Obama "rewrites" US National security policy: Jihad, Islamic fundamentalism deleted

[woolfe9999]

Your thread title is a ridiculous hyperbole. It's troll bait.

And this is the second thread today on this topic:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2065247

- wolf

 

[Freshgeardude]

oh woops, my bad didnt see the other thread.


I thought about the title, but honestly, how else would you explain it

thanks to the mod for the thread merge

 

[woolfe9999]

Well this should definitely make the freedom fighters who are against our oppression in the overseas contingency operation hate us less.

If his messaging was truly aimed at the terrorists themselves, then this comment might actually be relevant.

- wolf

 

[her209]

Sounds like Obama is broadening the term to include extremists of other faiths.

 

[actuarial]

Yes it can. Hell it does everyday. If I'm walking down the street and I see a couple of guys who look like a gangbangers. I have no idea if they're gangbangers or not, or if they've done anything or not, but that impression is going to affect my actions around them.

Now am I going to immediately call the cops or pull out my concealed and shoot them over that assumption? Of course not. But I would be much more cautious in my dealing with them. Hell if I got to know them it's possible we could become the best of friends.

So IMO racial profiling is actually healthy if it is done with the knowledge that you are not making judgements, but assumptions; and in the event one specific assumption proves wrong you must be ready to compensate for any damage it may have caused.

Profiling itself is not a bad thing, and can help. Racial profiling is a subset, relates nothing to your example above, and as far as I'm concerned doesn't have any merit. Let's assume for a second that you avoided those gangbangers because of their race. Are you saying you'd avoid them if they were wearing a suit & tie and sitting in a Starbucks? Are you saying you would not avoid someone of a different race if they were dressed / acting the same? You profiled based on a person's actions/mannerisms/dress, not their race.

Religious profiling is even more ridiculous, because there's no way to identify a person's religion, and any standard (for example a combination of race and dress) would be EASILY thwarted by someone who's end game was suicide.

IMO racial/religious profiling is just a way for a group of people to take away rights from others so that they can feel a little safer. I wonder what they'd say if they were asked to give up rights so someone else can feel a little safer?

 

[woolfe9999]

The logical goal of any counter-terrorism policy (aside from killing the terrorists when possible) is to isolate the terrorists from the broader body politic of Islamic societies. Ultimately the terrorists will never go away so long as their views and methods continue to have some currency among the general Muslim populace. The goal of this kind of shift in messaging is to not frame the conflict as a war of civilizations between the west and Islam because that sort of rhetoric plays right into the hands of AQ who *also* view this as a war of civilizations and want to get the rest of the Islamic world on board with them.

- wolf

 

[Fern]

But rewriting the strategy document will be the latest example of Obama putting his stamp on US foreign policy, like his promises to dismantle nuclear weapons and limit the situations in which they can be used.

The revisions are part of a larger effort about which the White House talks openly, one that seeks to change not just how the United States talks to Muslim nations, but also what it talks to them about, from health care and science to business startups and education.

I'm getting the impression he's confusing National Security with Foreign Policy. Maybe all Presidents do though?

IMO, national security should be about precisely that. Our national security document should be for our consumption alone, not something spread around for other purposes, no matter how noble. To adapt our national security for foreign policy objectives strikes me as subjugating national security to foreign policy.

As far as foreign policy, that's his domain and his right to run it as he wishes. He'll be judged on the results.

Fern

 

[fallout man]

The logical goal of any counter-terrorism policy (aside from killing the terrorists when possible) is to isolate the terrorists from the broader body politic of Islamic societies. Ultimately the terrorists will never go away so long as their views and methods continue to have some currency among the general Muslim populace. The goal of this kind of shift in messaging is to not frame the conflict as a war of civilizations between the west and Islam because that sort of rhetoric plays right into the hands of AQ who *also* view this as a war of civilizations and want to get the rest of the Islamic world on board with them.

- wolf

THIS.

AQ and their ilk need to be wiped off the face of the Earth. That's a job with very clear-cut, achievable goal. Huff-n-puff posturing and pointing of the fingers does nothing to further this goal. These fuckers already know they're the black sheep, and that they're being hunted down.

We need the rest of the Islamic world--the good, God-fearing Muslims--to work with us toward this goal. You can't do this using language that puts good religious people in the cross-hairs.

Good move, BHO.

 

[Noobtastic]

THIS.

AQ and their ilk need to be wiped off the face of the Earth. That's a job with very clear-cut, achievable goal. Huff-n-puff posturing and pointing of the fingers does nothing to further this goal. These fuckers already know they're the black sheep, and that they're being hunted down.

We need the rest of the Islamic world--the good, God-fearing Muslims--to work with us toward this goal. You can't do this using language that puts good religious people in the cross-hairs.

Good move, BHO.

LOL FALLOUT! So I guess it's okay when BO orders the carpet-bombing of a sovereign nation to "wipe out AQ", even if they comes at the expensive of millions of civilians (2 million + made refugees since invasion), but when other nations have the audacity to after those same terrorists in a 1,000,000 less ruthless manner....*cough*Israel*cough*, it's WRONG!!1111

Our conflict in Afghanistan is disgusting. There is hardly any Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, And OBL is most likely in Pakistan by now. Taliban poses zero threat to American citizens, and right now AQ is largely subdued.

There is more AQ in Iraq than in Afghanistan.

I don't think a few dead terrorists are worth 100,000+ civilians and a destroyed nation, do you?

 

[fallout man]

LOL FALLOUT! So I guess it's okay when BO orders the carpet-bombing of a sovereign nation to "wipe out AQ", even if they comes at the expensive of millions of civilians (2 million + made refugees since invasion), but when other nations have the audacity to after those same terrorists in a 1,000,000 less ruthless manner....*cough*Israel*cough*, it's WRONG!!1111

Our conflict in Afghanistan is disgusting. There is hardly any Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, And OBL is most likely in Pakistan by now. Taliban poses zero threat to American citizens, and right now AQ is largely subdued.

There is more AQ in Iraq than in Afghanistan.

I don't think a few dead terrorists are worth 100,000+ civilians and a destroyed nation, do you?

Our conflict in Afghanistan is disgusting.

Is Israel involved in Afghanistan?

Seriously, dude, what are you talking about, and how does that relate to my post?

Are you high? Careful, man: there's a beverage here...

 

[jackschmittusa]

IHateViruses must not know the meaning of "carpet-bombing" either.

You seem to go out of your way to show that you don't even have a clue.

I hope you aren't old enough to vote.

 

[Noobtastic]

Is Israel involved in Afghanistan?

Seriously, dude, what are you talking about, and how does that relate to my post?

Are you high? Careful, man: there's a beverage here...

Don't play dumb Fallout. I'm simply pointing out the blatant hypocrisy and double standard you wield in your obscene and excessive criticism of Israel,in contrast with your gushing support for Obama's imperialist policies in Afghanistan.

Here is what you said:

AQ and their ilk need to be wiped off the face of the Earth. That's a job with very clear-cut, achievable goal. Huff-n-puff posturing and pointing of the fingers does nothing to further this goal. These fuckers already know they're the black sheep, and that they're being hunted down.

I didn't say Israel was involved in Afghanistan - though it has sold hundreds of UAVs to NATO forces and allowed special forces to train in the WB prior to the invasion - I said you attack and bash Israel for its war on terror, yet extol Obama for accelerating and beefing up the occupation of Afghanistan and support for Pakistan.

Even though Pakistan has killed over 9,000 people this year alone with OUR weapons and OUR aid, and we're killing 3,000 people a year, on top of the undisclosed number of people in classified drone attacks.

And like I said before, AQ is largely subdued in Afghanistan. There is more AQ is Afghanistan now then there was when we invaded, and most of them are not loyal to OBL but rather "AQ-inspired."

There is more AQ in Iraq.

In other words fallout, you have no moral principals. We shouldn't be bombing countries thousands of miles away, and if you had any credibility, the moral standard you apply to Israel should also apply to us.

IHateViruses must not know the meaning of "carpet-bombing" either

23 days of carpet-bombing killed 7,000 people:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Crescent_Wind

Just to soften up Afghanistan before we deployed our troops into the country.

 

[Brainonska511]

23 days of carpet-bombing killed 7,000 people:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Crescent_Wind

Just to soften up Afghanistan before we deployed our troops into the country.

"Sources said that the main fighting force of the Taliban had gone to hideouts in the mountains and under ground bunkers following the heavy bombardments by the US war planes during the last about two month.

Senior Taliban sources have also said that more than 6,000 Taliban forces have been killed all over Afghanistan since the start of the air campaign by the US planes."

http://www.afghanistannewscenter.com/news/2001/november/nov29qq2001.html (the one linked in the Wiki article)

23 days is now 2 months? And according to the source, it was Taliban forces. Do you have a problem with us bombing the hell out of Taliban forces? Maybe you'd rather US troops face them in ground combat so we'll have more casualties. Do you hate the US that much? America hater.

 

[fallout man]

Don't play dumb Fallout. I'm simply pointing out the blatant hypocrisy and double standard you wield in your obscene and excessive criticism of Israel,in contrast with your gushing support for Obama's imperialist policies in Afghanistan.

Here is what you said:


I didn't say Israel was involved in Afghanistan - though it has sold hundreds of UAVs to NATO forces and allowed special forces to train in the WB prior to the invasion - I said you attack and bash Israel for its war on terror, yet extol Obama for accelerating and beefing up the occupation of Afghanistan and support for Pakistan.

Even though Pakistan has killed over 9,000 people this year alone with OUR weapons and OUR aid, and we're killing 3,000 people a year, on top of the undisclosed number of people in classified drone attacks.

And like I said before, AQ is largely subdued in Afghanistan. There is more AQ is Afghanistan now then there was when we invaded, and most of them are not loyal to OBL but rather "AQ-inspired."

There is more AQ in Iraq.

In other words fallout, you have no moral principals. We shouldn't be bombing countries thousands of miles away, and if you had any credibility, the moral standard you apply to Israel should also apply to us.


23 days of carpet-bombing killed 7,000 people:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Crescent_Wind

Just to soften up Afghanistan before we deployed our troops into the country.

That's a nice rant.

What does this thread have to do with Israel?

 

[Noobtastic]

"Sources said that the main fighting force of the Taliban had gone to hideouts in the mountains and under ground bunkers following the heavy bombardments by the US war planes during the last about two month.

Senior Taliban sources have also said that more than 6,000 Taliban forces have been killed all over Afghanistan since the start of the air campaign by the US planes."

http://www.afghanistannewscenter.com/news/2001/november/nov29qq2001.html (the one linked in the Wiki article)

23 days is now 2 months? And according to the source, it was Taliban forces. Do you have a problem with us bombing the hell out of Taliban forces? Maybe you'd rather US troops face them in ground combat so we'll have more casualties. Do you hate the US that much? America hater.

Vast majority were killed in the 23 days of carpet bombing.

Yeah, according to the military spokesperson - it was "Taliban forces." But how can you count bodies when they've been incinerated?

USAF dropped bombs on areas considered to be Taliban controlled. Most KIAs were written off as "Taliban." Names, ages, DOB, not provided.

Same deal in Iraq. Bulldoze a neighborhood, kill a few bystanders...hey, just call them insurgents...no one will know the difference right?

Remember, Obama's appointed drone czar dubiously boasted only 4% of those killed in drone attacks were civilians, when in reality the percent was closer to 70%.

USA does not have a knee-jerk reactionary media, and virtually all journalists are embedded in the military and rarely collect testimony from people who might say shit about the militaries performance.

USA shut down Falluja before the invasion from journalists....hmm...wonder why.

I like to use Israel as a moral ruler, and measure it up against alleged-moral superiors like USA, Britain, France, etc.

You'd be surprised that we qualify as Nazis compared to the Jews and their policies towards their enemies.

That's a nice rant.

What does this thread have to do with Israel?

Are you thick?

Just accept defeat Fallout.

 

[fallout man]

Are you thick?

Just accept defeat Fallout.

What defeat? You're as big of a fucking idiot as you are an internet gladiator...

Now::: w-h-a-t___d-o-e-s___t-h-e___O-P___h-a-v-e___t-o___d-o___w-i-t-h___I-s-r-a-e-l,___a-g-a-i-n?

MOTION TO CLOSE TROLL THREAD.

OP IS NOT BEING "PURE OF HEART."

 

[jackschmittusa]

Carpet bombing is the large scale bombing of large targets.

So IHateViruses posts about special forces being used to direct the bombing. That is precision strike capability, not carpet bombing.

 

[Noobtastic]

Carpet bombing is the large scale bombing of large targets.

So IHateViruses posts about special forces being used to direct the bombing. That is precision strike capability, not carpet bombing.

Respond to my post please.

The bombing campaign implemented by NATO forces in Afghanistan between 2001-2002 has been described as carpet bombing.

On November 7th, U.S heavy bombers obliterated the village of Khan Aqa in Kapisa province, located 34 miles north of Kabul, as part of the new carpet-bombing phase of the air war in the plains north of Kabul

http://cursor.org/stories/civilian_deaths.htm

Thousands of JDAM-fitted MK84s dropped over Afghanistan.

 

[Greenman]

Awesome

Obama and Dems have learned well from you Revisionist History Republicans.

Don't like it when you're not doing it eh?

Too bad, you're free to leave. Goodbye

There's nothing left but the hate now Dave, cling to it, as it appears to be all you have.

 

[jackschmittusa]

IHateViruses

"So I guess it's okay when BO orders the carpet-bombing"

"The bombing campaign implemented by NATO forces in Afghanistan between 2001-2002 has been described as carpet bombing."

Please explain how these 2 statements fit together.

 

[Noobtastic]

IHateViruses

"So I guess it's okay when BO orders the carpet-bombing"

"The bombing campaign implemented by NATO forces in Afghanistan between 2001-2002 has been described as carpet bombing."

Please explain how these 2 statements fit together.

What?

Anyways, my overall point is what's good for USA is not good for other historic allies. Obama has no credibility and no intregity.

Then again, neither does any other official. Just like when the USA berated israel for responding to threats on its border, while we were bombing Vietnam and killing a million+ people. Or when GWB asked Israel to prematurely end Operation Defensive Shield in 2002, while we were in Iraq and had killed 27,000 during the invasion.

2010, and we are in Afghanistan, killing loads of people, sponsoring Pakistan who is killing more people - all in the name of "terror" - while historic allies must negotiate and suck up to their homicidal enemies.

If Israel was facing off against al-qaeda, we would expect it to negotiate.

 

[jackschmittusa]

IHateViruses

So you think it's OK to use BS like Obama + carpet-bombing to make your point. Yup, I get it.

 

[fallout man]

Thread delivers.