Obama signals "flexibility" on Iraq withdrwal

[Xavier434]

The bottom line here is that I really do not care about the 16 month thing. I just want it to happen and I want whoever does it to be responsible about it and put in 100%. I feel that we have a much better shot that at that happening with Obama rather than McCain.

 

[First]

I'll believe it when I see it. I have little doubt he'll pull out in the timeframe he specified, or within a reasonable amount of time given the circumstances. Much more sensible than staying in what is currently the biggest disaster area in the world.

 

[railer]

Isn't it better to have a guy who listens to opinions and changes his views accordingly, vs a thick-skull who plants his flag, and never even listens to arguement from that point on, and will NEVER change his opinion, no matter what?

At the very least, aren't elected officials supposed to represent their constituancy, and shouldn't thier views mirror the views of those who elect them?

I know everyone loves to squeal "flip flopper" at any opportunity, but IMO it's better to have a flip flopper than a stubborn ignoramous. And no, that's not reffering to McCain, or anyone esle in particular.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Why you ask? Because he's not a retard like most lefties.

Statistically improbable: the left aborts our retards, the right elects their's president.

LMAO :beer:

Doesn't say much about the people that elect them does it.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Flexibility? Oh no, anything but flexibility, please.

No, no flexibility. I want our troops out of Iraq, soon. He promised to do so. And he promised no permanent bases, too, and I imagine that promise will get tossed out the window as well.

The only change we are getting is Obama changing his stance on the issues.

LOL it is sooo funny to see people support Obismal to the death when he lies to their face. He is supposed to be "change" for the better but he is an example of politics as usual. His supporters seem to be blind, ignorant or just plain foolish. He tells them one thing, does another, then they come here being apologists. They jumped all over hillary for her lies but when Obismal does it he's being "flexible". :laugh:

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Flexibility? Oh no, anything but flexibility, please.

No, no flexibility. I want our troops out of Iraq, soon. He promised to do so. And he promised no permanent bases, too, and I imagine that promise will get tossed out the window as well.

The only change we are getting is Obama changing his stance on the issues.

LOL it is sooo funny to see people support Obismal to the death when he lies to their face. He is supposed to be "change" for the better but he is an example of politics as usual. His supporters seem to be blind, ignorant or just plain foolish. He tells them one thing, does another, then they come here being apologists. They jumped all over hillary for her lies but when Obismal does it he's being "flexible". :laugh:

I think you mistake those who are voting for Obama as big fans of his. I believe the vast majority of them are voting for him because they are sick of what Bush and the Republicans did to this country over the last 8 years. I can assure you that if it was McBush vs your boy RP a lot of those supporting Obama would vote for him if he was the only other choice.

 

[bamacre]

At least with RP, you knew exactly what to expect. I'd take that over "omg, what's he gonna do next?" any day.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Vic


Thanks for helping prove my point.

That his platform of change is based on his message changing depending on the immediate audience, no problem.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Vic


Thanks for helping prove my point.

That his platform of change is based on his message changing depending on the immediate audience, no problem.

What you posted didn't say what you seem to think it said, but you and others here seem to have no problem crossing the line from intellectual dishonesty to downright liar in order to push your little agenda. It's a pathetic as it is transparent. If you actually believe the bullshit you spew, seek professional medical help.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: AAjax

"Oh come on. You expect a candidate not to consider his or her selling out? Because guys like Ron Paul don't give a sh!t about selling out, they are never going to be president. Its the sad truth..but when you're dealing with the general public, one absolutely has to put selling out high on the priority list if they want to actually win. "


[/quote]

fixed[/quote]

I don't care what you call it, because that doesn't change the reality of the situation. We're dealing with a populace that voted for Bush not once, but twice.

A candidate won't win by being squeaky clean. He'll literally win by convincing more people to vote for him than the other guy, no matter how he accomplishes that. Bush's campaign team recognized that and to their credit, they succeeded. I'd much rather Obama be accused of 'selling out' if it means he'll ultimately get more votes because of it.

In the end, it doesn't matter how much FUD the Republicans spread, they still won the last two pres. elections. its time for the Democrats to step up to the plate should they want to actually win this time.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Oh come on. You expect a candidate not to consider his or her electability? Because guys like Ron Paul don't give a sh!t about electability, they are never going to be president. Its the sad truth..but when you're dealing with the general public, one absolutely has to put electability high on the priority list if they want to actually win.

It's true. There is a political game out there and you need to play it so that it works in your favor if you expect to get anything accomplished. Obama is well aware of that. So is McCain.

Yeah, and when he wins, and electability is no longer an issue, is he going to go back to supporting the decriminalization of marijuana? Stand up to those trampling on the 4th amendment? Keep his promise of withdrawing the vast majority of troops in Iraq within 16 months? Keep zero permanent bases in Iraq?

Because if he doesn't, I'm damn sure gonna be here bitching. And likely, listening to you all apologize as well.

Bullshit. I won't apologize for anyone. Should Obama win, and in my eyes do an unsatisfactory job as president, I'll be the first to admit it. I have no interest in defending my vote no matter what. Only fools do that....

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: bamacre
At least with RP, you knew exactly what to expect. I'd take that over "omg, what's he gonna do next?" any day.

Yes, with RP we knew that he would do absolutely nothing.

Do you know how many of these threads we've had? It seems like some posters think they can post this exact same topic, over and over and over again for months (here's one from February), and then keep pretending it's something brand new OMG! Obama flip-flopped! when it's been the same thing all along.

 

[Vic]

Here's a question: if McCain said today that getting Roe v. Wade overturned and abortion outlawed is not something he could guarantee in his first term, due to the practical political realities involved, how many McCain supporters would be outraged? I wonder, how many of these same pro-lifers are upset that Bush has done practically nothing on this issue in his 2 terms in office, despite the fact that abortion was a key issue in his first election? Or what about his 2nd election and the gay marriage issue? How come Bush never came through on that?

What's the excuse here? Why are you apologizing for these 'flip floppers?'

Don't answer: it's rhetorical.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: bamacre
At least with RP, you knew exactly what to expect. I'd take that over "omg, what's he gonna do next?" any day.

RP is one of kind, but he's also as stubborn as they come and is indeed labeled kooky for a reason; he's denied the solid scientific foundations of evolution (has even suggested there are legitimate alternatives) and challenges Keynesian economics in favor of the completely unproven and unresearched Austrian brand. So while it's great that he's honest and predictable, it's also bad because he's completely unrealistic and, yes, absolutely nutty in some of the things he believes in. Other things, like the war (minus bringing every troop around the world home), civil liberties, and state's rights, are all great in my book.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: bamacre
At least with RP, you knew exactly what to expect. I'd take that over "omg, what's he gonna do next?" any day.

Too bad you don't have that choice as it's between McBush and Obama and we already know what McBush is going to do, we've seen it over the last 8 years.

 

[vhx]

Ah politics, I sense 4 years of the same no matter who we pick this next election. Isn't democracy great..... Is it even still two parties if two different people have the same exact goals? Goodbye, democracy.

 

[Double Trouble]

Obama could become a great name for beach footwear! New, they're not "flip flops", they're "Obamas"! They flip and they flop just the same, but have a different name!

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
Obama could become a great name for beach footwear! New, they're not "flip flops", they're "Obamas"! They flip and they flop just the same, but have a different name!

There's already footwear named after him, it's called Nunn Bush:laugh:

 

[Thump553]

The GOP is trying to paint Obama into a corner here so they can use their strawman arguments. If he called for immediate and unconditional withdrawal (which he never did) Obama is protrayed as an irresponsible surrenderer. If he calls for an orderly, reasonably switft but definate pullout he is a flip-flopper.

What Obama announced yesterday is essentially what he has been saying all along. Two things I especially like about his statements:

1) As president, it is he who will be making the policy decisions and instructing the miliatary brass to follow them out-unlike the vice versa system which is too frequently the case now.

2) By making it clear that the US will be pulling out, and pulling out in prompt, orderly fashion, he will be holding the Iraqi politician's feet to the fire. Every single commentator I have read or listened to that seems at all knowledgeable about Iraqi politics that I have heard echo a common theme-decision making in Iraq is a brinkmanship game, with decisons only being made when they absolutely have to be made.

Obama's plan has the best chance of "success" in Iraq, wheatever that is. McCain's open-ended, nebulous strategy (not a plan) will result in little, if any, change from the present situation, bleeding our country in men and money for no purpose. McCain gives no motivation to the Iraqi's to clean up their house, and in factdisencourages them-as it is the Iraqi perception from McCain's 100 year comments that he intends to colonize Iraq.

One more situation where intelligence and good judgment trump so-called experience.

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
Obama could become a great name for beach footwear! New, they're not "flip flops", they're "Obamas"! They flip and they flop just the same, but have a different name!

There's already footwear named after him, it's called Nunn Bush:laugh:

LOL, I hadn't seen that before

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Thump553
If he called for immediate and unconditional withdrawal (which he never did) Obama is protrayed as an irresponsible surrenderer.

:shocked:

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months.

 

[nageov3t]

He'll promise you more
Than the Garden of Eden
Then he'll carelessly cut you
And laugh while you're bleedin'
But he'll bring out the best
And the worst you can be
Blame it all on yourself
Cause he's always Obama to me

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Thump553
If he called for immediate and unconditional withdrawal (which he never did) Obama is protrayed as an irresponsible surrenderer.

:shocked:

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months.

You realize the quote you used supports Thump's argument and not your own, right?

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Thump553
If he called for immediate and unconditional withdrawal (which he never did) Obama is protrayed as an irresponsible surrenderer.

:shocked:

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months.

You realize the quote you used supports Thump's argument and not your own, right?

Only in you Obamamessiah state of delusion.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Thump553
If he called for immediate and unconditional withdrawal (which he never did) Obama is protrayed as an irresponsible surrenderer.

:shocked:

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months.

You realize the quote you used supports Thump's argument and not your own, right?

Only in you Obamamessiah state of delusion.

Your desperation is showing.