instead you just want to use labels "left" and "right" and anything you hate you just call "right" to avoid having to actually deal with the specifics. Call things what they are.



I want you to confirm it right now, in your view is "increased spending" equivalent to "sharp turn to the right"? Because I don't think so.

No, you're projecting your own left-right bias and ideology.

When I write things like how since Reagan, the bottom 80% of Americans have gotten zero of the economy's growth after inflation, when I talk about how the top 1% have more than double not their income, but their share of income, those are 'facts', not 'left right'. But you can't get that.

In answer to your question, no. Reducing taxes for the wealthy, deregulation, the corporations effectively running government - those are 'shifts to the right'.

If you want a turning point, it was when the political shift occurred between the founding fathers' 'You now have a democracy, celebrate' to Reagan's 'the government is the problem'. Democracy has always been inconsistent with plutocracy, and as we grow more and more towards plutocracy, the anti-democracy sentiment is fed by the wealthy.

Liberals have no problem saying we've had a big spending problem since Reagan started massive deficits. That's 'starve the beast', which is a right-wing strategy.

The issue with that is where to cut. Part of it is reduced tax rates on the wealthy. Another part is wasteful spending - too much on corporate tax breaks, defense etc.

No Democrat in history has had the peacetime deficit problems you rant about - deficits were modest before Reagan, they were eliminated by Clinton, and the only other time is the economic crisis recovery under Obama, creating a very unusual situation for deficits.

Increasing the debt to a level to force spending cuts on otherwise affordable programs benefiting the public is a *right-wing* strategy.

Don't like the label? Oh, well. That's the situation.

You are probably confused between the policies and the sales pitch. 'Right-wing' can mean the policies - make the rich richer, move towards plutocracy - and it can mean the sales pitch, all the noble 'we like freedom, we like people doing good things, we stand for liberty' type stuff that sounds good and gets people to say they're a conservative. (Though it's less positive stuff and more 'liberals suck, they want Stalin' type straw men).

Which political faction's budget balances the budget - what you say you care about - the fastest? Not Paul Ryan's extremist 'austerity 'budget that sends the bill for the money grab by the rich to the rest of the country. It's the 'People's budget' by the progressive caucus. Guess they don't love deficits all that much.

In fact, progressives, among many reasons not to like deficits, have a big one: deficits mean huge sums having interest payments go to the money loaners.

Those money loaners are often wealthy groups - banks, China, whoever - and progressives don't want to see a big percentage of our budget pay them more.

You want to take off the party labels? Then deal with the fact that the rich have had a huge class war money grab for 30 years.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
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Ah, I think I understand Craig234 now. "Left" must mean anything that transfers wealth from "the rich" to "the poor". While "Right" then means anything that does not transfer wealth from "the rich" to "the poor". Clarifies a lot of confusion.

Translation: you're ignorant.

Though in the current environment, when the rich have concentrated wealth far too much, ya, the policies needed are to reverse that to a better balance.

Your version is wrong.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
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I think he's going to offer free guns to the unemployed, the homeless, and those in foreclosure with hungry kids and then mention who stands in the way of him getting a jobs bill passed.

Guns? That's bi-partisan. Will the Republicans oppose another policy they supported?

He's just implementing those 'second amendment remedies' Republicans promoted.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
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The political problem for Democrats is, Republicans got to have their noses rubbed in their mess after the great depression for three years, 1929-1932.

The public had no doubt whose mess it was.

Obama - and he's no FDR already - came in almost immediately, and the effects of the Republican crash have been on his watch, so he gets blamed.

All Republicans have had to do is to block the policies to improve things by abusing the filibuster, which they were unable to do to FDR.

(Though the Supreme Court blocked some, slowing recovery).

If this crash had happened in 2005, it'd be a very different situation.
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
You mean like tax cuts mainly for upper income earners? Bush tax cuts worked out pretty well.

Hate to rain on your parade. Take a look at the GDP. The economy was cratering into depression. Shrinking at 6.4% is catastrophic. Came back after stimulus was enacted.

GDP%20est1%202010-Q2-thumb-570x298-30520.png
I think the stimulus definitely helped stop the bleeding. However, we learned in the Depression that government deficit spending for the sake of spending can't bring prosperity, it can only sustain a pale imitation of prosperity. Each time the largesse gets cut, the economy takes a proportional hit because those jobs are not self-sustaining, wealth-producing jobs, but merely artificial consumption.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
Nobody finds it strange that people are turning to the government to create jobs? Shouldn't the private sector create jobs instead of the gubberment?

As for tax breaks for businesses, that only goes so far.
 

brencat

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2007
2,170
3
76
end free trade and force companies to build factories in the USA - but that will never happen.

Can't force a company to stay in the U.S., you must entice them. How about dropping the corp tax rate and closing most loopholes? Maybe then GE can fire the 800 tax attorneys it employs to figure out ways to make enough energy star appliances in order to pay zero tax.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
Can't force a company to stay in the U.S.,

Sure you can.

Tell the company if they want to import goods, X percentage of that product "has" to be made in the USA.

If X percentage of the product is not made in the USA, slap a tariff on it so high, nobody will buy the product.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
I think he's going to offer free guns to the unemployed, the homeless, and those in foreclosure with hungry kids and then mention who stands in the way of him getting a jobs bill passed.

Mob rule, what every liberal dreams of. You wish. Stop hating yourself.
 

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
7,868
0
71
AP breaking news says Obama might go big with larger payroll taxes ($450 billion stimulus package).

Ron Insana on CNBC yesterday said that historically tax receipts were 18% of GDP, but currently only 14%.

Also said 20% of unemployed is construction workers.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,879
36,883
136
The national infrastructure bank is missing a zero and annual infusions in the $2-3B range to start. $100B in start up funds should let them leverage 5 to 6 times that (or possibly more) in private funds.

Also, states should be offered seed money (based on population) that must be met by a state government match to start their own I-banks.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Mark it, he's going after the SS HCE cap and doubling down on stupid.
Removing the payroll tax cap is morally wrong, but it's going to have to happen. Sooner or later, some President, be it Obama or Perry, is going to have to come clean. And it's gotta be sooner rather than later, because the excess is now a thing of the past.

"There's nothing in the lock box but IOUs. We spent it, all of us and all of it. Every President, Representative and Senator, whether or not you voted for him or her, no matter the party or what they said in debates or advertisements, spent it. Now we're going to have to eliminate the tax cap and hit you high earners harder, just as with any tax on income. And we aren't going to be able to raise your Social Security payments; your contributions will be even more out of line with your payments. Sucks for you that we have to do this, but think how much more it would suck for people who rely on Social Security if we don't do it."

I'm sure that there will be some high earners devastated by the removal of the cap. I'm sure that there are some people earning $150K who until recently were earning $300K and all their bills and lifestyle is based on $300K so that they are barely getting by on $150K, so that an extra few percent in taxes is going to force them out of their home. That happens with any tax increase; some people will be marginal and have major effects from a small increase. At the least, those people affected by the cap removal should be able to land much more softly than do those marginally solvent people at lower incomes. And it may teach some valuable lessons about conspicuous consumption and counting one's chickens before they are hatched.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,581
2,814
136
http://news.yahoo.com/ap-sources-obama-seeking-payroll-tax-cuts-214453500.html

Yahoo is reporting that the Jobs Plan will contain a call to increase (not sustain) the payroll tax cut for employees and to extend a payroll tax cut to employers.

Personally, if that's the lynchpin of his jobs plan I'd rate it an absolute non-starter and failure. Extending or increasing the payroll tax cut hurts Social Security's solvency. Employees who benefit from the cut don't create jobs. Employers won't benefit enough to create jobs, the savings will be pocketed. And finally, many employees (like me) won't see a single penny of savings and can't be counted on to "stimulate" the economy indirectly through spending.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,879
36,883
136

I do like how the Republican plan seems to be to quietly not support the plan yet offer little criticism or constructive debate in order to actually advance anything that might help the economy in a bid to....win the favor of the public who is increasingly dissatisfied with inaction and partisan bullshit in Washington.

The incumbents on both sides of the aisle should not be sitting comfortably and the only thing that is going to keep Obama in office is the total boringness/lunacy of the Republican slate.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,896
7,922
136
Nobody finds it strange that people are turning to the government to create jobs? Shouldn't the private sector create jobs instead of the gubberment?

People are stupid.

Under a false dilemma, between action or no action, they think the only solution to a problem is action. How do they choose to take action? Through centralized planning.

Under the pretense of saving the economy, you're going to kill it and exchange freedom for tyranny.
 

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
7,868
0
71
"The people of this country work hard to meet their responsibilities. The question tonight is whether we’ll meet ours. The question is whether, in the face of an ongoing national crisis, we can stop the political circus and actually do something to help the economy; whether we can restore some of the fairness and security that has defined this nation since our beginning.

Those of us here tonight cannot solve all of our nation’s woes. Ultimately, our recovery will be driven not by Washington, but by our businesses and our workers. But we can help. We can make a difference. There are steps we can take right now to improve people’s lives.

I am sending this Congress a plan that you should pass right away. It’s called the American Jobs Act. There should be nothing controversial about this piece of legislation. Everything in here is the kind of proposal that’s been supported by both Democrats and Republicans – including many who sit here tonight. And everything in this bill will be paid for. Everything.

The purpose of the American Jobs Act is simple: to put more people back to work and more money in the pockets of those who are working. It will create more jobs for construction workers, more jobs for teachers, more jobs for veterans, and more jobs for the long-term unemployed. It will provide a tax break for companies who hire new workers, and it will cut payroll taxes in half for every working American and every small business. It will provide a jolt to an economy that has stalled, and give companies confidence that if they invest and hire, there will be customers for their products and services. You should pass this jobs plan right away."
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/09/08/excerpts-of-obamas-speech-on-jobs/
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
http://news.yahoo.com/ap-sources-obama-seeking-payroll-tax-cuts-214453500.html

Yahoo is reporting that the Jobs Plan will contain a call to increase (not sustain) the payroll tax cut for employees and to extend a payroll tax cut to employers.

Personally, if that's the lynchpin of his jobs plan I'd rate it an absolute non-starter and failure. Extending or increasing the payroll tax cut hurts Social Security's solvency.

Not really, when the government pays the difference.

Employees who benefit from the cut don't create jobs.

Yes, they do. Our economy is 2/3 consumer based, and this is a very high rate of the money going into consumer spending, which creates jobs.

You seem to have a warped idea of the economy.

Employers won't benefit enough to create jobs, the savings will be pocketed.

You have a point there.

And finally, many employees (like me) won't see a single penny of savings and can't be counted on to "stimulate" the economy indirectly through spending.

Tens of millions of workers will.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
14
81
You mean like tax cuts mainly for upper income earners? Bush tax cuts worked out pretty well.

Hate to rain on your parade. Take a look at the GDP. The economy was cratering into depression. Shrinking at 6.4% is catastrophic. Came back after stimulus was enacted.

GDP%20est1%202010-Q2-thumb-570x298-30520.png

Rethugs would like to ignore recent history so the claim that the Stimulus had no effect at all which is a total fucking lie it stopped the bleeding but need to be much larger to jump start the economy.
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
I do like how the Republican plan seems to be to quietly not support the plan yet offer little criticism or constructive debate in order to actually advance anything that might help the economy in a bid to....win the favor of the public who is increasingly dissatisfied with inaction and partisan bullshit in Washington.

The incumbents on both sides of the aisle should not be sitting comfortably and the only thing that is going to keep Obama in office is the total boringness/lunacy of the Republican slate.

That's the plan - break the economy but avoid blame for it.

Responding would make it too obvious what they're doing.