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Obama quits his Church...

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Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
0
Originally posted by: brencat
Originally posted by: Robor
It almost seems like this church staged this last incident as a 'you're with us or you're against us' stance to test his loyalty.
Agree with this observation. Weird though they seem not to care about making it more difficult for him to win.
What does Trinity care of Obama wins? This is nothing but a publicity stunt for them. IMO all they and any other church cares about is promoting themselves.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
4
0
Originally posted by: Robor
Originally posted by: brencat
Originally posted by: Robor
It almost seems like this church staged this last incident as a 'you're with us or you're against us' stance to test his loyalty.
Agree with this observation. Weird though they seem not to care about making it more difficult for him to win.
What does Trinity care of Obama wins? This is nothing but a publicity stunt for them. IMO all they and any other church cares about is promoting themselves.
The fact that the President of the United States attends your church would be one hell of a way to promote ones self.
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Robor
Originally posted by: brencat
Originally posted by: Robor
It almost seems like this church staged this last incident as a 'you're with us or you're against us' stance to test his loyalty.
Agree with this observation. Weird though they seem not to care about making it more difficult for him to win.
What does Trinity care of Obama wins? This is nothing but a publicity stunt for them. IMO all they and any other church cares about is promoting themselves.
The fact that the President of the United States attends your church would be one hell of a way to promote ones self.
Yeah, so they deliberately begin making massively public displays of stupidity in order to do that. :confused:
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,363
3,485
126
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: sandorski
So far, every criticism levelled against Wright has had a totally different meaning than what he was accused of saying.
Proof?

Originally posted by: sandorski
So I ask again, what context was such a staement said?
You never asked me directly for context. You said you would like to see the context. So if thats the case, feel free to start searching.
Nah, go ahead and quit avoiding it.
What a weak argument. You know you never asked me directly for the context.
So what? It's your claim, prove it. Blogs, hit pieces, Editorials need not apply. Full Transcript or Video preferred.

We both know there is no full transcript or video of the sermon on the internet.
We do? I guess you do. So I suppose that makes your accusation unverifiable. Quite convenient.
If there were a full transcript of what he said in that sermon, someone would have already gone through it to try to prove that the comment was out of context.

We've all heard the soundbite of him claiming the US invented AIDS to put genocide on black people. We've all heard him defend it at the National Press Club. No need for context.
Who is "we"? Not I. Anyway, just watched 8 Videos from the NPC and heard only 1 mention of Aids and it was nothing close to your alleged quote.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
4
0
?The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.?
What type of context do you need that to be in for it to be acceptable?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
67,310
4,006
126
One way to solve the problem of horse flies following you out of the barn all the time is to burn it down. The preachers there got a smell of cameras and attention and thought they'd start a stand up comic act. Look at me, look at me me me me me.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Put yourself in the shoes of a preacher.
IF he is sincere then he believes what the little voice in his ear is saying comes from God. IF he hears nothing but concludes one thing or another so long as it don't conflict with his church's dogma then it must be a revelation given him by God.
IF he has lived under the pressure of being of color subjected to or witnessed or grew up believing a myriad of issues some true some false and all denied you might take advantage of the spot light to enlighten folks too distant from the source about the reality of life in his shoes. Or the shoes of similarly stead folks... Perhaps
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
67,310
4,006
126
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Put yourself in the shoes of a preacher.
IF he is sincere then he believes what the little voice in his ear is saying comes from God. IF he hears nothing but concludes one thing or another so long as it don't conflict with his church's dogma then it must be a revelation given him by God.
IF he has lived under the pressure of being of color subjected to or witnessed or grew up believing a myriad of issues some true some false and all denied you might take advantage of the spot light to enlighten folks too distant from the source about the reality of life in his shoes. Or the shoes of similarly stead folks... Perhaps
Then again you might not if there were on the scene a hopeful messenger of change who came from your church and might accomplish more good then you or your church alone could ever do and by sounding off with inflammatory rhetoric you stabbed that hope in the back. God, I should think, would look around and judge the context and effect of any real message he whispers in your ear, or so I would hope.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Put yourself in the shoes of a preacher.
IF he is sincere then he believes what the little voice in his ear is saying comes from God. IF he hears nothing but concludes one thing or another so long as it don't conflict with his church's dogma then it must be a revelation given him by God.
IF he has lived under the pressure of being of color subjected to or witnessed or grew up believing a myriad of issues some true some false and all denied you might take advantage of the spot light to enlighten folks too distant from the source about the reality of life in his shoes. Or the shoes of similarly stead folks... Perhaps
Then again you might not if there were on the scene a hopeful messenger of change who came from your church and might accomplish more good then you or your church alone could ever do and by sounding off with inflammatory rhetoric you stabbed that hope in the back. God, I should think, would look around and judge the context and effect of any real message he whispers in your ear, or so I would hope.
Seems to me folks hear just about exactly what they want to hear. Sorta like Deja Vu... Your mind enables you to know you've seen it before but it ain't possible .. ah.. a video from God.. wonder what the message could be...

When folks invoke God into their thinking I figure they assume the will of God carries the day what ever that may be... Your hopeful messenger of change might be Clinton or McCain or even Obama who knows.. but change will occur not matter what the preacher said or didn't say... the sides will find a way to insure even the most peace loving notion will be seen as a war mongering diatribe.

 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,531
3
0
Originally posted by: brencat
I go to church every week, including if I'm on vacation. Prior to me getting married 11 yrs ago, I was a holiday Catholic so my wife was definitely a positive influence on my life. With that out of the way, let me say to Hafen that you're right...what Pfleger said about Hillary was damn funny if you like sexist humor and my 'racist' sermons comment was directed more at Wright and all the stuff being held onto that will likely be released by the dirt-digging groups in the coming months before the election.

But both preachers styles and content are totally alien to what I'm used to in Catholic masses -- and wholly inappropriate too. And what most other Protestants/Catholics are used to I'm betting which covers about 55 - 60% of the U.S. population right there. I have a problem with a guy who wants to be president that doesn't have the sense to walk out of that relationship years earlier. I wouldn't have that problem if he wasn't running for a high-level public office. Double standard? You betcha...and an important one too.
Yeah Obama underestimated the desperation of his opponents going after him because of the Church he attended.
 

Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
3,074
0
76
Originally posted by: Robor
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Robor
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Robor
No. You called homosexuality a 'sin' in another thread. You used your faith to defend that belief. Why is the bigotry preached in another church different than the bigotry preached in yours?

It's not. You're both wrong.

Edit: I forgot to say YOU'RE A HYPOCRITICAL TOOL again.
Believing something is a sin is not bigotry.
Meh. I believe your beliefs are a sin. And I seriously mean that as an agnostic.

edit: got my words out of place :p
Thats fine with me. I believe what the Bible says.
Everything or just what you pick and choose to interpret and apply to here and now?
Everything. Of course, there are hermeneutics for a reason.
 

Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
3,074
0
76
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: brencat
I go to church every week, including if I'm on vacation. Prior to me getting married 11 yrs ago, I was a holiday Catholic so my wife was definitely a positive influence on my life. With that out of the way, let me say to Hafen that you're right...what Pfleger said about Hillary was damn funny if you like sexist humor and my 'racist' sermons comment was directed more at Wright and all the stuff being held onto that will likely be released by the dirt-digging groups in the coming months before the election.

But both preachers styles and content are totally alien to what I'm used to in Catholic masses -- and wholly inappropriate too. And what most other Protestants/Catholics are used to I'm betting which covers about 55 - 60% of the U.S. population right there. I have a problem with a guy who wants to be president that doesn't have the sense to walk out of that relationship years earlier. I wouldn't have that problem if he wasn't running for a high-level public office. Double standard? You betcha...and an important one too.
Yeah Obama underestimated the desperation of his opponents going after him because of the Church he attended.
Well when you base your campaign on "judgement" you are going to get nailed on anything that shows bad judgement. This would be one of them. A bad judgement call he made for over 20 years.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,531
3
0
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: brencat
I go to church every week, including if I'm on vacation. Prior to me getting married 11 yrs ago, I was a holiday Catholic so my wife was definitely a positive influence on my life. With that out of the way, let me say to Hafen that you're right...what Pfleger said about Hillary was damn funny if you like sexist humor and my 'racist' sermons comment was directed more at Wright and all the stuff being held onto that will likely be released by the dirt-digging groups in the coming months before the election.

But both preachers styles and content are totally alien to what I'm used to in Catholic masses -- and wholly inappropriate too. And what most other Protestants/Catholics are used to I'm betting which covers about 55 - 60% of the U.S. population right there. I have a problem with a guy who wants to be president that doesn't have the sense to walk out of that relationship years earlier. I wouldn't have that problem if he wasn't running for a high-level public office. Double standard? You betcha...and an important one too.
Yeah Obama underestimated the desperation of his opponents going after him because of the Church he attended.
Well when you base your campaign on "judgement" you are going to get nailed on anything that shows bad judgement. This would be one of them. A bad judgement call he made for over 20 years.
What's so bad about it? Is it because it's Priest has made social commentaries that you don't agree with? How about the other stuff, you know, the shit about Jesus and being saved and helping you fellow man and the charities it runs and all that which is 99% of what it's about. Do you agree with that stuff?
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,501
1
81
Originally posted by: sandorski
I still maintain that there was nothing wrong with what Wright said. Obviously it was being used as a distraction and Obama did the right thing in removing that distraction. Perhaps the issues will be discussed now?....but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.
I did not give what Mr Obama's minister said that much thought. Since Mr Obama, not Mr Wright, is running for President, I only care about what he thinks, says, and does.

But if people who oppose Mr Obama want to make a big deal out of this....Good luck with that.

The ISSUE in this election is:

Are you happy with the direction the US is headed?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,363
3,485
126
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
?The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.?
What type of context do you need that to be in for it to be acceptable?
The context in which it was said.
 

Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
3,074
0
76
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
What's so bad about it? Is it because it's Priest has made social commentaries that you don't agree with?
What Trinity has shown is a pattern of making controversial statements about race and government. Neither are something that should be screamed about on a Sunday morning from a Church platform.

What Obama has shown is a pattern of making excuses for whom he associated with from that Church, then backing out of those excuses and throwing them under the bus when he realized it was hurting his chances of being the next President.

Not only does it show poor judgement, which Obama has run his whole campaign on, it also shows that even though he claims he is somehow transcending old politics, he right there in the middle of it.

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
How about the other stuff, you know, the shit about Jesus and being saved and helping you fellow man and the charities it runs and all that which is 99% of what it's about. Do you agree with that stuff?
All of that is great, and what a church should be about. The problem here is that the church seems to be more concerned with making racially and polically charged comments, rather than doing that which you suggest.
 

Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
3,074
0
76
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
?The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.?
What type of context do you need that to be in for it to be acceptable?
The context in which it was said.
Nobody here is claiming it is out of context except you. Therfore, the burden of proof is on you to prove it is out of context.
 

spaceman

Lifer
Dec 4, 2000
17,502
92
91
the healing can begin now.
hope change heal appeal deal jessica biel.
obama was for the church before he was against it
the chrysalis is hardening.
maybe he should declare himself his own god now, his flock just about has.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,531
3
0
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
What's so bad about it? Is it because it's Priest has made social commentaries that you don't agree with?
What Trinity has shown is a pattern of making controversial statements about race and government. Neither are something that should be screamed about on a Sunday morning from a Church platform.

What Obama has shown is a pattern of making excuses for whom he associated with from that Church, then backing out of those excuses and throwing them under the bus when he realized it was hurting his chances of being the next President.

Not only does it show poor judgement, which Obama has run his whole campaign on, it also shows that even though he claims he is somehow transcending old politics, he right there in the middle of it.

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
How about the other stuff, you know, the shit about Jesus and being saved and helping you fellow man and the charities it runs and all that which is 99% of what it's about. Do you agree with that stuff?
All of that is great, and what a church should be about. The problem here is that the church seems to be more concerned with making racially and polically charged comments, rather than doing that which you suggest.
Can you prove that the church is more concerned about making racially and politically charged comments than spreading the gospel?

Not that it matters to me, I think the vast majority of candidates go to church just to give the impression that they believe in that bullshit as there's zero chance an Atheist or Agnostic will get elected in this day and age
 

Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
3,074
0
76
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Can you prove that the church is more concerned about making racially and politically charged comments than spreading the gospel?
Seriously, you are going to skip all the stuff I said in the first part of that and jump right to making me prove something?

No, I can't prove it, and thats why I said "it seems like it".
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,531
3
0
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Can you prove that the church is more concerned about making racially and politically charged comments than spreading the gospel?
No, and thats why I said "it seems like it".
Or more precise, you guys make it seem like it.

 

Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
3,074
0
76
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Can you prove that the church is more concerned about making racially and politically charged comments than spreading the gospel?
No, and thats why I said "it seems like it".
Or more precise, you guys make it seem like it.
Seriously, you are going to skip all the stuff I said in the first part of my post and jump right to making me prove something?

What Trinity has shown is a pattern of making controversial statements about race and government. Neither are something that should be screamed about on a Sunday morning from a Church platform.

What Obama has shown is a pattern of making excuses for whom he associated with from that Church, then backing out of those excuses and throwing them under the bus when he realized it was hurting his chances of being the next President.

Not only does it show poor judgement, which Obama has run his whole campaign on, it also shows that even though he claims he is somehow transcending old politics, he right there in the middle of it.

To whom much is given, much is required. Wright has failed that. He may have done some good things, but overall, his hateful rehtoric overshadows anything good he has done.
 

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