Obama proposes removal of tax breaks from oil companies in the US

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
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Wow this is about the dumbest move to make in a down economy which is limping along and struggling to recover. Even if his proposal fails, speculators in the market are going to be pushing gas prices higher due to these statements.


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2012/03/17/national/w030159D97.DTL&tsp=1

Obama to Congress: Kill oil industry's tax breaks


(03-17) 13:17 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) --

Pump prices on his mind, President Barack Obama says Congress should kill tax breaks for the oil and gas industry and help develop alternative sources of energy.

Obama said Saturday in his weekly radio and Internet address that he expected Congress to consider in the next few weeks ending $4 billion in tax subsidies, a move he has failed to persuade lawmakers to make during his term. He said the vote would put them on record on whether they "stand up for oil companies" or "stand up for the American people."

"They can either place their bets on a fossil fuel from the last century or they can place their bets on America's future," Obama said.

Industry officials and many Republicans in Congress contend that cutting the tax breaks would lead to higher fuel prices, raising costs on oil companies and affecting their investments in exploration and production. The measure is considered a long shot, given that Obama couldn't end the subsidies when Democrats controlled Congress earlier in his term.

Republican presidential candidates have accused Obama of delaying drilling for oil in the Gulf of Mexico and in a national wildlife refuge in Alaska and faulted him for not advancing the Keystone XL oil pipeline from Canada to Texas Gulf Coast refineries. They have also criticized policies pursued by the Environmental Protection Agency as inhibiting energy development.

Obama said there is no quick fix to high gas prices, which climbed to $3.83 on Friday according to AAA, but he pushed back against critics who say he is opposed to more drilling. He said the U.S. is producing more oil than at any time in the past eight years and has quadrupled the number of operating oil rigs.

"If we're truly going to make sure we're not at the mercy of spikes in gas prices every year, the answer isn't just to drill more — because we're already drilling more," Obama said. He said his administration was trying to develop wind and solar power, biofuels and usher in more fuel-efficient vehicles to make the nation less dependent on oil.

In the weekly Republican address, Rep. Cory Gardner, R-Colo., said his constituents have been hard hit by an increase in gasoline prices and were "fed up with the way the president is handling this issue, and rightfully so. The most forceful thing the president has done about high gas prices is try to explain that he's against them."

Gardner said the $800 billion stimulus spending sought by Obama promoted energy companies that went bankrupt, wasting taxpayer money.

"After spending money we don't have on what won't work — and overregulating what would — is it any wonder gas prices have more than doubled on the president's watch? Make no mistake, high gas prices are a symptom of his failed `stimulus' policies," Gardner said.

Obama is expected to keep up a drumbeat on energy this week, traveling to four states over two days to push his administration's "all of the above" energy strategy. The trip includes stops in Nevada, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Ohio.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,076
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This is not surprising and a good and fair move. Last year oil companies enjoyed record profits with lucrative tax breaks whilst the american people were flustering at the rising price of gas. Companies that are making record profits don't need lucrative tax deals.

BTW that Gardner guy is a moron. His logic is the same sort of logic that claims that the drop off in the number of pirates parallels the rise in world temperatures, therefore we need more pirates to stave off global warming.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,470
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What's so bad about striving for energy independece? Why, it's going to hurt the profit margins of big oil directly of course, unless that industry is forcefully dragged into investing in alternative sources.

So why not specifically target these tax breaks and subsidies that are already in existence toward developing alternative energy sources rather than toward stuffing the pockets of oil executives with even more tax $$?
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
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They shouldn't get negative taxes, but he shouldn't take away their deductions either. I don't like how he would put that money into new spending for a nationally alternative energy.

The government still makes more money from gasoline than the gasoline companies do and even if their profits were double last year, they still don't make 18 cents per gallon like the government does.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
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They shouldn't get negative taxes, but he shouldn't take away their deductions either. I don't like how he would put that money into new spending for a nationally alternative energy.

The government still makes more money from gasoline than the gasoline companies do and even if their profits were double last year, they still don't make 18 cents per gallon like the government does.

WTF. You're for a free market. Hypocrite.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
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I see this as a good thing... :) What's not to like?

If you don't like oil because it hurts the spirit of mother Gia then you're 100% right.

If you've not dropped dope in a few years you might think that high oil prices are the opposite of what a recovering economy needs.
 

ky54

Senior member
Mar 30, 2010
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Well, this should lower the price of gas, right? After all isn't that what the president said he wants to do?
 

boochi

Senior member
May 21, 2011
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Effective-Tax-Rates-By-Industry.png


It looks like the oil companies are paying more than their fair share. Removing these tax breaks will just get passed on in the form of higher prices at the pumps. This is just another example of how out of touch this president is with reality. Oil companies have share holders and they are going to get their profit one way or another.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,684
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Effective-Tax-Rates-By-Industry.png


It looks like the oil companies are paying more than their fair share. Removing these tax breaks will just get passed on in the form of higher prices at the pumps. This is just another example of how out of touch this president is with reality. Oil companies have share holders and they are going to get their profit one way or another.

You trust industry numbers? Really?
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
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Effective-Tax-Rates-By-Industry.png


It looks like the oil companies are paying more than their fair share. Removing these tax breaks will just get passed on in the form of higher prices at the pumps. This is just another example of how out of touch this president is with reality. Oil companies have share holders and they are going to get their profit one way or another.

How much do oil companies really pay in taxes?

Exxon Mobil counts everything — not just federal income taxes, but also local property taxes, state taxes, gasoline taxes and payroll taxes. The Center for American Progress (CAP) and other analysts count only the company’s federal corporate income taxes.

But Exxon Mobil’s tax rate is “lower than the average American’s,” Daniel Weiss, an energy expert at CAP, countered in an analysis that put the company’s U.S. federal income tax rate in 2010 at just 17.2 percent.
 

boochi

Senior member
May 21, 2011
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We can argue all day about who's numbers are right and wrong but neither side can argue the fact that raising taxes on oil companies will result in higher gas prices. Anything you take away from oil companies will be compensated for by higher prices at the pump. This is the case with any industry as the government can not regulate the cost of most goods and services.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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We can argue all day about who's numbers are right and wrong but neither side can argue the fact that raising taxes on oil companies will result in higher gas prices. Anything you take away from oil companies will be compensated for by higher prices at the pump. This is the case with any industry as the government can not regulate the cost of most goods and services.

Not necessarily true at all, unless you're asserting monopolistic pricing and low profits in the first place...

The first is debatable, and the second obviously untrue.
 

ky54

Senior member
Mar 30, 2010
532
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Not necessarily true at all, unless you're asserting monopolistic pricing and low profits in the first place...

The first is debatable, and the second obviously untrue.

At what rate should oil companies be charged at?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,278
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We can argue all day about who's numbers are right and wrong but neither side can argue the fact that raising taxes on oil companies will result in higher gas prices. Anything you take away from oil companies will be compensated for by higher prices at the pump. This is the case with any industry as the government can not regulate the cost of most goods and services.

Even if what you wrote wasn't hilariously false, who cares? If low gas prices is what we want, why don't we directly subsidize gas prices instead of indirectly throwing cash at oil companies and just hoping that it somehow trickles down?

I always love hearing about the Mythical Untaxable Corporation though, so please continue.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
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We can argue all day about who's numbers are right and wrong but neither side can argue the fact that raising taxes on oil companies will result in higher gas prices. Anything you take away from oil companies will be compensated for by higher prices at the pump. This is the case with any industry as the government can not regulate the cost of most goods and services.

So why the complaining about removing the tax breaks? Your argument is that we pay either way, so why not pay directly at the pump?

If we pay the cost in gas prices instead of through taxes, there would be increased incentive to develop lower cost alternatives and increase fuel efficiency in vehicles. And while right now I subsidize the oil industry exactly the same as someone with a giant truck who lives 40 miles from work, removing the subsidies and the resulting rise in gas prices would result in personal costs being even more tied to consumption.

Basically it's the free market at work...I don't get why conservatives would be opposed to this.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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And what is the rate YOU would charge? Why is it so hard to answer?

Because it's a pointless question? You can't randomly choose tax rates for one specific group in a total vacuum.

But if it's such an easy question to answer, what's YOUR answer?
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
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Someone farts in the middle east and prices go up for no logical reason at all, but the threat and/or implementation of taxes on oil companies won't have the same effect? :D

Fix the "no skin in the game" speculators problem first, then do what you have to do with the oil companies.
 

Ronstang

Lifer
Jul 8, 2000
12,493
18
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You trust industry numbers? Really?

Do you trust peer reviewed science? Really?

Don't bother answering. I know the answer. Scientists are all good and honest and above reproach and those in industry are evil liars and thieves.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,076
2,635
136
Someone farts in the middle east and prices go up for no logical reason at all, but the threat and/or implementation of taxes on oil companies won't have the same effect? :D

Fix the "no skin in the game" speculators problem first, then do what you have to do with the oil companies.

Yeah but what if that tax money was put into "say nuclear power" to where we weren't as susceptible to such changes in the middle east? Nuclear power of course being the best possible, yet highly unlikely due to fear mongering and stiff opposition from the oil/gas industry, but work with me here.
 

Generator

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
793
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The right wing is rife with hypocrisy. Give anything a few years and they'll be on the other side of it. These tax credits for oil are a prime example. If they were in power they would trickle down, more like piss on the plebs with the new talking points in favor of doing exactly what Obama is trying to accomplish.

The fact of the matter is that Obama has got these tax breaks for oil stuck in his craw for a while now. The President isn't allowed to show that kind of initiative unless Walstreet handed him is orders. The only thing more pathetic than that is that the Republicans are always willing to bend over backwards to dote on those moneyed interests.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
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You guys always fall for the "US federal income tax rate" distortions. Most oil companies are transnational and US based oil companies have the highest effective tax rates in the universe. They pay the most cash taxes of all companies out there. Go read a 10-K instead of reading cherry picked data by liberal "journalists" with an agenda.

This is all smoke and mirrors. There's no such thing as "oil tax breaks." I bet you guys can't cite one of these supposed oil industry only tax breaks. There are a couple obscure ones (which I've posted here before) let's see if you guys can find them and interpret it.

Edit: I found the thread. There are no oil industry specific tax breaks.
 
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SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81
Remove the tax breaks. Increase tariffs on import and export of energy. Make it more profitable for energy companies to run in the US for the US.

Tax breaks should come in the form of home improvement projects that help reduce energy usage, and optimizations to transportation.