Obama - Poll

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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Kennedy was a different type of Democrat from a different era.

The Democrats of today don?t even come close to the Democrats of those days. That is why so many of the people around Reagan were ex-Democrats.

As for Obama I would expect him to be better than Carter. But I could see him turning into a ?failed? President. He is too inexperienced in so many ways. This means he will have to rely on the advice of others when he gets into office and coming from the liberal wing of the Democratic Party the people giving him advice are going to be liberal Democrats.

And the last time liberal Democrats totally ran the country was under Carter and we see how that turned out.

That's the right-wng spin for a democratic president they just can't beat - rewrite history.

PJ has shown many times his lack of accurate knowledge of the Kennedy years, and has had his inaccurate claims disproven, but he keeps it up.

He's right about one thing - the times were somewhat different at the height of the cold war limiting Kennedy's options for his policies.

What he was able to do was remarkable considering those limitations.

At the time, something like pursuing a treaty to reduce nuclear testing was a *radical* move to the left.

The right just tends to worship power; in a cowardly manner, they'll try to put themselves with their powerful enemies, and they'll attack the weaker enemies they can.

I can show examples of Kennedy (effectively) and Carter (ineffectively) prioritizing human rights in our forieign policy; the right will mostly say very different things about each, not because the goals were different, but because they are not honest enough to attack the policies widely considered successfull usually, only the ones they can safely pile on.

They'll try to claim Kennedy's policies for their own by emphasizing the elements they agree with and overlooking the ones they don't, while they'll attack Carter's for the same things they just overlooked with Kennedy, and ignore the things Carter did they might agree with.

For example, as I iindicated in the previous post, who appointed the 'tough love' Fed Chairman Paul Volcker who is widely credited with getting inflation down, and was re-appointed by Reagan? Carter did, and he took the huge heat at the time - there was huge criticism of Volcker and Carter's appointment of him while he cause the pain that helped reduce inflation, and the praise came for Reagan later when the inflation rate was down.

How do Republicans describe that history? With zero credit for Carter, and all the credit for Reagan, of course.

Kennedy cut taxes (from 90% to 70% top rate), and he also battled the steel industry.

Look at how the right deals with the history - because Kennedy is someone they can't defeat, they are dishonest, and cherry pick that he cut taxes, and ignore that the *target* his curs led to was a 70% top rate (how about we go back to the Kennedy policy there?), and they *never* praise his battle with the steel industry. They simply cherry pick 'he cut taxes' and pretend he was someone else, to avoid the inconvenient facts that it's their ideology that's lacking, not the current democrats.

It's a cowardly, dishonest, way to deal with the history, and it leads to wrong conclusions on policy.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: loki8481
my guess is Carter, but we won't find out till he wins in November. :)

he's created a myth of himself that will be impossible to live up to.

I agree. The parralells are already evident.
 

Skitzer

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2000
4,414
3
81
His hands will be tied by Congress.
You can't do all the things he says he wants to do without the assistance and approval of Congress unfortunately.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Neither.

As said above Carter was a micro-manager. Obama ain't.

Kennedy wasn't all that popular until after his death. Nor do I see Obama as leading a glitzy White House (Camelot etc). Michelle Obama doesn't seem anything Jackie-O etc.

I think he'll blaze his own unique path as a President.

Fern
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Fern
Kennedy wasn't all that popular until after his death.
Fern

Oh, really?

Looks about the highest average of any president since the chart begins with Truman.

How can we discuss political issues when so many posts are needed just to correct the right-wing posters, cleaning up their messes?
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
3
81
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Stupid poll.

First, Kennedy was an excellent statesman who actually consulted and listened to Eisenhower, and he matured steadily throughout his short Presidency. He was deeply flawed, but one of our great historic Presidents. It's fairly easy to see that with almost anyone else at the helm, the CMC might have become WW3.

Second, Carter was not NEAR as bad as the naysayers like to say. He inherited a shitty economy and wobbly foreign situations, and did little to either better them or worsen them. Blaming Carter for the crappy economy of the time is like blaming Bush for the post-9/11 dip. It's unrealistic at best, and pure political opportunism at worst (ie; I'm a Republican and I want to sh*t on Carter because he was a Dem). Carter had a remarkable Navy career, and has worked tirelessly for humanitarian causes for decades. I'd honestly take Carter over fuckwads like GWB or LBJ any day of the week, month, year, or lifetime.

Obama will probably be much different than anyone who's come before, partly by internal personal reasons (things that make Obama unique), and partly by external reasons (mood of the country, the opposing party's willingness to compromise or not, foreign situations that need attention)

We won't really know until (A)- He's the Dem candidate, (B)- He beats McCain, and (C)- He proves his relative worth during his term(s).

OP, you need to add "neither" to your poll.

I have little idea what an Obama presidency will be lilke. But hopefully it wiil be a move away from Bush's policies.

 

rockyct

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2001
6,656
32
91
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Fern
Kennedy wasn't all that popular until after his death. really?
Fern

Oh, really?

Looks about the highest average of any president since the chart begins with Truman.

How can we discuss political issues when so many posts are needed just to correct the right-wing posters, cleaning up their messes?

Maybe he's thinking about Lincoln.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
Originally posted by: Robor
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: FoBoT
i don't believe any human has the ability to be worse than carter as POTUS

i'll have to go look up what all great things kennedy did, he is so revered, but other than getting killed and the cuban missile crisis, which he handled very well, i don't know what made kennedy "great"

He poked Marilyn Monroe

Who was an overrated bimbo. You want a hot woman from that era? Look at Sophia Loren.
Sophia Loren was hot too, but there was nothing overrated about Monroe, she was friggin tight in Some like it hot.

 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Fern
Kennedy wasn't all that popular until after his death.
Fern

Oh, really?

Looks about the highest average of any president since the chart begins with Truman.

How can we discuss political issues when so many posts are needed just to correct the right-wing posters, cleaning up their messes?

Funny how there's really only one president on that chart that essentially trends upward during his term...