Obama reaffirms the strength of our relationship with Israel

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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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Says the rabid hyper-partisan who's intransigence exemplifies why there can't be peace.

As a somebody who is pro-Palestinian as you are,
I would hardly call my own position oir the Israeli position intransigent!!

As a nation israel has given back land in exchange for a promise of peace?

Only the Egyptians have kept their word!!

The problem here is a very simple one -- both sides appear to be intrasigent in this matter,

An act of goodwill would be for the Palestinians to stand up to Hamas and oust them. What exactly has Hamas done towards the peace effort?? nothing...

In fact if the Palestinians did oust Hamas I woulds say the odds of having a peace would double immediately!!

Shalom!!
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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You have no idea how an alliance works, do you??
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As if JEDIYoda has a single clue how alliances in the plural work.

Its all well and fine for JEDIYoda to rely on the "special relations alliance irrevocable bonds", alliance in the singular the USA has with Israel. But how much is that worth when the USA only has 5% of the world's population, at least an equal or greater part of the world's population hates Israeli guts with a passionate conviction because of an Israeli policy of building up hatreds, and the entirerest of the world has NO "special relationship" alliance with Israel at all?

By in large the rest of the world needs, desires, and requires a stable Mid-East that keeps the oil flowing, and when Israel becomes the greatest threat to mid-East peace, it becomes somewhat of a no brainer for the larger world, present Israeli policy makes Israel a liability and anything but an asset.

As for the USA, they need European, Chinese, Russian, and other world wide allies, far more than they need Israel.

In the larger sweep of world history, alliances between nations come and go. Here today and gone tomorrow.

But IMHO, Israel has become a huge US net liability. The question is and remains, will Israel stay stuck on stupid, and thus remain a net liability, or will Israel finally change policy, become a mid-east peace partner, and thus become a world net asset?

Israeli technology can become a net mid-east asset, so Israel does have something positive to bring to the table.
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
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As if JEDIYoda has a single clue how alliances in the plural work.

Its all well and fine for JEDIYoda to rely on the "special relations alliance irrevocable bonds", alliance in the singular the USA has with Israel. But how much is that worth when the USA only has 5% of the world's population, at least an equal or greater part of the world's population hates Israeli guts with a passionate conviction because of an Israeli policy of building up hatreds, and the entirerest of the world has NO "special relationship" alliance with Israel at all?

No actually, the hatred of Israel comes from countries with no freedom of speech forcing their schools to teach anti-israeli things. To top it off, the Koran tells islamic people to kill jews.

By in large the rest of the world needs, desires, and requires a stable Mid-East that keeps the oil flowing, and when Israel becomes the greatest threat to mid-East peace, it becomes somewhat of a no brainer for the larger world, present Israeli policy makes Israel a liability and anything but an asset.

Israel isnt threatening to kill it's neighboring countries. Israel is the only country in the middle east that needs a strong military to keep itself alive.

As for the USA, they need European, Chinese, Russian, and other world wide allies, far more than they need Israel.


In the larger sweep of world history, alliances between nations come and go. Here today and gone tomorrow.

not with Israel's long track of helping israel as well as lobbying groups like AIPAC are here.

But IMHO, Israel has become a huge US net liability. The question is and remains, will Israel stay stuck on stupid, and thus remain a net liability, or will Israel finally change policy, become a mid-east peace partner, and thus become a world net asset?

Iran is more of a liability to the US than Israel. Israel actually helps advance this world, while Iran wants us back in the stone ages.

Israeli technology can become a net mid-east asset, so Israel does have something positive to bring to the table.

like I said before. Israel brings things to the table others in the middle east wont. As long as israel is threatened by its neighbors, it will constantly develop new technologies to defend itself.


Israel is an asset of the United States. Not only for what it has done for the US in the past and present but for what will come in the future.
 
Sep 29, 2004
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I'll put this simply. Florida is a swing state. It has a large jewish population. There is a reason that Isreal is supported. The party that stops supporting isreal is the party that looses the US.

Seriously, it is this simple.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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I'll put this simply. Florida is a swing state. It has a large jewish population. There is a reason that Isreal is supported. The party that stops supporting isreal is the party that looses the US.

Seriously, it is this simple.
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First of all, Jews make up less than 2 % of the US voting population, and many internal to the US Jewish groups are the ones picketing Israeli leaders for their too Zionist policies.

But still, no one can can deny that the USA has a very pro-Israeli press and very powerful Jewish political lobbies.

Its also worth pointing the American people were in basically the same place on 12/5/1941 with a well funded pro German press and pro-German political lobbies headed up by luminaries like Prescott Bush, Charles Linburg, and Father Conglin. Three days later, all German support within the USA had evaporated faster than the morning dew.

In short, pro-Israel support in the USA has been falling and may fall to zero at the rate
Israel is going. Sadly there is a big gap between enduring American ideals and current Israeli governmental policies.
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
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First of all, Jews make up less than 2 % of the US voting population, and many internal to the US Jewish groups are the ones picketing Israeli leaders for their too Zionist policies.

But still, no one can can deny that the USA has a very pro-Israeli press and very powerful Jewish political lobbies.

Its also worth pointing the American people were in basically the same place on 12/5/1941 with a well funded pro German press and pro-German political lobbies headed up by luminaries like Prescott Bush, Charles Linburg, and Father Conglin. Three days later, all German support within the USA had evaporated faster than the morning dew.

In short, pro-Israel support in the USA has been falling and may fall to zero at the rate
Israel is going. Sadly there is a big gap between enduring American ideals and current Israeli governmental policies.


You are comparing Israel to Nazis. great. Godwin law strikes again.



You are senile to think israel is anything like nazi germany, and if you do you need to go to a kookoo house
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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You are comparing Israel to Nazis. great. Godwin law strikes again.



You are senile to think israel is anything like nazi germany, and if you do you need to go to a kookoo house
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FreshGearDude, you must be under the delusion that I believe Godwins law has any validity. But if it makes you any happier, I could cite many example of American or other nations opinions for an external entity vanishing very fast. Look how fast the Shah of Iran fell, the Russian Tsar went with just five words, "Comrade, we have been betrayed", the unthinkable happened in France in a small bread riot near the Bastille, look how fast all Nixon support vanished with the final set of tapes, and the list is almost endless. And look how big of a hit Israeli public opinion took after they boarded a ship on the high seas on 5/31/2010. At the end of the day, the expression the straw that broke the camels back applies.
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
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yes, all of those are different from israel.


its not clear cut.


also, all of those things didnt happen in a single day or week, planning or disaster went along with it.


As long as terrorists attack israel, the same that attack americans in iraq and afganistan, support for israel will never vanish.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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FreshGeadDude, what a pack of lies and delusions you came up with in one single post.

The same set of terrorists attacking the USA are definitely not the same set of terrorist attacking the Israel . If anything, Al-Quida sides with Israel, to reduce Iranian influence. Nor has the doctrine of the enemy of my enemy is my friend worked out very well for the USA. Its been more short term penny wise and long term dollar stupid.

But the only thing you say that is semi true is, "also, all of those things didnt happen in a single day or week", but as Israel keeps heaping more and more straws on the camel's back, they will find that tipping point where US patience with Israeli pig it all politics will finally snap. The common denominator in all the examples I cited, the road to ruin may last years and span a long history, but when all patience with a worthless greedy pig is finally lost, the final end takes but a few moments.

To define it sufficiently, after 37 years of holding on to all illegal gains of the
1967&73 wars, the entire world has had enough of Israeli intransigence and excuses, and now the world demands Israel be a real peace partner, or else.

If the USA wants to strike a blow against international terrorism, we cannot do so by giving Israel an unlimited blank check.

Its one or the other but not both. Happily IMHO, it need not mean selling Israel down the river, because a just mid-east peace will benefit Israel, the Arab States, and the rest of the world.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
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In short, pro-Israel support in the USA has been falling and may fall to zero at the rate
Israel is going. Sadly there is a big gap between enduring American ideals and current Israeli governmental policies.

Forget Godwin's law. I want to know if you can support this statement or if you are just pulling it out of your ass like usual. I suggest you look over the Gallup tracking survery over the years, measuring American attitudes toward Israel, and note which direction they have gone.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/gallup.html

The invidiual polls can be found on Gallup's website, in case you don't want to trust that source.

- wolf
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,510
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FreshGeadDude, what a pack of lies and delusions you came up with in one single post.

The same set of terrorists attacking the USA are definitely not the same set of terrorist attacking the Israel . If anything, Al-Quida sides with Israel, to reduce Iranian influence. Nor has the doctrine of the enemy of my enemy is my friend worked out very well for the USA. Its been more short term penny wise and long term dollar stupid.

But the only thing you say that is semi true is, "also, all of those things didnt happen in a single day or week", but as Israel keeps heaping more and more straws on the camel's back, they will find that tipping point where US patience with Israeli pig it all politics will finally snap. The common denominator in all the examples I cited, the road to ruin may last years and span a long history, but when all patience with a worthless greedy pig is finally lost, the final end takes but a few moments.

To define it sufficiently, after 37 years of holding on to all illegal gains of the
1967&73 wars, the entire world has had enough of Israeli intransigence and excuses, and now the world demands Israel be a real peace partner, or else.

If the USA wants to strike a blow against international terrorism, we cannot do so by giving Israel an unlimited blank check.

Its one or the other but not both. Happily IMHO, it need not mean selling Israel down the river, because a just mid-east peace will benefit Israel, the Arab States, and the rest of the world.


WOW!

You honestly think al-qaeda sides with israel? are you kidding me?

http://www.google.com/search?q=al+q...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

take your pick.



Secondly

The land Israel got in 67 and in 73 are not illegal. UN resolution 242 states that the countries should live with safe and secure borders. After the treaties with Egypt and giving back Sinai and in 94 with Jordan at the Jordan river, the land was officially Israels.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,981
3,318
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Forget Godwin's law. I want to know if you can support this statement or if you are just pulling it out of your ass like usual. I suggest you look over the Gallup tracking survery over the years, measuring American attitudes toward Israel, and note which direction they have gone.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/gallup.html

The invidiual polls can be found on Gallup's website, in case you don't want to trust that source.

- wolf

You will have to forgive lemon law talking out of his ass.

When he gets backed into a corner his ass does all the talking!!
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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You will have to forgive lemon law talking out of his ass.

When he gets backed into a corner his ass does all the talking!!
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I don't think you have any damn right to be more apologist, accuse me of talking out of my ass, nor am I in any way impressed with your gallup poll.

But according to that poll, over time, Israeli support has risen to a high of 61% under Obama, up slightly from the 59% of GWB. How much of that Israeli approval rise is due to right wing Christian support of Israel because Israel is a vital to be consumed part of the rapture? And because the USA has such a pro Israeli press, and no pro Palestinian press, how much of that 60% is due to apathy and ignorance, and how deep is that support. That latter question somewhat asks, how easy will it be to convert the majority who now support Israel into no votes. You Jedi, may be a hard core Israeli supporter, but I very much doubt the rest of the American people are that hard core. It takes a better survey to tease out those types of answers.

Or we could look at the long term trend lines, during the time of LBJ, the Israeli's polled 40%, now 40 plus years later it is up 50%. At the same time, pro Arab state numbers are still in the sewer, but when the LBJ number was 3.5% and now its risen to 16+%, we are talking a 400% increase among probably better informed people. Its the more surprising number, given all of the anti Islamic propaganda after 911.
 

ModestGamer

Banned
Jun 30, 2010
1,140
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I really like you. It's as if someone who knew how to say, what I wanted to say, actually siad it. Sometime we should drink beer together.

Isreal is a huge liability to the Us. Our support of Isreal actually fueled the Iranian based insurgency in Iraq " a strategic descision going nowhere".

you can do better then arguing with morons.

you should get a job writing a column. Hell even maybe a Podcast or something.

you have excelent communcation skills and don't smell of baffled moron.

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I don't think you have any damn right to be more apologist, accuse me of talking out of my ass, nor am I in any way impressed with your gallup poll.

But according to that poll, over time, Israeli support has risen to a high of 61% under Obama, up slightly from the 59% of GWB. How much of that Israeli approval rise is due to right wing Christian support of Israel because Israel is a vital to be consumed part of the rapture? And because the USA has such a pro Israeli press, and no pro Palestinian press, how much of that 60% is due to apathy and ignorance, and how deep is that support. That latter question somewhat asks, how easy will it be to convert the majority who now support Israel into no votes. You Jedi, may be a hard core Israeli supporter, but I very much doubt the rest of the American people are that hard core. It takes a better survey to tease out those types of answers.

Or we could look at the long term trend lines, during the time of LBJ, the Israeli's polled 40%, now 40 plus years later it is up 50%. At the same time, pro Arab state numbers are still in the sewer, but when the LBJ number was 3.5% and now its risen to 16+%, we are talking a 400% increase among probably better informed people. Its the more surprising number, given all of the anti Islamic propaganda after 911.
 

ModestGamer

Banned
Jun 30, 2010
1,140
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the only person or people talking out of their ass's are those who listen to our regular news outlets and have not a fucking clue as to what cuases our issues with international affiars.

You ARE THE PROBLEM

You will have to forgive lemon law talking out of his ass.

When he gets backed into a corner his ass does all the talking!!
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,510
0
76
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I don't think you have any damn right to be more apologist, accuse me of talking out of my ass, nor am I in any way impressed with your gallup poll.

But according to that poll, over time, Israeli support has risen to a high of 61% under Obama, up slightly from the 59% of GWB. How much of that Israeli approval rise is due to right wing Christian support of Israel because Israel is a vital to be consumed part of the rapture? And because the USA has such a pro Israeli press, and no pro Palestinian press, how much of that 60% is due to apathy and ignorance, and how deep is that support. That latter question somewhat asks, how easy will it be to convert the majority who now support Israel into no votes. You Jedi, may be a hard core Israeli supporter, but I very much doubt the rest of the American people are that hard core. It takes a better survey to tease out those types of answers.

Or we could look at the long term trend lines, during the time of LBJ, the Israeli's polled 40%, now 40 plus years later it is up 50%. At the same time, pro Arab state numbers are still in the sewer, but when the LBJ number was 3.5% and now its risen to 16+%, we are talking a 400% increase among probably better informed people. Its the more surprising number, given all of the anti Islamic propaganda after 911.


LOL

Every main stream news station is anti- israel. The only one that supports israel is fox.

Sure they say things that are pro-israel, but thats only because they cant distort truths to ridiculous amounts.



Sure, most people arent as much supporters of Israel as say me or JediYoda, but most people realize israel is an asset of the US.



Anti- islamic propaganda is not singly fueled by 911. Many americans are watching europe implode with muslims overtaking the countries. Many americans see how barbaric the sharia lawed countries are. Many see that islam is a shitty religion full of nut cases blowing themselves up because they are promised 72 virgins. Many see the problems in iraq and afganistan.

911 isnt the only reason americans hate islamic people, rather it is yet another reason people hate the ever encroaching cockroaches.



There is a reason that a country of 7.6 million has a 63% support of americans but arabs that include 358 million only has around 15%

If you want an answer to that... take a look at the difference

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism

in comparison to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_religious_terrorism



who seems crazier? who is actually crazier?

I would be 99 percent of people would answer islam for both questions
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,510
0
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the only person or people talking out of their ass's are those who listen to our regular news outlets and have not a fucking clue as to what cuases our issues with international affiars.

You ARE THE PROBLEM


You see, we have facts to back up our claims.

LL does not. He makes claims and when asked to prove it or even defend it after we have successfully shown him he is wrong, he diverts to personal attacks and other topics.


That is the definition of talking out of ones ass.
 

ModestGamer

Banned
Jun 30, 2010
1,140
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first off define facts ? whose facts, whose version of the facts ?

Is that like when Iran says.

We want Isreal gone

those types of facts?

How about when isreal literally became a state out of another state, overnight. becuase the brits didn;t have anywhere else to put the jews.

How about facts like.

We invaded Iraq so we could fight them there so we don't have to fight them here.

Ahh but we are basically fighting the iranian supported insurgents in Iraq.

But lets not forget our boy bin Laden. afterall he is a relative of the suadi royal family and we trained him with our CIA.

Like facts like those ?

or facts like.

MSNBC say 63% of american hate suasage ?

which facts are you reffering to?? just so I am clear hear.

You see, we have facts to back up our claims.

LL does not. He makes claims and when asked to prove it or even defend it after we have successfully shown him he is wrong, he diverts to personal attacks and other topics.


That is the definition of talking out of ones ass.
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,510
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first off define facts ? whose facts, whose version of the facts ?

Is that like when Iran says.

We want Isreal gone

those types of facts?

that fact is proven in plenty of videos of achmendejad speaking.

How about when isreal literally became a state out of another state, overnight. becuase the brits didn;t have anywhere else to put the jews.

How about facts like.


ignorance. the land today known as israel had massive amounts of jewish immigration into the region before, during, and after WWII. Jews were there reguardless

We invaded Iraq so we could fight them there so we don't have to fight them here.

your point being? would I rather have buildings here blown up or half way around the world.

Ahh but we are basically fighting the iranian supported insurgents in Iraq.

this is known.

But lets not forget our boy bin Laden. afterall he is a relative of the suadi royal family and we trained him with our CIA.

this is known too

Like facts like those ?

or facts like.

MSNBC say 63% of american hate suasage ?

which facts are you reffering to?? just so I am clear hear.



Facts that are proven with plenty of sources. Those are the facts I tell