Obama secures veto override block on Iran deal

[woolfe9998]

Good. I support this deal strongly simply because it is better than any of the alternatives.

 

[Vic]

Looks like the Republican jobs program got blocked.

 

[Sonikku]

GoP complains about it the same way they complain about Obama letting illegals in or his use of Executive power, but for all practical purposes they won't do a damn thing about it. This is the party that was once willing to impeach over lying about a blow job! But no more. The GoP today has no balls. They've become a party of whiners.

 

[woolfe9998]

GoP complains about it the same way they complain about Obama letting illegals in or his use of Executive power, but for all practical purposes they won't do a damn thing about it. This is the party that was once willing to impeach over lying about a blow job! But no more. The GoP today has no balls. They've become a party of whiners.

Entering into a treaty they don't like is hardly grounds for impeachment. If it was, I'm sure they'd be all over it. As it stands, all they can do is bitch and vote against it, which is exactly what they're doing.

 

[pcgeek11]

I can hardly wait until Iran Nukes Israel.

 

[compuwiz1]

I can hardly wait until Iran Nukes Israel.

I'm taking this as a tongue in cheek comment. I don't think you hate Israel, but maybe if this happens it will prove a point?

I think we need to elect the socialist Bernie Sanders, also to prove a point.

 

[trenchfoot]

I'm curious how, if the Repubs ever manage to win the presidency, they are going to back up their claims that a better deal can be had.

I'm wondering about that because after all of the screaming and shouting over how the deal would immediately place Israel under imminent threat of being nuked by Iran and whatever else they could throw into the screaming mimi pot of political paranoia pandering, I've not heard a word from any Repub on the Hill over just what that "better deal" would consist of.

If I were the eventual Dem primary winner, I'd surely exploit this wonderful gift the Repubs have given them.

 

[Sonikku]

I'm curious how, if the Repubs ever manage to win the presidency, they are going to back up their claims that a better deal can be had.

I'm wondering about that because after all of the screaming and shouting over how the deal would immediately place Israel under imminent threat of being nuked by Iran and whatever else they could throw into the screaming mimi pot of political paranoia pandering, I've not heard a word from any Repub on the Hill over just what that "better deal" would consist of.

If I were the eventual Dem primary winner, I'd surely exploit this wonderful gift the Repubs have given them.

The "deal" would probably involve bombing them into the stone age.

 

[Newell Steamer]

I can hardly wait until Iran Nukes Israel.

Ah - just to say "I told you so."

Makes sense, you would prefer the death of 8 million people just to prove lulberals were wrong.

Look, I clearly do not like Israel, but, I don't want them dead.

You should get your head checked, you sound like a crazy person.

 

[trenchfoot]

The "deal" would probably involve bombing them into the stone age.

I can just see it now....Dick Cheney would be tapped as SecState, he'd round up every neocon that had anything to do with getting us into Iraq and Iran Freedom II that was strategerized years ago (right down to how many Halliburton execs would get those cherished solid gold toilet seats) would take off before anyone could blink twice in opposition to it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Because the conservative brain defect involves an enlarged right amygdala, the home of fear in the brain, you will always find conservatives pushing for other people to die fighting their demons, but it never works and not enough people can ever die for this fear to run its course. Fear is endless war, but it is never fought by the actual paranoids who are always old men who have power. When they were young and able to fight they had like Cheney, better things to do, like amassing power so others could die for them. Fear turns people into filth, cowardly filth.

Can you hear the serine call, calling all enlarged right amygdalas, we have an enemy over here we must get young men to destroy before they destroy us. Please don't concern yourself about your imaginary deaths. Liberals imagine a world that would be so much better without you. Nobody should be able to call for a war in which they are not the first to die. Every vote to go to war should be done in the form of mandatory suicide. Prove your concern if for your fellows and not you own psychotic state.

And then there are those who love war for the money they will make.

 

[Murloc]

I've not heard a word from any Repub on the Hill over just what that "better deal" would consist of.

waiting for Israel to bomb Iranian nuclear installations and get dragged into whatever war will ensue.
That way it's not their fault, it's those bad boys who tried to destroy Israel and they had no choice but to defend Israel.

 

[VRAMdemon]

Looks like the Republican jobs program got blocked.

Not only that, the GOP should thank themselves for putting up such a robust defense of the filibuster in the past so that Dems can simply quote something Ted Cruz or Mitch McConnell said years ago to support the filibuster-proof majority Obama has on yet another foreign policy accomplishment.

 

[Jhhnn]

waiting for Israel to bomb Iranian nuclear installations and get dragged into whatever war will ensue.
That way it's not their fault, it's those bad boys who tried to destroy Israel and they had no choice but to defend Israel.

It's clear that the US could no longer support Israeli aggression against Iran, provided that the deal is honored.

Which means Bibi's options in that regard have been cut off at the knees.

No War for you, Bibi!

Tears in my eyes as big as horseturds, I'm tellin' ya...

 

[blankslate]

I can hardly wait until Iran Nukes Israel.

You are either ignorant of Israel's open secret of a nuclear arsenal or are conveniently ignoring them....

That statement also presupposes that Iran is run by a bunch of irrational wackos who would willingly accept a retaliation upon their civilian population in order to nuke Israel... their willingness to negotiate with other countries over their nuclear capabilities seems to contradict that...

Now, about the rhetoric from some politicians and commentators? Well "irrationally wacko" seems to apply.


....

 

[Murloc]

It's clear that the US could no longer support Israeli aggression against Iran, provided that the deal is honored.

Which means Bibi's options in that regard have been cut off at the knees.

No War for you, Bibi!

Tears in my eyes as big as horseturds, I'm tellin' ya...

but Republicans didn't even want to accept the deal in the first place.

Of course, now that the deal is done and the US won't back out either, Netan'yahoo has lost that option, it would be too extreme.

You are either ignorant of Israel's open secret of a nuclear arsenal or are conveniently ignoring them....

That statement also presupposes that Iran is run by a bunch of irrational wackos who would willingly accept a retaliation upon their civilian population in order to nuke Israel... their willingness to negotiate with other countries over their nuclear capabilities seems to contradict that...

Now, about the rhetoric from some politicians and commentators? Well "irrationally wacko" seems to apply.


....

This is the part I don't get - the assumption that the iranian gov is willing to sacrifice their country.
They know that Israeli has second strike capability and the US would surely intervene in case of direct attack on Israeli territory by anyone.

The truth is that those who aren't happy about the deal simply don't want Iran to get economically stronger because they have opposing regional interests. They don't actually fear the bomb.

 

[Genx87]

I have this argument with my conservative friends often. They are convinced Iran is going to give a nuclear weapon to Hezbollah. The logical leap for a state to give away a weapon that powerful is long. The Soviets were run by a bunch of state religious nutballs call Communists. They kept those nukes under lock and key and didnt send them abroad to communist terrorist groups. The reason is simple. Once a nuke is out of the states control it can end up anywhere. Maybe back on your own soil.

I dont see Iran sending a nuke to Hezbollah with the possibility it will be lost, sent to ISIS, and then back to Tehran and detonated. Nuking Israel is also suicidal. The one thing about any kind of fanatical organization. The leaders rarely sacrifice themselves for the cause. I dont see the religious leaders inviting their own death by nuking Israel. Much easier, safer, and cost effective to have Hezbollah poking them over and over.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

The truth is that those who aren't happy about the deal simply don't want Iran to get economically stronger because they have opposing regional interests. They don't actually fear the bomb.

Agree. To me, the timetable differential for potential breakout is relatively moot in the scheme of things.

 

[realibrad]

This is the part I don't get - the assumption that the iranian gov is willing to sacrifice their country.
They know that Israeli has second strike capability and the US would surely intervene in case of direct attack on Israeli territory by anyone.

The truth is that those who aren't happy about the deal simply don't want Iran to get economically stronger because they have opposing regional interests. They don't actually fear the bomb.

I am for this deal vs nothing having a deal.

That being said, the worry is not really that Iran would nuke Israel directly. Iran likes to use proxies to do their work. I think the biggest fear is that they would give a bomb to a group to attack Israel. Also, if you think that it would be clear that Iran was behind it, and that we would do something, not likely. Many of our "allies" in that region do things to hurt the US, and yet we stick with them.

Even after all of that, this deal is better than nothing, so I would rather have it.

 

[CitizenKain]

I can hardly wait until Iran Nukes Israel.

I know I can't.

We have all these new toys from blowing up Iraq and Afganistan that are going unused, won't someone think of the PMCs?

 

[Murloc]

That being said, the worry is not really that Iran would nuke Israel directly. Iran likes to use proxies to do their work. I think the biggest fear is that they would give a bomb to a group to attack Israel. Also, if you think that it would be clear that Iran was behind it, and that we would do something, not likely. Many of our "allies" in that region do things to hurt the US, and yet we stick with them.

You're right that the proxies do bad stuff and the US ignores them, but nuking Tel Aviv is on a different plane.
Also Israel has enough power to destroy Iran alone anyway. They don't have any other nuclear enemy (Pakistan has other priorities), so they won't even await for proofs before striking.

I doubt that Iran has the technology to make a suitcase nuclear bomb, especially considering they don't have a nuclear bomb yet.
NK had nuclear bombs for years and they're not even able to deliver them yet.

I don't think the iranian leadership would be crazy enough to give such a nuclear device to Hezbollah.
1. the risk of being caught by Mossad is high
2. the risk of it backfiring/getting stolen, going off in Lebanon or any other stuff is too high
3. they will get destroyed anyway even if it was a proxy
4. you can't even get it into Israel, detecting radiation is not that difficult

The reason for opposing the deal is indeed that those proxies can only get stronger if Iran starts selling oil at full steam again and doesn't change its policies (although this may happen in the future if the detente continues).
That's bad for Gulf countries and Israel.

 

[realibrad]

You're right that the proxies do bad stuff and the US ignores them, but nuking Tel Aviv is on a different plane.
Also Israel has enough power to destroy Iran alone anyway. They don't have any other nuclear enemy (Pakistan has other priorities), so they won't even await for proofs before striking.

I doubt that Iran has the technology to make a suitcase nuclear bomb, especially considering they don't have a nuclear bomb yet.
NK had nuclear bombs for years and they're not even able to deliver them yet.

I don't think the iranian leadership would be crazy enough to give such a nuclear device to Hezbollah.
1. the risk of being caught by Mossad is high
2. the risk of it backfiring/getting stolen, going off in Lebanon or any other stuff is too high
3. they will get destroyed anyway even if it was a proxy
4. you can't even get it into Israel, detecting radiation is not that difficult

The reason for opposing the deal is indeed that those proxies can only get stronger if Iran starts selling oil at full steam again and doesn't change its policies (although this may happen in the future if the detente continues).
That's bad for Gulf countries and Israel.

I think the biggest issue I have is that you are looking at just Israel as being the victim. There is also the issue that a nuclear nation is much more lethal if we try to attack them. A non-nuclear Iran is much easier to attack than an Iran with a nuke. Even if Iran cannot launch a nuke, having one in a city would be very dangerous for an attacking army.

But, like I said, I am still for this deal. If the issue is that removing the economic sanctions will give Iran more money to do terrorism, it will. The counter to that is that many countries were already thinking of going around the sanctions. China's economy is slowing down, and so is Russia's. They will be looking for easy wins and a deal with Iran would help their economies.

This deal will likely make Iran better off economically. That will likely be okay if we are actually going to start getting access to Iran to monitor it. Iran was apparently very close to getting nuclear material. This deal at the worst gives us a little more time.

 

[Jhhnn]

but Republicans didn't even want to accept the deal in the first place.

Of course, now that the deal is done and the US won't back out either, Netan'yahoo has lost that option, it would be too extreme.


This is the part I don't get - the assumption that the iranian gov is willing to sacrifice their country.
They know that Israeli has second strike capability and the US would surely intervene in case of direct attack on Israeli territory by anyone.

The truth is that those who aren't happy about the deal simply don't want Iran to get economically stronger because they have opposing regional interests. They don't actually fear the bomb.

The problem for those opposing regional interests is that Iran's ascendancy has become inevitable despite our efforts to prevent it. Through blind arrogance, we actually facilitated that with the whole power vacuum debacle in Iraq & destabilization of the Syrian regime. Hell, the same thing happened in Lebanon wrt Hezbollah decades ago.

Another thing we need to recognize is that we're rightfully reluctant to start shooting for about a zillion reasons. Given past results, the public is more than a little gun shy.

One has to admit that Iran has played her hand masterfully, basically forcing us to negotiate or start shooting, something that even the Bushistas weren't prepared to do.

It's a win-win for them. If the Great Satan persists as they have for decades, then nuclear weapons are a justifiable strategic asset. If not, the preferred option, obviously, then the US must relent from the way we've treated them since 1978.

Make no mistake about it- in the larger picture, this is a huge victory for them & the best we can wrangle for ourselves short of naked aggression.

We don't have to like them to respect them. I figure they've earned it & that this is their big chance to emerge into the world of international diplomacy & commerce.

It's what they wanted all along.

 

[pcgeek11]

I'm taking this as a tongue in cheek comment. I don't think you hate Israel, but maybe if this happens it will prove a point?

I think we need to elect the socialist Bernie Sanders, also to prove a point.

Yes, to prove a point. I support Israel.

 

[pcgeek11]

Ah - just to say "I told you so."

Makes sense, you would prefer the death of 8 million people just to prove lulberals were wrong.

Look, I clearly do not like Israel, but, I don't want them dead.

You should get your head checked, you sound like a crazy person.

I don't want them dead either. Obama clearly does, or simply doesn't care. If something isn't done they will be if Iran has any say in it. Obama has clearly paved the way.