Obama says trillion-dollar deficits may last years

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kyle xy

Member
Jan 1, 2009
39
0
0
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: loozar111

Wonder how much Obama's first term will beat Bush's first term, or Bush's 2nd term. I remember when Democrats were crying about $100b or so in 2002 during the recession.

The more relevant question is, who's responsible for causing the problems that demand that much money to fix?

The Bushwhackos committed the nation to trillions of dollars of current and future debt (along with thousands of lives) when they launched their illegal war of LIES in Iraq, and they squandered trillions more when they dismantled all regulation and abandoned any remaining oversight over their wealthy Wall Street robber baron contributors failure.

They're the ones who left us with the problems. Now that those turds are skulking off into the sunset, don't start blaming the Obama adminstration for the cost of the mess the Bushies left in their wake. :roll:

Excuse me...first off...love your neutrality. I really do. Secondly; please inform me as to who wanted to keep regulations out of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Can you name the source of who likened the attempts to question Franklin Raines about Fannie Mae to a political lynching?

To say one party is responsible for our current situation is moronic at best. Republicans did some stupid things but remember without the Democrats voting for this "war of LIES" we would have been out long ago so please educate yourself before you start rambling like a 12 year old.
 

kyle xy

Member
Jan 1, 2009
39
0
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Originally posted by: JS80

I punch numbers into spreadsheets.

Ah, interesting. How did you find this line of work?

College, Major Econ, Minor Accounting => Public accounting => Private company, bust my ass.

I'm sure you can replace that with "engineering" or "law school" or "med school" or any other field.


I'm not sure what others are thinking, but making six figures as a talented CPA doesn't count as rich, or as proof of concept that the playing field can be levelled. Nor does being a successful doctor or engineer or lawyer. Making eight figures because you worked hard and then got very freakin' lucky makes you rich and influential. Actually, even more commonly, being born into money is what makes you rich and influential.

Maybe, but its people and couples making 6 figures that get bent over by the Obama tax code.
They seemed to do OK in the 90's when the percentage was the same as it's going to be for them under Obama.

Absolutely asinine. If you think that the top top rich will just sit back and let more and more of their money be siphoned off by the government than you obviously are not familiar with the accounting practices of those at that level. The truly rich have fantastic accountants who know the tax code by heart and can move money around to non-profit organizations, real-estate, or even off shore accounts. Generating additional revenue is not done by just raising taxes on these rich. Say what you will about them but they have to have some intelligence to have the kind of money they do and they know ways of keeping said money.

Please read about the Fair Tax code or the Flat tax proposals for some legitimate ways of increasing taxes in a "fair" manner.

 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Let's see here ... Bush inherited a $128 Billion surplus from Clinton, managed to post deficits every single year, he's now handing over a $1/2 Trillion deficit for '09 to Obama, who hasn't even taken office yet, and some idiot comes along and blames Obama for not balancing the budget. Wow! Only at P&N would you see something as asinine as this! Congrats OP! You've managed to set the bar ever lower.

Your sentiments are 100% dead-on but your numbers are off.

The unified Federal Budget surplus for FY 2000 was $237 billion. The projected deficit for the current fiscal year is now approaching $1 trillion.

From 1998 forward to FY2000 the US paid down $363 billion in Federal debt. Over the last 3 years (since January 20, 2006) Federal Debt has increased $2.46 trillion to a current $10.636 trillion (up over $500 billion since October 1st).

The Federal Debt to the Penny from the US Treasury.

You better revise the numbers again, the project budget deficit for '09 just went up. Again.

WASHINGTON ? The federal budget deficit will rise to a record $1.2 trillion this year, and a package of new spending increases and tax cuts planned by President-elect Barack Obama and congressional Democrats will push that figure higher, the Congressional Budget Office reported today.

USA Today

Your own post attributes the deficit in 2009 to Barack Obama.....

Reading comprehension: you're doing it wrong.

The budget deficit will rise to $1.2 trillion in '09 ... and spending increases and tax cuts PLANNED will PUSH that figure higher.

I think most people (perhaps yourself excluded) are perfectly aware where that $1.2 trillion deficit is coming from.

Those would be Obama's planned spending increases and tax cuts.

Okay let me spell it out for you, since you're obviously too dense to understand:

THE $1.2 TRILLION BUDGET DEFICIT IS THE DIRECT RESULT OF SPENDING POLICIES IN PLACE BEFORE OBAMA EVER SETS FOOT IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

Do you get it yet? Or are you going to continue to lie in front of everyone?
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Zebo
We need to seize the top 1%'s money. They own 28% of nations wealth and most did so by hook and crook. Thats the only way we will fix these issues and save country. Instead Obama is bought and sold by same crowd who will get rich beyond belief getting infrastructure contracts instead of trickling down. Sorry but thats reality of kelptocracy in which we live.

http://kelsocartography.com/blog/?p=1320

Bush has ruined the country financially beyond repair (FUBAR) to the tune of 10 trillion which is unrecoverable unless drastic measures are taken. Obama's plans about HC, education etc can't happen due to financial constraints the past admins, especially Bush put on him.

I would love to see your research on how you determined that the top 1% obtained their wealth through hook and crook. You do know what that phrase means, correct?

Yes by any means possible - bribing congressman for no bid contracts to taking out elected leaders abroad if they don't sign the right contract, etc. I didn't say all got their money this way, I mean their is always inheritance, being born in good market position and a few who rise from nothing. But that still does change the fact the disparity in incomes are too great in this county, it's a win big lose big economy, and the winners are the only ones who can afford to pay this massive debt load so why not get cracking instead of increasing it further? Waiting for a communist revolution when economy really crashes? Not to smart, on their part.

 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Seems a lot of you are suffering from Mythology of Wealth Like JS and Gen I like to quote this atricle in threads like these to maybe help explain why their Economics are nothing more than a religion.
_______________________

Many citizens of western industrial democracies like to believe that they have transcended their ?superstitious? pre-scientific past. In fact, a central tenet of our industrial culture is faith in its ?rationalism?. Much of the political debate centers around ?rational? social and economic policy. In fact, progressives frequently fail to take into account ?cultural? forces that frequently work against rational policies. Progressives regularly bemoan the ?ignorance? that cheap-labor conservatives are so good at exploiting to prevent seemingly obvious improvements in society.

In fact, the cheap-labor conservatives have counter-attacked with their own ?rational? theory to justify their hierarchical world-view. Some call it ?Social Darwinism?, though more politically savvy cheap-labor conservatives avoid that term. The purpose of this ?rational theory? is to establish that the existing social order is the ?natural order?. Elites enjoy wealth, privilege and status because of their inherent superiority. The place where this natural hierarchy is established, is that mythical place known as the ?market?.

Justifications for elites and social hierarchy goes all the way back to the pharaohs. For 6000 years, society has organized itself into social classes. The people who do the work are always in the lower classes. The harder and nastier the work, thelower down in the social order you sink. The people who don?t do this work must justify their position. They do it by establishing their ?worthiness?, and a variety of cultural devices have been concocted over the millennia to accomplish this. The pharaohs, you may recall, weren?t people at all. They were gods. Roman emperors likewise had themselves deified, and before that Roman Senators justified their position as ?patricians?. Basically, ?my great great granddaddy was a big shot, therefore I should be too.?

The middle ages gave us the notion of the ?great chain of being?. Outside the earthly realm ? in the realm of myth , that is ? there is Jesus and the ?heavenly host?. Just below the angels and saints is the king, followed by his entourage of muscle men otherwise known as the ?nobility?. Since kings were chosen ?by the grace of God?, they didn?t answer to ordinary mortals. At least they didn?t before Runnymeade, when the English nobility straightened out King John about where his power really came from.

This is the historical background for those famous words of Thomas Jefferson. ?Governments are instituted among men, and derive their just powers from the consent of the governed?. Everyone has heard those words. School children recite them. Few people appreciate that those words repudiated 6000 years of mumbo-jumbo to justify the existence of social classes and fixed elites. Elites don?t get their power from the gods, or from Jesus or from any other mythological source. Elites get their power from the people they rule. Power flows from the bottom up, not from the top down.

Old habits die hard. In fact, we still have a ?leisure class?. As capitalism has grown so has the wealth and privilege of our leisure class. The old mythologies ? gods, the ?great chain of being? etc. ? are no longer available to justify the existence and perpetuation of our leisure class, something our elites are definitely interested in perpetuating. What was needed was a new ?rational? world-view that justified the existence of privileged elites.

That rationalization came in the form of a brand new science known as economics, which included a brand new mythology.

According to the new mythology, human beings are economic competitors. The ?marketplace? is the new ?Valhalla?, where ?economic man? frolics. The ?market? we are told, contains its own ?rationality?. It rewards the efficient. It rewards that list of virtues George Will cites, like ?thrift?, ?delayed gratification? and of course, ?hard work?. Free competition in the market place ?rationally? selects the more ?worthy? competitor. Thus, the wealthy are the superior competitors who have ?earned? their elite status. If you haven?t succeeded it can only be because of your ?inferiority?.

Before debunking this whole ideology, a few observations are in order. First of all, notice that the hierarchical social order is back. It has a new veneer of ?rationality?, but it is the same old ugly reality. Elites are ?better? than you. The non-elites who do the work have ?earned? their position, and are proper objects of scorn. Thus, we have a handful of haves, worthy of admiration and respect, and a large class of industrial serfs who own nothing but their bellies. The theory has changed, but the reality is just the same. Not surprisingly, cheap-labor believers in the ?rational? hierarchy are hostile to democracy. In fact, they have decided that democratic government is an enemy to ?market efficiency?. What Thomas Jefferson won through debunking the old forms of social hierarchy, today?s cheap-labor conservative is busy taking back through his new ?rational? form of the same old shit.

And it is the same old shit. First of all, ?hard work? is only a small piece of the equation. In reality, success in the market is about market position. It isn?t about what you do, but about what you control. The hardest work is actually done by people whose market position makes their daily wage minimal. The person who profits most from their labor is the person who owns the factory they work in. While there are certainly examples of factory owners who started with nothing and rose to be ?captains of industry?, for the most part our captains of industry started out a lot further ahead of the game.

This is the difference between say, George W. Bush and you. Dubya went to prep school. You went to the public high school. Dubya went to Yale ? ahead of someone with better credentials because he had family connections. Dubya had wealthy friends, through family, ?skull and bones?, etc, who bankrolled his oil drilling business. Ask some of his friends to bankroll your oil business. Let me know if they stop laughing before their bodyguards throw you out. Even if you managed to persuade an investor to bankroll some enterprise, you?re going to have exactly one shot. If you lose, you won?t be getting a second chance. Dubya, on the other hand, went broke, and then his friends bankrolled him again, before finally getting him a one percent share of the Texas Rangers.

See how it works? People with money help each other out. They don?t help out people who don?t have any. Many cheap-labor conservatives don?t want to help out the destitute at all. They say government assistance to people will make them ?dependent?. They say it breeds ?inefficiency? and ?laziness?. They say that a harsh ?got mine, get yours? social environment breeds ?market discipline? by rewarding the most resourceful and competitive. Some extreme cheap-labor conservatives don?t even believe in public education. They say it is the family?s responsibility. If your family can?t afford to send you to school, well, that?s not their problem.

Of course, wealthy elites shower their own with benefits ? and enjoy a plethora of government benefits and services. They know the value of education, that?s why they keep expensive private schools like Andover in business. In fact, they do everything they can to give their own children every advantage money can buy, because they absolutely understand the value of a ?head start? in the fiercely competitive social jungle they have created. They talk about ?competition?, but they actually fear it, and do what they can to make the playing field as unequal as they can. Then they tell the wage earner that his position is ?his fault?, and that he just needs to work harder ? in their factory. He needs to more ?disciplined? and ?thrifty? if we wants to ?get ahead?.

You now see how society becomes divided between ?haves?, ?have nots? and that peculiar new ? but shrinking ? middle class animal, the ?have-a-little-want-mores?. But what do the ?haves? have?

Here?s where our discussion of cultural anthropology comes in. They don?t have anything at all, you don?t give them.

Are you scratching your head? ?What do you mean, they have ?nothing at all?? Property and money are something.? Property and money are as mythological as Zeus. The first thing they teach you in law school ? and I mean the first thing ? is that ?property? is a collection of legal rights. They are mental abstractions. They were created in more or less their present form in the middle ages by common law judges. They include things like ?alienability? or the right to sell your rights, ?inheritability? or the right to pass your rights to your heirs. They include the right to exclude other people from a defined section of planet earth. They include the right to subdivide or alienate less than all of your rights. For example, a person who holds ?title? to a house, can ?lease? it ? that is he can convey the right to ?possess? the land for a defined period of time, while he retains his rights that last ?forever?. He only has that right, because the law gives it to him.

Under our system of laws, the ultimate owner of all ?property? is the sovereign ? the government. That is who originally granted your ?rights?. Our system of laws and government defines your rights, and creates an entire infrastructure to regulate them. There are courts that will ?enforce? your rights ? that is send out the local muscle man known as the ?sheriff? to chuck ?squatters? off your property. Every state in the union has a system of publicly recording the documents that establish your ?title? in order to put the world on notice of exactly ?owns? what.

So, how are these ?property rights? created? That?s easy. They are created the same way all mythological realities are created ? with a little mumbo-jumbo.

?I, Conceptual Guerilla, do hereby bargain, sell and convey to John Doe and his heirs all of that parcel of land being more particularly described as follows: Beginning at a pin located . . . [insert your ?metes and bounds? description here]. To have and to hold in fee simple forever and ever, amen.?

In the old days, if you didn?t use the precise ?magic words?, you didn?t convey jack shit. The last I heard, South Carolina still holds that a deed to ?John Doe? without the magic words ?and his heirs? conveys only a life estate, even if you specifically say ?To John Doe in Fee Simple?.

Perhaps you are familiar with that thing known as ?legalese?. Maybe you?ve signed a contract ? contracts rights are also myths ? that starts something like this. ?For and in consideration of Ten Dollars cash in hand, the mutual promises contained herein, and other good a valuable consideration receipt of which is hereby acknowledged . . .[blah blah blah].? All you need is to imaging a guy in a pointed hat waving around one of those incense balls you see in church.

It?s all incantation and ritual that creates, transfers, modifies and extinguishes ?rights?. These rights are created by words uttered by the priests of the law. In fact there is an entire structure and system of pieces of paper with ?magic words? written on them that create, transfer, modify and extinguish these rights. There is a hierarchy of these rights. Contracts rights are ?private? rights created by individuals. Property rights are rights to the exclusive control of resources ? created often centuries ago by the king. Now those rights are traded around by individuals, usually by contract, but occasionally by the laws and infrastructure that transfer these rights to the descendants of dead people. Why don?t your ?rights? just die with you? Because medieval judges decided they didn?t. And that?s the only reason. The infrastructure for these ?rights? is established by the legislature, and the limits of what the legislature can do are established by the granddaddy of all legal documents, namely the ?constitution?.

All of the ?laws, ordinances, customs and usages? that regulate control over resources and relationships between people ? including their business relationships ? are nothing more than a set of rules invented by the imagination of some human being ? frequently one who has been dead since the middle ages. Those rights are frequently exchanged for ? get this ? printed pieces of paper with pictures of dead people on them. Where is the value of those pieces of paper? The answer is in your mind, in the mind of the person you are ?bargaining? with ? and nowhere else. It?s all a big game. It is our mythology, and it is no more real than belief in Zeus, Hera and Aphrodite.

The ?marketplace? ? the Valhalla of ?economic man? ? doesn?t exist without the mythological legal infrastructure. Change the nature of those property rights, and the very character of the marketplace changes. In fact, without the right to ?alienate? your ?property?, there isn?t a marketplace at all. Without a stable currency, laws creating a banking system, laws regulating the ?money supply? and other governmental functions, the marketplace is limited to barter. In fact, the idea that you can ?own? something you don?t immediately possess ? say the way people in New York ?own? West Virginia coal fields they don?t even know how to get to ? provides the whole basis for that thing we call ?industrial capitalism?.

Even your right to engage in a business enterprise with someone else is the subject of legal infrastructure. Partnerships have certain legal characteristics, and your rights as a partner ? what you can enforce in a court ? were defined at common law. [That?s the law created centuries ago by the king?s muscle men known as ?lords?.] State legislatures have since created a variety of new forms of ?business organization?.

?Corporations? are another mythical beast conjured into existence out of the imagination of human beings. These mythical monsters ? really just associations of people who have traded one set of paper symbols [dollars] for a different set with different rights associated with them [stock certificates]. Or maybe they ?lent? the corporation some of those ?dollars?, and got ?bonds? ? another paper symbol ? with still other rights associated with them. Lately, these ?fictitious persons? ? but really the people who control them ? have decided they don?t need ?big government? anymore. They control vast stretches of real estate, vast stores of raw materials, equipment, the buildings they are housed in, and they don?t want you, through your elected representatives, changing the game on them. They don?t want you playing the game either ? at least not on your terms. They want you working in ?their? factories, making as little as they can give you in exchange ? lest you accumulate your own property and paper symbols and out compete them. Some of them don?t even want you to learn how to read ? unless you pay for it with money they make sure you don?t have. That?s the game the cheap-labor conservatives defend.

Now lets take a fresh look at the words of Thomas Jefferson.

?That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.?

Can we change the game? Can we modify, regulate or even abolish those contract rights, those property rights or those business corporations? Can we use the power to ?levy taxes? and spend money for ?the general welfare? to do things like educate people, feed the hungry, and generally provide them with what Abraham Lincoln called ?a fair start in the race of life??

You?re goddamn right we can. Thomas Jefferson said so. The ?market place? isn?t a naturally occurring phenomenon. It is a human invention, created by our laws, customs and institutions. The vast fortunes of our elites are likewise the product of a mythological legal infrastructure that bestows access to resources to some people and denies it to others. ?Wealth? is just the latest in a long history of myths used to divide the world into the people who work and the people who live off of them. We created this mythological system, and we can change it if we feel like it. We can regulate it a little ? or a lot. We can modify any one of its elements, or all of them. Or we can abolish it altogether. It?s called ?democracy?, and you should now understand why cheap-labor defenders of the ?haves? don?t like it.

You should also understand something else. Cheap-labor conservatives are great respecters of ?tradition? and ?authority?. They behave as if the institutions on which their wealth and privilege are based are ?immutable? and ?eternal?. They talk about ?freedom?, until you challenge one of these ?cherished? institutions. Occasionally, they refer to their ?God given? property rights ? which are no such thing. They are great advocates for a harsh and punitive enforcement of the existing order of things. They believe in more prisons, more powerful police, a stronger military, generous use of the gallows and then they denounce ?big government?. It all makes perfect sense to them. Government exists to perpetuate the existing scheme of things ? specifically the ?eternal? institutions that empower them. But government has very little power to change the existing scheme of things. It has very little power ? some cheap-labor conservatives claim it has no power ? to create new institutions and new infrastructure that benefit anybody but them. That would be ?tyranny?. And of course the existing scheme of things is the ?natural order? ? not the human created institutions we now understand that it is.

Here?s the short answer to them. Government created property rights. Government can modify them. Government created the very market place where your fortune was made. Therefore, government can regulate the market place it created. Government can levy taxes against some of your fortune, and use that money to build other infrastructure that benefits somebody else. Government is not limited to creating the infrastructure you benefit from. Did government create ?corporations? to promote large scale industrial enterprises? No problem. Government can create the infrastructure for labor unions and collective bargaining. Is the industrial enterprise you own ?stock? in discharging toxic waste into the local river? Government facilitated your ability to build such a factory, and the government can tell you to clean up your mess.

The cheap-labor conservative ?minimalist government? social Darwinian world view is just plain bullshit. It builds a new class structure, which just like the ancient class structures, is based on a set of mythological concepts. In fact, those mythological concepts like ?property rights?, ?contract rights?, ?corporations?, ?stocks?, ?bonds?, and even ?money? itself are socially created to regulate distribution and access to resources. The ?market place? is a human creation. The details of how it operates are determined by the particulars of the institutions on which it is built. It is ?instituted among men?, and if its workings become destructive of the lives, liberty and pursuit of happiness of people subject to it, it may be ?altered or abolished?.

Cheap-labor conservatives would have you believe that poverty, ignorance, and environmental destruction are inevitable, and ?natural?. They are not. The only thing ?natural? about those phenomena is the natural proclivity of cheap-labor conservatives who lust for wealth and privilege to visit those plagues on people. Cheap-labor conservatives say we just can?t do anything about these problems. We can, and we have.

More importantly, we have a legitimate right to rearrange our institutions, system of laws, and government created infrastructure to extend the benefits of prosperity to everyone, not just a privileged few. No less an American than Thomas Jefferson said so.
http://www.conceptualguerilla.com/?q=node/402
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Let's take a look:

Congressional Budget Office: 2009 deficit will hit $1.2 trillion

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Wednesday, January 7th 2009, 10:18 AM

WASHINGTON - The federal budget deficit will hit an unparalleled $1.2 trillion for the 2009 budget year, according to a Capitol Hill aide briefed on new Congressional Budget office figures.

The aide says the CBO also sees a $703 billion deficit for 2010.

The dismal figures come a day after President-elect Barack Obama warned of "trillion-dollar deficits for years to come."

CBO's figures don't account for the huge economic stimulus bill that Obama is expected to propose soon to try to jolt the economy. At the same time, they do not reflect the immediate cost of the Wall St. bailout.

So the $1.2 trillion deficit exists now, independent of any additional deficit spending Obama engages in. It doesn't take a genius to see where this $1.2 trillion comes from. Bush's 2009 budget already included around $400Billion in deficit spending, another $400Billion spent bailing out Bush's buddies on Wall Street, a drop in tax revenues to the tune of $166Billion from Bush's awesome economy, the federal takeover of Freddie and Fannie was $240Billion and on and on.
 

m1ldslide1

Platinum Member
Feb 20, 2006
2,321
0
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
Seems a lot of you are suffering from Mythology of Wealth Like JS and Gen I like to quote this atricle in threads like these to maybe help explain why their Economics are nothing more than a religion.
_______________________

http://www.conceptualguerilla.com/?q=node/402

Thanks for sharing that - I enjoyed reading it. I don't think it could be more obvious that an American caste system is really just beginning, and that the middle class is on the way out. Somehow when people talk about the war on the middle class, skeptics think the implication is that there is a vast conspiracy to create a single underclass. I feel like this article addresses the fact that there is no formalized conspiracy - just the 'haves' watching out for their own interests and making sure that the competition is as skewed in their favor as possible. This isn't a radical new concept formulated at UC Berkeley by some PhD wearing a poncho - its as basically human as every other social instinct.

It's too bad that the media and half-brain pundits obfuscate all of this and chop a basic truth up into various political battles by tweaking emotional talking points. Of course they wouldn't do that if the sheeple didn't eat it up, so the blame falls on the consumer for not knowing enough to demand a better product. That is of course only going to perpetuate as the commoners get less education and more population until we really do have an underclass that learns to read only tabloids. We're pretty much there already.
 

Eeezee

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
9,922
0
76
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Thank you, winnar, for actually creating a relevant Obama post for once. I hope we'll see at least some decreased spending. Remember, we already have a trillion dollar deficit this year (once you include the $700B bailout on top of the rest of the spending).

Half of the $700B hasn't been spent. It doesn't count for the year 2008.

The congressional officials said Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson passed the word over the weekend that he intends to leave $350 billion untouched when the administration leaves office on Jan. 20.

Fine, so we're only at about $1.5 trillion instead of $2 trillion. So? Bush still passed the bill allocating that money, so I say the entire $700 billion is part of 2008 even if some of it won't actually be spent until 2009. That's how budgets work; even if you're spending in January, the money was still written off in 2008 instead of 2009.