Obama says health reforms will be "fully paid for"

[CPA]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Fully paid for by a huge raise in your taxes.

you seem to overlook the proposed mandate that everyone be required to purchase insurance or be subject to fine. If fully implemented and enforced this alone will create billions in revenue for a public plan.

But your obviously not interested in digging into the details and making informed comments, its much easier to just throw out another tired ignorant generalization.

yes, because fine != tax. :roll:

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Fully paid for by a huge raise in your taxes.

you seem to overlook the proposed mandate that everyone be required to purchase insurance or be subject to fine. If fully implemented and enforced this alone will create billions in revenue for a public plan.

But your obviously not interested in digging into the details and making informed comments, its much easier to just throw out another tired ignorant generalization.

If the plan is a requirement that everyone must pay, it no longer becomes "insurance", it's fully socialized medicine and paid for not necessarily called taxes, as it'll just be written down under a different column.

Pretty much the same as SS. SS is just another tax...a 16% tax. However, no one really truly thinks of it that way so that's why the gov't gets away with it. This is going under the same category.

 

[herm0016]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
[

Bad assumption, your assuming all the uninsured are unemployed and poor which is just not the case. The majority of the uninsured work for employers who will be required by law to provide insurance or pony up an equivalent amount in penalty. The unemployed and poor are already covered under medicaid in most cases

that sure sounds like a tax to me....
and how do you propose these small businesses pay for this when most are barely getting by anyway? raise their prices? or just close up shop and send a lot of employees on the street? seems like this will cost all of us a lot of money any way you slice it. Every business that is large enough to be able to afford care for their employees has it to some degree already.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
NPR spoke to this point on Friday and one of their people came in and said he's wrong; he's being disingenous by not talking about something like a $250B impact to the deficit, which is a result of this but he's pretending it's unrelated. I can't remember the specifics.

The math is clear on this. Companies with a lot of low end employees will benefit. If you can pay 8% of your employee's income to cover yourself, it's a ton less than what that employee costs otherwise, if he doesn't make that much. It's absolutely obvious that a ton of people will jump ship into gov plans when this happens.

Considering Wal-mart already supports universal health care, I don't think that's going to be the case.

No surprise, is it? They can pay some scant 8% of their employees' wages and then they're done for, no more whining or complaining or trying to figure out how to put a $10/hour person on a real health care plan, so in this case just let the gov cover the difference.

How is WalMart any different than any other retailer? Other than sheer numbers? Target certainly isnt an example of how to treat an employee...

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
Bad assumption, your assuming all the uninsured are unemployed and poor which is just not the case. The majority of the uninsured work for employers who will be required by law to provide insurance or pony up an equivalent amount in penalty.

nevermind the conservative estimate of 1+ million small-business jobs that will be lost as a result... :|

Key word. Gotta love the FUD. Its just as true as our troops being greeted with flowers.

That word has nothing to do with parties or politics in that sentence you twit, so please leave your partisan hackery at the door.

con·serv·a·tive /k?n's?rv?t?v/ ?adjective
2. cautiously moderate or purposefully low: "a conservative estimate"

How else do you expect the small businesses to afford the fine? They'll have to cut 8% of their staff, that's how. So yes, the estimate of 1+ million job losses is VERY conservative. The three largest and most respected small business organizations in the nation are the ones who presented the estimates, so I think I'll listen to what they have to say.

 

[theeedude]

"purposefully low" describes the conservatives to a tee.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: senseamp
"purposefully low" describes the conservatives to a tee.

fail.

Edit: I noticed that you haven't commented again on your ignorant comparison between the NYSE and the proposed Health Insurance Exchange... why's that kiddo?

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: herm0016

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
[

Bad assumption, your assuming all the uninsured are unemployed and poor which is just not the case. The majority of the uninsured work for employers who will be required by law to provide insurance or pony up an equivalent amount in penalty. The unemployed and poor are already covered under medicaid in most cases

that sure sounds like a tax to me....
and how do you propose these small businesses pay for this when most are barely getting by anyway? raise their prices? or just close up shop and send a lot of employees on the street? seems like this will cost all of us a lot of money any way you slice it. Every business that is large enough to be able to afford care for their employees has it to some degree already.

So small businesses that OMG can't afford to pay 8% to cover their employees or they will go out of business (OMG 1mil jobs lost per a poster here:roll should leave those people to be covered by medicaid or state welfare systems that you guys hate so much?

You guys love to play it both ways, medicaid is guboment welfare and is ruining our country but if we try and talk about taking millions of working poor off the medicaid rolls and putting them in the system with some responsiblity to the employer OMG WTF were creating socialism and ruining america.

We fully understand that your real pilosophy is let 'em pay or let em die, so you don't like either option medicaid or a mandated public plan. But the truth is the current medicaid system is much more a socialist plan that what is being proposed

And I love this little gem you threw out
"Every business that is large enough to be able to afford care for their employees has it to some degree already"

Look up the salaries of the top executives of the top 20 restraunt chains, then tell me how many of them provide insurance for their servers and waitstaff. The same applys to many industrys.

And the mandate as proposed would only apply small business with greater than 50 employees, so the arguments that the small guy starting out will get hammered are just not true. Show me a business owner that has more than 50 employees and isn't making at least a medium 6 figure income and I'll show you a tax cheat or somebody trying to hang on to a business thats no longer profitable.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Obama better watch it or he is losing my vote in 2012.

People said the same thing about Bush, until John Kerry came along.

Seriously, only reason I voted for Bush twice was because Kerry would've fucked us up even more IMO.

 

[piasabird]

I dont pay SS.