Obama rewords "students in college will participate in mandatory 100 hours community service"

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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,226
5,802
126
Originally posted by: GroundedSailor
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: GroundedSailor
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: palehorse
$40/hr is ridiculously high... cut that in half, or double the hours requirement, and it might be doable; but, only if it's entirely voluntary!

It's not too high considering how college tuition increases faster than inflation annually. Private schools are far far worse.
I see no problem in giving students $4000 for tuition; but, only if they double the number of hours required to receive it! 100 hours is not enough.

200 hours of work = $20/hr, which is still WELL above minimum wage -- 3 times as much, in fact -- for the kids who need the help with their tuition.

I simply do not support paying them six times minimum wage for 100 hours. That's just ridiculous...

Don't think of it as a job. Think of it as a extended Pell Grant for which the student has to show some responsibility towards the community. I don't think the intent is purely to provide employment to students.

I will support such a program (have 1 kid in college right now!) for prospective students.
I have no problem with the concept. I simply hope that they require a little more than 100 hours...

Currently Pell grants require only that the student breathes and is enrolled. That is free money with zero requirements.

This plan is far better as it asks for 100 hours of service from the student. As far as I'm concerned its win-win for both sides. The student gets money for education and society benefits from promoting education and some free work out of the student - who might end up learning some responsibility.

I suspect that will happen for most. It will also weed out a lot of Kids who are unwilling to be Responsible.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
Originally posted by: rudder

Nothing like the American taxpayer having to give some college students $40 an hour to goof off. I bet the $12/hour factory worker loves the fact that the student will then get to graduate and make quite a bit more than $12/hour.

...if they can find jobs. Since everyone and his brother and his brother's friends is going to college now, we're going to have an even larger glut of college graduates. Many of those people will then seek out even more education as a solution to their unemployment or underemployment problems, resulting in an even larger oversupply of unemployed or severely underemployed-and-involuntarily-out-of-field Ph.D. scientists, MBAs, and Lawyers.

Ughhh!!

I am so tired of people in this forum not being able to look at the whole picture. You guys take Obama's solutions one at a time while ignoring the rest. You have to look at them and the potential results when combined into a single massive solution.

Plus, eskimospy has already done a great job explaining how education is necessary for work to come to America. The government can only do so much but this is one thing that it can do right. The rest will need to be healed through time and the free market. That combined effort will win us a victory.

How about increasing high school standards? Oh wait... can't do that too many people would not be able to finish high school. So lets dumb down standards. Giving people a college education will not solve anything. In order for it to be fair though... we are gonna have to dumb down standards.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,226
5,802
126
Originally posted by: rudder
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
Originally posted by: rudder

Nothing like the American taxpayer having to give some college students $40 an hour to goof off. I bet the $12/hour factory worker loves the fact that the student will then get to graduate and make quite a bit more than $12/hour.

...if they can find jobs. Since everyone and his brother and his brother's friends is going to college now, we're going to have an even larger glut of college graduates. Many of those people will then seek out even more education as a solution to their unemployment or underemployment problems, resulting in an even larger oversupply of unemployed or severely underemployed-and-involuntarily-out-of-field Ph.D. scientists, MBAs, and Lawyers.

Ughhh!!

I am so tired of people in this forum not being able to look at the whole picture. You guys take Obama's solutions one at a time while ignoring the rest. You have to look at them and the potential results when combined into a single massive solution.

Plus, eskimospy has already done a great job explaining how education is necessary for work to come to America. The government can only do so much but this is one thing that it can do right. The rest will need to be healed through time and the free market. That combined effort will win us a victory.

How about increasing high school standards? Oh wait... can't do that too many people would not be able to finish high school. So lets dumb down standards. Giving people a college education will not solve anything. In order for it to be fair though... we are gonna have to dumb down standards.

You just proved his point.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: GroundedSailor
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: GroundedSailor
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: palehorse
$40/hr is ridiculously high... cut that in half, or double the hours requirement, and it might be doable; but, only if it's entirely voluntary!

It's not too high considering how college tuition increases faster than inflation annually. Private schools are far far worse.
I see no problem in giving students $4000 for tuition; but, only if they double the number of hours required to receive it! 100 hours is not enough.

200 hours of work = $20/hr, which is still WELL above minimum wage -- 3 times as much, in fact -- for the kids who need the help with their tuition.

I simply do not support paying them six times minimum wage for 100 hours. That's just ridiculous...

Don't think of it as a job. Think of it as a extended Pell Grant for which the student has to show some responsibility towards the community. I don't think the intent is purely to provide employment to students.

I will support such a program (have 1 kid in college right now!) for prospective students.
I have no problem with the concept. I simply hope that they require a little more than 100 hours...

Currently Pell grants require only that the student breathes and is enrolled. That is free money with zero requirements.

This plan is far better as it asks for 100 hours of service from the student. As far as I'm concerned its win-win for both sides. The student gets money for education and society benefits from promoting education and some free work out of the student - who might end up learning some responsibility.
OK, then I'll spell it out: I'm for eliminating Pell Grants altogether and increasing the number of hours to well over 100. :)
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
Originally posted by: rudder
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
Originally posted by: rudder

Nothing like the American taxpayer having to give some college students $40 an hour to goof off. I bet the $12/hour factory worker loves the fact that the student will then get to graduate and make quite a bit more than $12/hour.

...if they can find jobs. Since everyone and his brother and his brother's friends is going to college now, we're going to have an even larger glut of college graduates. Many of those people will then seek out even more education as a solution to their unemployment or underemployment problems, resulting in an even larger oversupply of unemployed or severely underemployed-and-involuntarily-out-of-field Ph.D. scientists, MBAs, and Lawyers.

Ughhh!!

I am so tired of people in this forum not being able to look at the whole picture. You guys take Obama's solutions one at a time while ignoring the rest. You have to look at them and the potential results when combined into a single massive solution.

Plus, eskimospy has already done a great job explaining how education is necessary for work to come to America. The government can only do so much but this is one thing that it can do right. The rest will need to be healed through time and the free market. That combined effort will win us a victory.

How about increasing high school standards? Oh wait... can't do that too many people would not be able to finish high school. So lets dumb down standards. Giving people a college education will not solve anything. In order for it to be fair though... we are gonna have to dumb down standards.

They are dumbing down standards in most states or are you blowing smoke? Proof please.

Last I checked these kids are being given more homework than ever. Things like the standardized tests in many states that are required to get the diploma are getting harder. SAT/ACT required scores to get scholarships and entry to college is increasing in many states too. I am sure there are exceptions, but I doubt that they encompass most of the US.

Besides, what does the problem of standards in high school have to do with funding higher level education? Sounds to me like this is a separate problem if it exists at all. If it does exist then that is a problem on a state by state basis and not the whole country.
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
Originally posted by: palehorse
OK, then I'll spell it out: I'm for eliminating Pell Grants altogether and increasing the number of hours to well over 100. :)

Single mothers working full time, trying to finish college on grants, and with no one to watch their kids while they do community service would love to have a word with you about that.

You hate social service handouts right? How can you support eliminating opportunities like grants when you got people out there who are trying to so hard to either get off or stay off those services by trying to get a college education? You are shooting your belief structure in the foot.

The point is that there are lots of different people out there in many different situations. Therefore, we need lots of different opportunities available. Obama is simply offering one additional solution which could potentially reduce the need for things like Pell grants if it works, but it will not reduce it so much that we should get rid of them altogether. Of course, he also needs this country to embrace the solution or else people like you will never be able to enjoy the fruits of that kind of labor. Stop rejecting this idea and start supporting it. If it fails then bash it and start discussing amendments, but at least give it a chance.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: palehorse
OK, then I'll spell it out: I'm for eliminating Pell Grants altogether and increasing the number of hours to well over 100. :)

Single mothers working full time, trying to finish college on grants, and with no one to watch their kids while they do community service would love to have a word with you about that.

You hate social service handouts right? How can you support eliminating opportunities like grants when you got people out there who are trying to so hard to either get off or stay off those services by trying to get a college education? You are shooting your belief structure in the foot.

The point is that there are lots of different people out there in many different situations. Therefore, we need lots of different opportunities available. Obama is simply offering one additional solution which could potentially reduce the need for things like Pell grants if it works, but it will not reduce it so much that we should get rid of them altogether. Of course, he also needs this country to embrace the solution or else people like you will never be able to enjoy the fruits of that kind of labor. Stop rejecting this idea and start supporting it. If it fails then bash it and start discussing amendments, but at least give it a chance.
They make these neat vests now that allow you to carry infants on your chest and back while you work... I even have one! ;)
 

eleison

Golden Member
Mar 29, 2006
1,319
0
0
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: eleison
Originally posted by: Xavier434
That's because you are only focused on manufacturing. How do you explain all of the massive and complicated software projects that get shipped over there?
I don't understand the question. Explain what? Some companies think that outsourcing development saves money. Some don't. Where I live, Chicago, IMHO, US programmers are doing fine. There are benefits to having local developers.

Explain to me why so many software jobs are either going over seas or students from India/China are being brought here to do those jobs? The answer is that it is a combination of tax incentives, wages, and education. I say we get rid of those tax incentives, increase our education, and allow the free market in the world econ take care of the wage issue which it is already doing I might add....just far too slowly to help take care of our current crisis.

I'm a software developer. I know several software developers. We are doing fine. Regardless of education, there are certain benefits to having local employees that cannot be replicated by outsourcing.


I've been on the bad end of outsourcing before. I was outsourced a couple years ago, so w/regards to software outsourcing, I feel qualified to talk about it.

Obviously, in the IT field there are certain jobs that can be outsourced.. those, IMHO, have already been. The developers that are left have mostly found a niche that makes than more valuable than someone in India.

Originally posted by: eleison
Originally posted by: Xavier434
When it comes to manufacturing, look at a previous post I made. Fund vocational schools for the kids where college is not for them so they obtain a skill that is useful for jobs like manufacturing. That is a hell of a lot better than them just getting a HS degree and that's it if they get a degree at all. Next, give the private businesses tax incentives to hire these students instead of shipping the business overseas. Finally...give it time.

Having the government trying to save jobs that could easy be done else where doesn't promote job creation... only job stagnation. The US needs to get rid of jobs that can be done else where (e.g., stamping metal, manufacturing). Instead, the US needs to promote business in general. As business grow, the ingenuity of the US business people will ultimate help create jobs that cannot be outsourced.

Yes, by providing this country with both an influence on job creation and education separately and simultaneously. You need both or we will fail in this world economy. Again, your problem is not about education as I have been trying to point out to you. Your problem is that you lack confidence in Obama's ability to influence the other half which is to create jobs. That's all there is to it. The arguments have already been presented as to why both he and his supporters believe that his ideas will work which I will not go through the monstrosity of a task that it is to repeat those arguments to you again. At this point, you either have confidence that his way will work or you don't while keeping in mind that there are many ways to skin the cat.

With that, let me ask you a question. If you had full confidence that Obama's plans to bring back jobs to America will work then would you have an issue with his plans for education? If so then why?

Bring back jobs that moved to China, and SE Asian? Jobs like putting buttons on dolls, or assembling wheels on car toys? No thank you. Those jobs can stay over there where labor is cheap. Here, where labor is expensive, those products would never be competitive in the global economy. Governments trying to bring those jobs back or keep these type of jobs here artificially (via incentives) will only hurt the economy.

If companies are encouraged to flourish, more "good" jobs will be create here. For instance, instead of putting wheels on cars, Americans can be trained to be RN's, Americans can be computer technicians, or retail sales (not prestigious, but better than putting buttons on dolls for a living).

The bottom line is, we could get everyone a degree, but w/o business there would be no jobs. As more and more Americans get laid off, its not because Americans "need more education".. its because the economy is getting hurt and the business are getting hurt. We need to help business any way we can. Penalizing then by dictating what jobs they have to create or taxing them is not the way to go regardless of "education"...
 

GroundedSailor

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2001
2,502
0
76
Originally posted by: palehorse

OK, then I'll spell it out: I'm for eliminating Pell Grants altogether and increasing the number of hours to well over 100. :)

Pell grants are the civilian version of the GI bill which has helped a large number of people complete college. A well educated populace is the best bet for any society to get ahead.

If you're against any form of educational assistance to college students you are doing the country a disservice and are in a minority of the population.

I heartily support Pell grants even though my son is ineligible for them and I pay the full amount.


 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
Originally posted by: GroundedSailor
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: GroundedSailor
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: palehorse
$40/hr is ridiculously high... cut that in half, or double the hours requirement, and it might be doable; but, only if it's entirely voluntary!

It's not too high considering how college tuition increases faster than inflation annually. Private schools are far far worse.
I see no problem in giving students $4000 for tuition; but, only if they double the number of hours required to receive it! 100 hours is not enough.

200 hours of work = $20/hr, which is still WELL above minimum wage -- 3 times as much, in fact -- for the kids who need the help with their tuition.

I simply do not support paying them six times minimum wage for 100 hours. That's just ridiculous...

Don't think of it as a job. Think of it as a extended Pell Grant for which the student has to show some responsibility towards the community. I don't think the intent is purely to provide employment to students.

I will support such a program (have 1 kid in college right now!) for prospective students.
I have no problem with the concept. I simply hope that they require a little more than 100 hours...

Currently Pell grants require only that the student breathes and is enrolled. That is free money with zero requirements.

This plan is far better as it asks for 100 hours of service from the student. As far as I'm concerned its win-win for both sides. The student gets money for education and society benefits from promoting education and some free work out of the student - who might end up learning some responsibility.

Actually Pell Grants require the student to be poor. This doesnt get rid of pell grants either, it further supplements grants, loans and workstudy.

I bet y'all are pissed off about the new loan forgiveness for public service too.
 

GroundedSailor

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2001
2,502
0
76
Originally posted by: Wreckem

Actually Pell Grants require the student to be poor. This doesnt get rid of pell grants either, it further supplements grants, loans and workstudy.

I bet y'all are pissed off about the new loan forgiveness for public service too.
Oh I know there are financial requirements for Pell grants, I was responding to the point of the program paying an apparent high wage.


 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: Wreckem
I bet y'all are pissed off about the new loan forgiveness for public service too.
got a link?

The Bill was passed in the summer of 2007. It took effect this year(but really next).

If you consolidate all your federal student loans into an IBR(25 year repayment) direct student loan and work in public service for 10 years, the governemt will forgive the remaining balance.

Heres a break down. Say you rack up $25k in undergrad, and $125k in Law school.

After law school you work in the BROADLY definded "public service" sector. Say you make $55k. You'll be paying approx $500 a month for 10 years and the rest gets forgiven. You just owe taxes on the forgiven.

Text

My current plan is to go to law school and then go into either the JAG Corps, Fed Govt, or State govt. This program will likely save me $75-100k
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,800
45
91
Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555
I'm not for this. Double the hours and maybe it won't be so bad.

I really don't care for the poor. They can fix their freaking problems on their own if they tried hard. Take out a big loan with that smart credit you have been building up and then go to college and learn. Come out with a starting wage of 50K and you're set for life. How hard is that? Get FAFSA approved and get scholarships... There is no reason why anyone cannot get a great education and be successful and well off. The only reason I can think of why you couldn't is because of some kind of physical/mental disability and you already get money for that probably.

That's a pretty idiotic statement.

He's just echoing the beliefs of most Republicans. They hate poor people and will take every opportunity to take jabs at them. Sure, some are unemployed because they're lazy and make bad decisions. Others are working really hard at a dead-end job but still can't make ends meet. Despite that, many of them want to abolish (or at least quit increasing) the minimum wage, so they can never get paid more than they are currently making even as everything else starts costing more. And forget about paying for health care or college if you're in a situation like that.

No, poor people are clearly scum and must be punished for being so lazy and uninsured.

Their fault for working a dead-end job, lol. Stupid people do stupid jobs.

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: rudder
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
Originally posted by: rudder

Nothing like the American taxpayer having to give some college students $40 an hour to goof off. I bet the $12/hour factory worker loves the fact that the student will then get to graduate and make quite a bit more than $12/hour.

...if they can find jobs. Since everyone and his brother and his brother's friends is going to college now, we're going to have an even larger glut of college graduates. Many of those people will then seek out even more education as a solution to their unemployment or underemployment problems, resulting in an even larger oversupply of unemployed or severely underemployed-and-involuntarily-out-of-field Ph.D. scientists, MBAs, and Lawyers.

Ughhh!!

I am so tired of people in this forum not being able to look at the whole picture. You guys take Obama's solutions one at a time while ignoring the rest. You have to look at them and the potential results when combined into a single massive solution.

Plus, eskimospy has already done a great job explaining how education is necessary for work to come to America. The government can only do so much but this is one thing that it can do right. The rest will need to be healed through time and the free market. That combined effort will win us a victory.

How about increasing high school standards? Oh wait... can't do that too many people would not be able to finish high school. So lets dumb down standards. Giving people a college education will not solve anything. In order for it to be fair though... we are gonna have to dumb down standards.

They are dumbing down standards in most states or are you blowing smoke? Proof please.

Last I checked these kids are being given more homework than ever. Things like the standardized tests in many states that are required to get the diploma are getting harder. SAT/ACT required scores to get scholarships and entry to college is increasing in many states too. I am sure there are exceptions, but I doubt that they encompass most of the US.

Besides, what does the problem of standards in high school have to do with funding higher level education? Sounds to me like this is a separate problem if it exists at all. If it does exist then that is a problem on a state by state basis and not the whole country.

LOL! WHAT STATE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Kids know that high school is a joke. Standardized tests like the SAT ARE A JOKE! THEY ARE INSANELY EASY. The math portion doesn't contain any calculus, it's like... Algebra 2 level at highest. The English and Reading portions are easily done by anyone who was taught English fairly well. It's not that hard to achieve a good score on the SAT. I haven't taken the ACT, but it is easier I know that.(Don't get marked down for getting the answer wrong)

High schools need to filter out the stupid shits and not give them a diploma for being babysat for 12 years.
 
Dec 10, 2005
25,023
8,298
136
Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555
Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555
I'm not for this. Double the hours and maybe it won't be so bad.

I really don't care for the poor. They can fix their freaking problems on their own if they tried hard. Take out a big loan with that smart credit you have been building up and then go to college and learn. Come out with a starting wage of 50K and you're set for life. How hard is that? Get FAFSA approved and get scholarships... There is no reason why anyone cannot get a great education and be successful and well off. The only reason I can think of why you couldn't is because of some kind of physical/mental disability and you already get money for that probably.

That's a pretty idiotic statement.

He's just echoing the beliefs of most Republicans. They hate poor people and will take every opportunity to take jabs at them. Sure, some are unemployed because they're lazy and make bad decisions. Others are working really hard at a dead-end job but still can't make ends meet. Despite that, many of them want to abolish (or at least quit increasing) the minimum wage, so they can never get paid more than they are currently making even as everything else starts costing more. And forget about paying for health care or college if you're in a situation like that.

No, poor people are clearly scum and must be punished for being so lazy and uninsured.

Their fault for working a dead-end job, lol. Stupid people do stupid jobs.

Idiot. It's not their fault they grew up in poverty with few opportunities for advancement. Poverty is a vicious circle that just feeds itself. A few manage to escape it, but many get stuck in the circle. And who are you to call them stupid? Maybe they just couldn't get an education. At least some try to make ends meet by doing honest work.
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,800
45
91
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555
Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555
I'm not for this. Double the hours and maybe it won't be so bad.

I really don't care for the poor. They can fix their freaking problems on their own if they tried hard. Take out a big loan with that smart credit you have been building up and then go to college and learn. Come out with a starting wage of 50K and you're set for life. How hard is that? Get FAFSA approved and get scholarships... There is no reason why anyone cannot get a great education and be successful and well off. The only reason I can think of why you couldn't is because of some kind of physical/mental disability and you already get money for that probably.

That's a pretty idiotic statement.

He's just echoing the beliefs of most Republicans. They hate poor people and will take every opportunity to take jabs at them. Sure, some are unemployed because they're lazy and make bad decisions. Others are working really hard at a dead-end job but still can't make ends meet. Despite that, many of them want to abolish (or at least quit increasing) the minimum wage, so they can never get paid more than they are currently making even as everything else starts costing more. And forget about paying for health care or college if you're in a situation like that.

No, poor people are clearly scum and must be punished for being so lazy and uninsured.

Their fault for working a dead-end job, lol. Stupid people do stupid jobs.

Idiot. It's not their fault they grew up in poverty with few opportunities for advancement. Poverty is a vicious circle that just feeds itself. A few manage to escape it, but many get stuck in the circle. And who are you to call them stupid? Maybe they just couldn't get an education. At least some try to make ends meet by doing honest work.

You really are stupid. It's not hard to get a good education if you try. Work hard in school and you'll get scholarships. I know for fact that you can have a job and maintain a 4.0 GPA in high school. Save money for a car and get FAFSA approved. (If you're poor, you should easily be)

I know high school students can go to some local community colleges, 100% FREE, and get a good education. The CC I attend does this. There are so many high school students, some fifteen, who don't have to pay and can go to the school while going to high school. Some of them have jobs and still maintain a 4.0 GPA. It's not impossible, at all.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
The thinking of "conservatives" here is truly scary. They want to put a price on everything. Thank G-d there are still sane people around who feel otherwise. I don't want my country looking like China.
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,800
45
91
Originally posted by: Dari
The thinking of "conservatives" here is truly scary. They want to put a price on everything. Thank G-d there are still sane people around who feel otherwise. I don't want my country looking like China.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. >_>

If you're speaking about me as well then, I am not a conservative...
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555
Originally posted by: Dari
The thinking of "conservatives" here is truly scary. They want to put a price on everything. Thank G-d there are still sane people around who feel otherwise. I don't want my country looking like China.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. >_>

Who said there was? Some people here want to use the same basis for every transaction. The political-economy simply doesn't work that way.
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,800
45
91
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555
Originally posted by: Dari
The thinking of "conservatives" here is truly scary. They want to put a price on everything. Thank G-d there are still sane people around who feel otherwise. I don't want my country looking like China.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. >_>

Who said there was? Some people here want to use the same basis for every transaction. The political-economy simply doesn't work that way.

You said it yourself... "They want to put a price on everything." You are saying that somethings should be free.
 

AstroManLuca

Lifer
Jun 24, 2004
15,628
5
81
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555
Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555
I'm not for this. Double the hours and maybe it won't be so bad.

I really don't care for the poor. They can fix their freaking problems on their own if they tried hard. Take out a big loan with that smart credit you have been building up and then go to college and learn. Come out with a starting wage of 50K and you're set for life. How hard is that? Get FAFSA approved and get scholarships... There is no reason why anyone cannot get a great education and be successful and well off. The only reason I can think of why you couldn't is because of some kind of physical/mental disability and you already get money for that probably.

That's a pretty idiotic statement.

He's just echoing the beliefs of most Republicans. They hate poor people and will take every opportunity to take jabs at them. Sure, some are unemployed because they're lazy and make bad decisions. Others are working really hard at a dead-end job but still can't make ends meet. Despite that, many of them want to abolish (or at least quit increasing) the minimum wage, so they can never get paid more than they are currently making even as everything else starts costing more. And forget about paying for health care or college if you're in a situation like that.

No, poor people are clearly scum and must be punished for being so lazy and uninsured.

Their fault for working a dead-end job, lol. Stupid people do stupid jobs.

Idiot. It's not their fault they grew up in poverty with few opportunities for advancement. Poverty is a vicious circle that just feeds itself. A few manage to escape it, but many get stuck in the circle. And who are you to call them stupid? Maybe they just couldn't get an education. At least some try to make ends meet by doing honest work.

Indeed. TridenTBoy, how long do you think you could handle working shitty minimum wage jobs full time? I'm not talking about the whole 20-hours-per-week, bitch-about-how-much-your-life-sucks thing you're doing now. I'm talking about HAVING to work a shitty job ALL THE TIME because otherwise you don't eat. I'm talking about coming home from work every day exhausted and smelling like grease, only to have to get up the next day and do it all over again.
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,800
45
91
Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555
Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555
I'm not for this. Double the hours and maybe it won't be so bad.

I really don't care for the poor. They can fix their freaking problems on their own if they tried hard. Take out a big loan with that smart credit you have been building up and then go to college and learn. Come out with a starting wage of 50K and you're set for life. How hard is that? Get FAFSA approved and get scholarships... There is no reason why anyone cannot get a great education and be successful and well off. The only reason I can think of why you couldn't is because of some kind of physical/mental disability and you already get money for that probably.

That's a pretty idiotic statement.

He's just echoing the beliefs of most Republicans. They hate poor people and will take every opportunity to take jabs at them. Sure, some are unemployed because they're lazy and make bad decisions. Others are working really hard at a dead-end job but still can't make ends meet. Despite that, many of them want to abolish (or at least quit increasing) the minimum wage, so they can never get paid more than they are currently making even as everything else starts costing more. And forget about paying for health care or college if you're in a situation like that.

No, poor people are clearly scum and must be punished for being so lazy and uninsured.

Their fault for working a dead-end job, lol. Stupid people do stupid jobs.

Idiot. It's not their fault they grew up in poverty with few opportunities for advancement. Poverty is a vicious circle that just feeds itself. A few manage to escape it, but many get stuck in the circle. And who are you to call them stupid? Maybe they just couldn't get an education. At least some try to make ends meet by doing honest work.

Indeed. TridenTBoy, how long do you think you could handle working shitty minimum wage jobs full time? I'm not talking about the whole 20-hours-per-week, bitch-about-how-much-your-life-sucks thing you're doing now. I'm talking about HAVING to work a shitty job ALL THE TIME because otherwise you don't eat. I'm talking about coming home from work every day exhausted and smelling like grease, only to have to get up the next day and do it all over again.

Find a different job or save your money. o_O Maybe move in with a few people? Carpool... Ride your bike to work. There are tons of ways to save money and then earn more.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555
Originally posted by: Dari
The thinking of "conservatives" here is truly scary. They want to put a price on everything. Thank G-d there are still sane people around who feel otherwise. I don't want my country looking like China.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. >_>

Who said there was? Some people here want to use the same basis for every transaction. The political-economy simply doesn't work that way.

You said it yourself... "They want to put a price on everything." You are saying that somethings should be free.

Some transactions are invaulable. Some transactions are ceremonial. It does not mean you need to put a nominal price-tag on them. It also does not mean they are free.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: JS80
Congrats on Obama artificially increasing the demand for college thus increasing the price. And it's great to see that they are paying college students who will be more than able to pay back their college tuition once they enter the workforce, at the cost the of taxpayers. Yay for change.

You could have said the exact same thing about the GI Bill when it was enacted. Of course you would have been just as hilariously wrong then as you are now, but you could still have said it.

Exactly. You could also say the same thing about government grants and statewide scholarships to those who reach a certain level of GPA and SAT/ACT scores. Hell! You could even say the same thing about student loans!!

The logic there is all the same.

Interesting.

You cannot say the same thing about loans because there is still risk and a market cost for getting that loan.

Pell grants did artificially increase demand, however. A better way would have been to set up a method whereby private companies can take bids for loans for students, based on GPA and SAT/ACT scores.

Could you post more about how public schools are cost regulated? I do not believe they are. Georgia Tech sets the tuition, state of Georgia pays some of it if you're a Georgia resident, and then students either come or don't. Pell grants lower the cost of school in a way the student does not see (but the taxpayer does), so prices rise to compensate to whatever level the student was willing to pay for tuition, grant or no grant. If I'm willing to pay $15k/semester, and then I get a Pell Grant for $3k, I'm still willing to pay $15k. The end result is the schools simply raise tuition to $18k